M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

don't think about the flipper. flipper is there to confuse us.
assume we have killed or will kill the flipper without knowing. at a certain point it doesn't make a difference - if they've survived so long, they're not as effective. if we kill the goon first, then they're 100% useless. let it be - we'll get them eventually

[bozotheclown]

methinks thats a scum flippa but who knows. I still think it had to happen anyway and now we can kill pyxxy and ensure that the kak wagon pool is
empty

Do you think a flipper would pick a miller over a VT?
A miller could easily be outed as the flipper and the strength of the role comes from being a permanent uncertainty as a VT I think.

Not sure
im really just concerned with an endgame with less variables

so if you have these subgroups

day 1 celaph savers: pyxxy

day 1 eod inactives: flum-worc-rivera

day 1 bussers: chaqa, bona, rhk, myself

I think its best to have only two subgroups to be worried about since deciding between bussers and inactives is gonna be enough of a shit show as it is the last thing we want is any outstanding kak voters who may have saved cel

celaph did not have any votes when pyxxy last voted on D1. I think the most suspicious thing about pyxxy is that he waited until celaph had 5 votes D2 to conclude celaph looked like mafia for not posting N1.

[bozotheclown]

Correction:

I would like everyone to please give their top 4 candidates for the last 2 scum spots (although it is at least possible there is only one mafia remaining):

bozo: BusinessLamp, RHK, Sabi, worcej

bona: blamp, bozo, RHK, rdr

Why did you think I might be scum if you thought PE was town?

[bozotheclown]

I don't have as many townreads as I'd like at this point. Sabi seems like town. I'm inclined to townread Eden, which is making me scumread him. I wanted to townread Chaqa for the "because" thing, but if Eden told him to do that before the game, maybe he felt like he had to. He sits in a pool with brain, RHK, Jamie, celaph, snowy of people who seem like their town selves but haven't done anything that's impossible to fake.

Below them are the true nulls: rd, pyxxy, worcej, Bona damo, Maniac. Boat could maybe be in this box too but I'm more inclined to kill him because his wagon's death is sketch. Bozo and lamp also seem like decent killing options. I think that's everyone?

This was ghug's last post N1. He did not act on his idea about DKing TFB D2, despite having the opportunity.

[bozotheclown]

So everyone gets to see how your mind has changed, which tbh is one of the hardest things to track (before the invention of spreadsheets, apparently).

We can just put the N1 post numbers right next to your list too, for emphasis.

- celaph, zero posts
- worcej, 2 posts which somewhat explain his absence
- rivera, the carnival interlude
- Maniac, 3 posts: "Rip Kak", "why I flipped off my own TFB wagon", and "if I die, bury me deep" [ed note: ?????? on the last one]
- damo, 2 posts
- bozo, 3 posts

I hate to be a newbie that just defaults to "kill the low poster" every daytime, especially while I'm still wearing my posting floaties and floundering around in the kiddie pool. But. Zero posts?

From someone that posted at D1 EOD-13, -12, -10, -04, -03, and -01. Yet can't spare a single night post.

And while reviewing all these posts for those timestamps (this is exhausting idk how y'all do this every time you say "oh I should go ISO someone" like holy fuck I've been drafting this post for like 20 minutes), I ran back into celaph's D2 opener:

Starting catchup now.

I just reread EOD, and I feel like Chaqa's flip on me is opportunistic. He framed it as if he had always scum read me and was just waiting to catch someone trying to save me. Yet the only person who had voted for not me in recent times was Maniac. And if was really concerned with connecting Maniac to me, that work has already been done for him, by Maniac, who has consistently expressed a townread of me. Chaqa even asked him about it earlier so he should be aware of it.

If town Chaqa was genuinely trying to catch people connected to me, I think he would be well aware of the fact that he failed. Rather, I think the more likely explanation is that scum Chaqa would prefer me to die and wanted to cover his motive.

I thought this reasoning made sense at the time. It still does to an extent. But then I watched Chaqa try....whatever that was with the roleblocking thing .

Chaqa's D1 EOD "haha i tricked you celaph" feels like pretty similar behavior to Chaqa's "haha i was just trying to trick mafia into fake claims". And since you (Eden) + some others seem to think this was just Chaqa being Chaqa, then it makes celaph's immediate D2 post much weirder.

Finally, if I was town as celaph here, there is one more thing that I would have added to this D2 post. I would have said something like "I was laying low and not posting intentionally during the night in order to avoid mafia attention / look like a low poster aka mafia, because I had a scum read on Chaqa and wanted to try bait him into killing me".

Or something like this. Put another way. If I was absent all night, I would mention why, or I would have given people a heads up. Even just one joke night post like "if I die kill chaqa" removes a lot of suspicion. There were a bunch of these kinds of posts, and maybe it's enough to goad Chaqa into actually doing it.

All these things leave me coming to my first official scum read.

Celaph, I find thee sus.

##VOTE Celaph

Your sus on me for not night posting is understandable. That said, historically I have always been a low poster at night. I focus elsewhere so I can spend more time during the days playing. That's also why I didn't make a post commenting on my lack of night posts, it's not particularly eventful for me.

I view Chaqa's roleblock thing at the start of today to be a gimmick regardless of his alignment. It's a little trick designed to make people stumble. I view his flip on me a lot more cynically. It's one thing to try a gimmick and see if you can bait people, but he kept it up and is claiming to have been successful. Despite his claims, he has shown no increase in scumread to any of the people he could reasonably consider to have been trapped. If it was just a gimmick, he could have dropped it and moved on, but he didn't.

In other news, Pyxxy is town core. Having been the main cw yesterday and given the talk surrounding me, there is no reason to ever assume that mafia would kill me there. They'd be fools for doing so. The fact that this was not immediately and intuitively obvious shows a complete lack of scum thought on his front. This also matches well with his earlier comments trying to figure things out and his evident lack of experience.

This seems more like an attempt by celaph to pocket pyxxy than anything else.

[Chaqa]

I don't have as many townreads as I'd like at this point. Sabi seems like town. I'm inclined to townread Eden, which is making me scumread him. I wanted to townread Chaqa for the "because" thing, but if Eden told him to do that before the game, maybe he felt like he had to. He sits in a pool with brain, RHK, Jamie, celaph, snowy of people who seem like their town selves but haven't done anything that's impossible to fake.

Below them are the true nulls: rd, pyxxy, worcej, Bona damo, Maniac. Boat could maybe be in this box too but I'm more inclined to kill him because his wagon's death is sketch. Bozo and lamp also seem like decent killing options. I think that's everyone?

This was ghug's last post N1. He did not act on his idea about DKing TFB D2, despite having the opportunity.

This is an interesting find.

[brainbomb]

##Call GM

Can we get the flavor name flip for Maniac who flipped VT.

Also my main question is, does the flipper's flavor name have its own unique name no matter what role was chosen?

If there was a flipper in play who chose Miller for example, would both millers have the same flavor name or would there be two unique different ones?

[brainbomb]

##Call GM

Can we get the flavor name flip for Maniac who flipped VT.

Also my main question is, does the flipper's flavor name have its own unique name no matter what role was chosen?

If there was a flipper in play who chose Miller for example, would both millers have the same flavor name or would there be two unique different ones?

As a follow up, I assume that if a Flipper chose VT, that the flavor name would be a random made up name that is not a copy of someone elses flavor flip. is this correct?

[brainbomb]

Late flavour!

There are about 19 billion chickens in the world. A few roam free whilst most are kept in cramped, squalid conditions. They would be forgiven for just giving up and counting the days until they are served up as a McNugget. But they don’t. They are such clever animals who rationalise that an object that is hidden still exists. They feel emotional pain and grief when one of their number dies. It’s not known if they can love, but perhaps they know beauty. If they do they would no doubt recognise how beautiful one of their brood was. Some would say handsome. As well as being handsome, she was also just a little crazy; in a good way.

But perhaps she was too handsome and too crazy. Chickens can be jealous and cruel and when the mood takes them, bloodthirsty.

And so it was that the plot was hatched to gang up on this crazy, handsome chicken and end her life early.

MANIAC WAS A VANILLA CHICKEN

Even the revised version gives no flavour name

[worcej]

PLEASE HOLD PHASE WAS HAMMERED AT 1133 pm cdt

Waking up and seeing this confused the fuck out of me.

[brainbomb]

I assume that bob will ask durga about what to say on this. And I wanna say that flavour never has any intentional bearing on clues to the game. So I assume the answer here is that no matter what the flipper chooses there is a unique fake rng name set aside for them that has no hint at all, and there are no duplicates at all.


Im assuming this to be the case as flavour is typically not supposed to be part of the actual mystery work going on

[worcej]

so… youve held onto those feelings all
this time and only now when im questioning you youve decided to fire back

Pyxxy's post about being a target by BB since D2 did seem a little weird to finally comment on now.

[worcej]

pyxxy how do you feel
about being the last living person who helped push kakarrotto instead of celaph?

Is this fair?

Pyxxy voted for Kak at a time when there were no scum wagons, and he didn't post again until after EoD1.

I think his hands are cleaner than most.

How can his hand be cleaner than the two that weren't even in the pot?

[Chaqa]

pyxxy how do you feel
about being the last living person who helped push kakarrotto instead of celaph?

Is this fair?

Pyxxy voted for Kak at a time when there were no scum wagons, and he didn't post again until after EoD1.

I think his hands are cleaner than most.

How can his hand be cleaner than the two that weren't even in the pot?

TBH scum aren't always found on leading wagons. I'd say it's generally kinda rare, maybe 50/50

[brainbomb]

so… youve held onto those feelings all
this time and only now when im questioning you youve decided to fire back

Pyxxy's post about being a target by BB since D2 did seem a little weird to finally comment on now.

I guess I see it as if youre gonna come at me I can also spin something to make you look bad too. it isnt necessarily scummy but if he even remotely felt it was evidence against me like seriously that is something you should always talk about. If you sus someone talk about it.

[brainbomb]

My reason for scumreading pyxxy is their selective application of giving +1’s to posts througout the game without interacting with said posts or explaining what they liked about them. It feels like laughing about things without saying why those things would be funny. if you go look at who is giving +1’s there are numerous bizarre instances where pyxxy is liking posts they arent even addressing.

This doesn't strike me as particularly scummy. There are plenty of posts that I +1 that I don't feel the need to otherwise comment on. Sometimes it's because someone made a joke I found funny, sometimes because someone has made a post that agrees with me, and sometimes a comment that I liked, but didn't have anything to add. What did you think of my town Pyxxy argument?

[brainbomb]

to me it felt like pyxxy trying to fit in without having to engage

Does giving +1s result in any credit being given to anyone without engagement in terms of reads? I don't think I see your case here

[brainbomb]

rather than spam the game with every posy pyxxy gave a +1 too here are three in particular that im curious what they liked from these posts and why they selectively picked these

You should probably start with doing this instead of what you did

I think brain meant to attach them but just forgot :'(

Just caught up on the thread and I was excited to finally get some attention besides a few pats on the head and "oh what a good newbie town you are" especially from one as lauded as bb

I think the fact celaph wasnt killed by Joat indicates that the Joat doesnt beleive celaph is scum. which is interesting and obviously joat dont react to this but if there is a PR on the fence about a particular consensus read should that give us pause or do we just think the Joat is justified in saving their kill for a later time? I feel like flipping celaph via joat kill was probably a decent play here and unless celaph is the joat maybe we should prop up a viable counter wagon which can actaully make this day interesting

I propose we make the counter wagons from pyxxy, flyingboat, and one of our absentee players worcej or rdrivera

discuss
I prefer we not use today to hammer celaph

+1 to the idea that JOAT maybe should have shot celaph

+0.5 to the idea of not hammering celaph, in that I think we've done a good job of getting that done right away here in D2 and now we're progressing to other conversations naturally

+0.5 to getting another wagon going, boat seems like a fine choice to drive again

pyxxy is very concerned about the ease of which their +1 behaviors can be seen

It's just a pain to view them en mass, as you are undoubtably experiencing while combing through mine B) I thought Eden had some way to view them all at once.

to me it felt like pyxxy trying to fit in without having to engage

in what scenario does it work as a scum play? say scum purposely roleblocked like, me or pyxxy for optimal chance that we’d make a mistake as PR and claim to be roleblocked since we are newer. If it works and a PR is outed, Chaqa gets insta-eliminated by the vote, and the PR is likely doc saved or something. It’s not a good trade for scum, imo. So I don’t think the motivation is as simple as you seem to

never underestimate scums ability to out a PR and then feign ignorance. Ive done it before. Ive PR claimed as scum to bait a counter claim and then I retracted and just acted like I was trying to protect the real PR

In other news, Pyxxy is town core. Having been the main cw yesterday and given the talk surrounding me, there is no reason to ever assume that mafia would kill me there. They'd be fools for doing so. The fact that this was not immediately and intuitively obvious shows a complete lack of scum thought on his front. This also matches well with his earlier comments trying to figure things out and his evident lack of experience.

Returning to the game, do we assume Brainbomb's roleblock claim is legit since nobody else has claimed it? Or could it be a ruse?

It's BB - assume chaos at all times.

Ah...

If a flipper picks VT, does their win condition change? I.e. does picking VT/a town role as the flipper mean that now you win if town wins? Or do you still just win if mafia wins?

No, the only thing affected by the Flipper's choice is what role/alignment their body appears to be if they die. It effectively allows them to pick a fake role reveal on death. They don't actually assume that role.

Thank you!

Damn disappointing that Snowy was gone, especially given he didn't get to get into normal hard carry Snowy mode. Him and Durga were the two primary reasons I joined this game and Durga dropped

Anyways Celaph managed to avoid posting at all during the night so I'm feeling pretty comfortable voting ##VOTE Celaph here.

Given my lack of posting it you could say that your reasons for voting have not changed, but to phrase it as I "managed to avoid posting" is a blatant mischaracterization. I'm never an active night poster.

Noted! Bona and Chaqa +1'd this which means absolutely nothing so I would love if an experienced player could confirm this about Celaph.

[brainbomb]

My reason for scumreading pyxxy is their selective application of giving +1’s to posts througout the game without interacting with said posts or explaining what they liked about them. It feels like laughing about things without saying why those things would be funny. if you go look at who is giving +1’s there are numerous bizarre instances where pyxxy is liking posts they arent even addressing.

whats funny is he still never explained why he was reading the game, giving out +1s and hiding from the thread. and then two dead confirmed scum have come out saying my case was silly and pyxxy is town

[pyxxy]

so… youve held onto those feelings all
this time and only now when im questioning you youve decided to fire back

Pyxxy's post about being a target by BB since D2 did seem a little weird to finally comment on now.

I guess I see it as if youre gonna come at me I can also spin something to make you look bad too. it isnt necessarily scummy but if he even remotely felt it was evidence against me like seriously that is something you should always talk about. If you sus someone talk about it.

Yeah that's my fault for reacting to you while you were drunk and antagonistic. I should have just waited until morning.

I'm pretty confident that you're town, brain:

D2:

Brainbomb, I'll double respond here. Your posts are legendary on this forum. I've been on webdip long enough to know that.

^I know how you can be abrasive, even outside of mafia games /s

N3:

You do agree that "Brainbomb, Demon and Chaqa" are all town, yeah? I think I currently believe this to be true.

D4:

Currently sheeping Eden, brain is a close second though. Hopefully Bona comes back later tonight and drops some nice analysis, calls a few people SIMPS, just like the good ol' days.

^If it's not clear, as I learned what sheep meant, I started using it for people that I trusted/town read. That included you.

You don't mind pushing people hard:

hi bozo is there some reason why you dont talk to people when they just wanna talk to you?

Brainbomb you didn't answer me either. I want to know what made you change your mind on me.

it was when I realized your feelings were getting actually hurt by being called scum

POE
Im struggling between demonrhk / worcej / chaqa as being the high dollar scum who was set up to look good from the get go. something is foul in this mixture

im leaning on flipping flum way more than blamp but ill be rereading ghug now

And sometimes you bounce around between ideas:

theres is only one person left on tfb who can even be the second busser and thats rdrivera

^see: the second busser

But you're always receptive to positive interaction.

thanks pyxxy its a little odd that you are helping him reiterate his case for him but thats nice of you

I'm sorry that I came out scared and angry that you were drunk blitz posting at me.

But you come on strong and only think (when you're sober) I mean when you're meant with an equal force in the opposite direction.

I don't want to lose this game to you tunneling me -> our afk townies not reading shit, not doing shit, and just voting me out to preserve their future scum metas.