M1021 - Blessings of Lilia - GAME THREAD [hidden]

[celaph]

At EoD2 I was really surprised to see that Bona ended up being the second cw. It felt like at most two people thought that he was scum and were actively discussing him: Sabi+Jamie. Maniac had an incredibly weak scum read contingent on scum Jamie and Damo was throwing out his name a lot, but entirely because Bona was in Damo's POE and not because Damo had a solid scumread on the slot.

This makes me think that Bona is scum if and only if we have multiple scum bussing him. Otherwise, I feel like people would be talking about it more to try and get their teammate saved.

[Kakarroto]

For those voting me look at D1 voting.

With 13 minutes to go the votes were me 6, town aaro 4, town durga 2. I switched from aaro to durga. Why would I do that as scum?

-) revitalise any suppressed intentions to vote durga so people get off of you
-) muddy the VCA in case you get flipped

looking at D2 votes I find the following of interest:

5 minutes out Maniac voted Bona making it Bona 3 Kak 2 aaro 2 me 2

Subsequently DL moved from Kak to aaro and TFB moved from me to aaro.

Could either or both of these been to protect Bona?

I think Bona is the right kill for today. If he flips scum then strongly consider TFB next.

sure, maybe, but
-) I doubt bona and boat are one a maf team together this game
-) in the highly likely case you are mafia your teammate(s) could've just tried to prevent any last minute shenanigans to vote you out by making aaro the biggest wagon since there were less drive for bona than for aaro

[Kakarroto]

Maniac has not done a great deal I am ready to admit but the reasons I think he is town are:

Firstly, his unvote from me. I know this won't look as significant to others ignorant of my alignment but I have the advantage of knowing I am town so this makes it very towny in my eyes. Remember he also correctly townread Snowy in that post.

Secondly his vote his vote from Unvote to Jamie 27 minutes from EOD2 when the votes were Maniac 3 Aaro 3 Kak 2 me 2. Hardly the move of a scumbag is it? He correctly didn't vote for town aaro when he could easily have done so, neither did he vote for Kak.

Another post I liked though I'm not so sure I agree with it is his post townreading Pyxxy for the way Pyxxy introduced a wall post. [I guess there is a slim chance of PyxxyManiac scum pair but I disregard that for now.]

Why, the holy macaroni, would you, who has been advocating my flip thoughout the game (*), think, that maniac not voting me, is towny? Why? WHY?


(*)

If Kak is town, then I think that Damo is very likely town.

The main point here is that Kak is being let lurk which either means that he is scum or that scum are happy to have him around. However, if Damo is scum then starting early on in D2 scum are looking to get Damo to safety with a good counterwagon. A lot of people expressed D1 hesitations with Kak's posting style so at the very least they should pressure him to see if they can make that an option.

Can you clarify what your take on ne would be if Kak flips scum please.

I have been advocating a Kak flip throughout the game.

Btw your first sentence 2nd para is kinda obvious. Kak was never gonna be a NK was he?

also, correction: you have been advocating my flip only after I asked you about your vote on durga and your change to vote bona

[pyxxy]

No, but why make this gun claim at all if he was scum and had no gun?

You're only answering why he'd claim to aim at Damo.

What is the scum motivation for the claim in the first place?

....I don't know. Because it looks towny?

##UNVOTE

Can't in good faith keep my vote up if I can't answer this question satisfactorily.

[pyxxy]

Speak of the devil! Kak's still alive.

[Kakarroto]

celaph, maniac and I are the ones that have very long periods without posting, probably due to different circumstances, celaph I give you having him at town with the post quality and stuff, but maniac where had maniac offered his own opinions? where is his drive or follow-up, where is his engagement in hunting? I've made my opinions clear, especially compared to what maniac posted, taking both next to each other just reads as glorifying maniac and smearing me. in case that's not what you are doing, you should have another look at us. I'm pretty sure if you compare us you'll see that too.

also it's not really what you posted, it's you first posted a read list hours before the end (which okish if you don't have time afterwards/has to go to sleep/something like that, but every early information before EoN helps mafia to find the best target in the night) but then still engage in the night, it's like you didn't fear to be the target at night. It's not like you missed the time like some clock-incompetent Austrian. Yeah you said something before of school and things, but you still could've saved it in a draft and send it later in a break closer to EoN, right? You posted an hour and a half after your readlist again. Before all that I expected either you, celaph or snowy to be the target, so why weren't you more concerned?

1. at that point your contributions had been an EON1 reads list where every read except the damo one was hedged ("they could be scum, but they could also be town!"), a few questions to damo, and a few other questions that honestly seemed pretty neutral. That's really easily faked as scum since you don't need to commit to specific positions to ask questions, and you never seem especially interested in convincing other people to vote damo (e.g. when you ask me if I townread damo, I reply, and then you leave for a day). Even now, you seem way more interested in judging us for not voting damo than actually pushing damo.

Compare this to maniac, who has obviously posted way less content but has committed openly to townreads on pyxxy and damo, on his entire wagon, reasoned scumreads on jamie/bona, and at least tried to get people on jamie late.

2. I wasn't online at EON and made the last few posts from class, which I didn't know I would have time to send. I'd imagine this "scumtell" is basically NAI if you analyze past games with it, and the fact that you're especially worried that damo, who I would bet actual money on never being nightkilled this game, would post reads early is kinda weird to me.

-) my reads as town are often rated hedged by many people, especially day one. Normally I try to compensate that but this game I couldn't do that and just gave them in an unfiltered way. I'm surprised though that you still think I contributed so less and maniac so much, it really seems like you are defending maniac from any possible attack. I'm sure I've done more than maniac and you are just conveniently forgetting stuff I did.

-) maybe I'm wrong about that ... but it's still a fact that giving mafia detailed insight before their night action isn't a good thing for town

[Bonatogether]

30 hours since kak posted.

Kouncil needs to change participation requirements to 3 or 5 post every 24 hours because this is silly.

thumbs down

Why are you thumbs downing. Look at the game.

Tell me how this amount of participation isn't hurting the game?

It's not optimal, but asking 3 or 5 posts every 24 hours isn't a better solution, imo, cause sometimes people have things come up that preoccupy them for 24 hours or so. It's not bad, it's just a fact of how things happen.

[celaph]

What are people's opinions on Jamie and Sabi?

[Bonatogether]

What are people's opinions on Jamie and Sabi?

jamie feels town but i'm terrible at reading him so that doesn't mean much

sabi is borderline unreadable due to their new posting scheme

[Kakarroto]

Can you clarify what your take on ne would be if Kak flips scum please.

I have been advocating a Kak flip throughout the game.

Btw your first sentence 2nd para is kinda obvious. Kak was never gonna be a NK was he?

I agree that the first sentence to the second paragraph is obvious. I just think that it was worth repeating given the relevance to the following argument.

I think scum Kak says a lot less about your alignment than town Kak does though I think on the whole. I think on the whole it's probably a slight boost for you -- though if both Kak flips results in you looking townier than I should just adjust my default read pre-Kak flip. Scum Kak means that we have to play the game of whether you were distancing/bussing or caught him.

Can't win can I lol?

If kak flips scum I was right (helped catch him) if he flips town then he hasn't been a useful town player. He has voted me throughout so if he is town his read skills are poor.

lets have a thought experiment:

"kak busses hard when he is mafia"
"kak had accurate out of the box guesses from his intuition when he was town the last two games" (calling out bob and maniac maf connection with the bussing, calling out ghug 'bussing' bozo [though he was joat at the time so only 50% clairvoyance])

either way, that would make damo look bad, since I'm town this game (even when there are some that doesn't believe that) I'm not as accurate, but the feeling I had with damo voting durga was the same as I had with ghug and bob at the games. damo also didn't do a thing to make me get of this thought, quite contrary, he behaved more like mafia would do. Do I have to remind you he outed our only pr?

Now, if you don't believe me, fine, vote me out today, might be fine to get that all across to you. But it would be much better to get damo.

And in case damo is town too? I guess we both had made mistakes this game and didn't play well. Then I recommend to look at the players that most think are looking town. Especially DL comes to mind for me with his insistence that maniac is practically obvious town. Might be trying to protect a teammate, might be to get points from one that has barely anyone on his side.

I feel the same about bona btw, I'm afraid he might be mafia and shouts all the time I'm town to get me on his good side, though at this point I think I have accepted it for what it is and check after the game if it was correct to trust bona and he can read me (so I have to nk him when I'm mafia again) or I was blinded by him.

[Kakarroto]

Where is celaph?

At the Antarctic Research Station with Maniac and Kak.

They are each only allowed to use the internet once every 36 hours, due to a problem with the transmitter.

when it was my turn, comm station was sabotaged and I needed to repair it but the lights got sabotaged too and then when I finally had repaired all of it my time was up

[BesharamSabi]

What are people's opinions on Jamie and Sabi?

jamie feels town but i'm terrible at reading him so that doesn't mean much

sabi is borderline unreadable due to their new posting scheme

What new posting scheme. It's been several days now Bona. Yet new material.

[celaph]

What are people's opinions on Jamie and Sabi?

jamie feels town but i'm terrible at reading him so that doesn't mean much

sabi is borderline unreadable due to their new posting scheme

Besides Damo who are you scum reading?

[Kakarroto]

Speak of the devil! Kak's still alive.

The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.

[BesharamSabi]

thumbs down

Why are you thumbs downing. Look at the game.

Tell me how this amount of participation isn't hurting the game?

It's not optimal, but asking 3 or 5 posts every 24 hours isn't a better solution, imo, cause sometimes people have things come up that preoccupy them for 24 hours or so. It's not bad, it's just a fact of how things happen.

If you don't have time for the game then sub out. People who go more than 24 hours are ruining the game.

[BesharamSabi]

Last time I did 10 post was half way thru day 2. We are at the end of day 3. Why can't Bona read me? Why is he still making an excuse...

[celaph]

Last time I did 10 post was half way thru day 2. We are at the end of day 3. Why can't Bona read me? Why is he still making an excuse...

Two points:
1) We've had 1 EoD since then and it wasn't an EoD that you were particularly active in so he doesn't really have evidence from that perspective.
2) Generally I agree with you that it is a weak answer. In the worst case, Bona should analyze you outside of the context of your previous posting styles. In a vacuum, are your contributions towny or not?

[Kakarroto]

What are people's opinions on Jamie and Sabi?

I don't think I'd vote for Jamie in this game.

Maybe in the extremely unlikely case he is with me in the last three, but I doubt Jamie is mafia. I could've seen an early connection to maniac (or rather I thought I've seen a connection but that might've been just a wrong blip ... maybe both tried to distance from that so it's not impossible ... but more like the probability is as high as an asteroid falling down on me).

Sabi ... I don't think they are mafia. Nearly not as sure as with jamie though, but I think the probability for that is low. I could see Sabi as a third member, maybe, but I haven't seen anything that says mafia there. Even their rush to vote me or try to make me contribute seems to come from a town place.

[BesharamSabi]

What are people's opinions on Jamie and Sabi?

I don't think I'd vote for Jamie in this game.

Maybe in the extremely unlikely case he is with me in the last three, but I doubt Jamie is mafia. I could've seen an early connection to maniac (or rather I thought I've seen a connection but that might've been just a wrong blip ... maybe both tried to distance from that so it's not impossible ... but more like the probability is as high as an asteroid falling down on me).

Sabi ... I don't think they are mafia. Nearly not as sure as with jamie though, but I think the probability for that is low. I could see Sabi as a third member, maybe, but I haven't seen anything that says mafia there. Even their rush to vote me or try to make me contribute seems to come from a town place.

I haven't voted for you iirc. My vote has been switching between Maniac and Bona the whole game tbf.

[BesharamSabi]

I have been the third highest contributor in d3 Bona. Cmon now, don't be lazy.