M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[brainbomb]

Final post, don't you dare let Chaqa get away with trying to claim I was a flipper without giving him some deep shit.

are you even actually mad? usually youd be excited to comb through a game as a sub and give people a good run for their money. ruffle a few feathers and get in the ring

I was, but considering you're all just endhammering me why on earth would I waste my time doing that if I'll be hammered before I even get a final post on.

Were on Chaqas ride now since we ignored him ysterday and it got sabi killed

[Fluminator]

Seriously brain. What type of a queation is that.
WhY aReN't YoU ReReAdINg

When I was, and you're currently trying to hammer me before I get anywhere. I really hope this is a reaction test because this is really bad.

[brainbomb]

Seriously brain. What type of a queation is that.
WhY aReN't YoU ReReAdINg

When I was, and you're currently trying to hammer me before I get anywhere. I really hope this is a reaction test because this is really bad.

##Unend

fine.
take as much time as you need flum.

how do you feel about this setup overall?

[Chaqa]

Final post, don't you dare let Chaqa get away with trying to claim I was a flipper without giving him some deep shit.

That’s just what a Flipper would say

[Fluminator]

It's fine, mostly vanilla. I've never played with a flipper before, and I've never loved the concept but it's good to experiment with new roles.
I'll take it any day over the no flip game.

[Chaqa]

Final post, don't you dare let Chaqa get away with trying to claim I was a flipper without giving him some deep shit.

are you even actually mad? usually youd be excited to comb through a game as a sub and give people a good run for their money. ruffle a few feathers and get in the ring

I was, but considering you're all just endhammering me why on earth would I waste my time doing that if I'll be hammered before I even get a final post on.

You said something similar before, and while you have been involved in the thread, I don’t believe besides skimming ghug’s iso and comment as we go, you haven’t made any cases of your own, provided new theories, analysis.

It’s been several phases at this point. I don’t really see why all do the sudden you’re acting like you’ll contribute more.

[Bonatogether]

anyway I hate to throw a wrench in things, but there’s an obvious issue in the psychoanalysis which is that Lamp’s GT submissions, if they’re to be believed, were generated almost a week ago relative to the perspective post. in the interim the following happened:

• ghug ragequit (not assigning blame here)
• there were various minor blowups involving Sabi (not assigning blame here either)
• brain and Chaqa got into it (see previous note about blame)
• several people cast maximum overcringe angsty self votes (total blame assigned here smh my head @ all y’all)
• Lamp went from a relative TR to being put up against the intractable town steamroller

under all those circumstances, it makes a lot of sense for Lamp to lose his sense of agency and underlying confidence. in fact that tonal shift is actually more proof that he’s town. if he had the exact same psychological frame that would be more evidence of doctoring the GT messages IMO.

you have to remember that we’re human here. if anything the way he’s worn his heart on his sleeve a bit has swayed me more.

now, you could ask yourself why the demoralization happened even as town objectively racked up Ws left and right, but Lamp is obviously not alone in feeling this way, and I don’t think it’s all coming from mafia.

You can't respond to this but whatever.

I don't believe any but the last is potentially relevant. However, considering the timing: I understand being demoralized over feeling like the kill is already decided. I've just walked away at lylo and let town lose like that. However, as we saw, blamp's wagon peaked very early in d4 and never seriously came back. The demoralization being severe enough that blamp feels a loss of agency does not make sense to me, given that the 'my perspective' post was considerably after blamp's wagon died as a serious contender.

[Fluminator]

are you even actually mad? usually youd be excited to comb through a game as a sub and give people a good run for their money. ruffle a few feathers and get in the ring

I was, but considering you're all just endhammering me why on earth would I waste my time doing that if I'll be hammered before I even get a final post on.

You said something similar before, and while you have been involved in the thread, I don’t believe besides skimming ghug’s iso and comment as we go, you haven’t made any cases of your own, provided new theories, analysis.

It’s been several phases at this point. I don’t really see why all do the sudden you’re acting like you’ll contribute more.

I said I'd determine Lamp's alignment (who was about to be hammer yeeted up the ass at the time) and I think I did.

If you don't get the hammer through, is there another person's alignment you want me to determine you're uncertain of? That sounds more fun than re-reading tbh.

[Chaqa]

I was, but considering you're all just endhammering me why on earth would I waste my time doing that if I'll be hammered before I even get a final post on.

You said something similar before, and while you have been involved in the thread, I don’t believe besides skimming ghug’s iso and comment as we go, you haven’t made any cases of your own, provided new theories, analysis.

It’s been several phases at this point. I don’t really see why all do the sudden you’re acting like you’ll contribute more.

I said I'd determine Lamp's alignment (who was about to be hammer yeeted up the ass at the time) and I think I did.

If you don't get the hammer through, is there another person's alignment you want me to determine you're uncertain of? That sounds more fun than re-reading tbh.

Worcej would be a good one.

Or RHK.

[Bonatogether]

So saying "if celaph ends up being scum" is a very strange statement to make when 1) blamp scumread celaph to some degree and 2) blamp cannot know if he needs to swing momentum until celaph has already died. Later on in that message, he states that "a celaph town flip that I swing onto probably still lets me live, given how much effort I have put in to raise other points of discussion." This, for me, is an enormous red flag. Why does town!blamp consider what will let him live? Why does he care what people think of his effort to raise other points of discussion? This entire PM does not make sense as a town creation. It is a description of how to best avoid the dk for the benefit of town through creating good VCA and interactions, and not creating persuasive arguments against being killed or pushing other kills.

responding to this because I think it’s the easiest thing to clarify. i have zero confidence in my scumhunting ability. so far this game I have made a case on maniac, who I now think is town, and a case on Chaqa/Sabi, who I now think are town. i have zero idea how to better calibrate this. therefore my best value is just in being apparently townie myself, and not allowing myself to be voted out. I push my suspicions with vigor even if I don’t really have confidence in them because like, what else is there to do? I can say I scumread someone but I still am not confident I am right. I’m just hoping to throw thoughts at the wall and maybe someone smarter than me will figure it out. You ask why I consider what will let me live, but I literally say that in the next paragraph. I see being voted out as the ultimate townie failure. If I am voted out that means I played anti-town, and have personally lost. To me there’s no getting around that, it doesn’t matter how right you were. If people don’t trust you and scum can manipulate ppl to vote you out, you failed. That’s my way of looking at it. I’m never going to be the best solver, so my best course of action is to position myself in a way that makes me apparent town. So that’s what I strategized for.

And regarding the taking three minutes to post, it’s because I debated posting an edited version where I took out the insults on Eden. I took them out and just added brackets but then I figured that might make it read as inauthentic so I decided to keep them in.

Your best information is yourself, and as I recall you weren't bad in the last game. As for cases, normally people make only a couple a game so you're not far behind in that respect either. I agree with the idea that townies need to obvtown at this point but the way to do that isn't to give up and try to engineer being townread with VCA - it's trying to be open about your thoughts and reads, which you've been doing a pretty good job at as well. It happens that I think it's not convincing, but the basic work is there. You're fine in that respect.

Also, I want to push back against the idea of being voted out being ultimate towny failure. Ultimate failure is losing. Making sure the deaths that need to happen happen is optimal. This is a team game and individual townies are largely expendable. For example, I self-voted in a recent game to further the goal by getting townies out of a tunnel that I know I am terrible I am getting them out of. This game, I voted sabi at EoD despite thinking they were town because I believe it is not optimal for them to be around for late game. Dying as a townie happens and it's not failure if town isn't braindead.

Being the best solver is also not a goal that's realistic. Different people take the lead on different days and this is critical because it means we get different perspectives on the game with different hard knowledge and different approaches to solving. I can't read ghug but some people find it relatively easy. Chaqa and Eden are much better at reading me than other people are. Posting whatever the fuck you think is important is a central aspect to why towns win.

I would have expected you to know this from your previous experience on mafiascum.

That took 180 seconds to decide?

[Jamiet99uk]

RIP Eden

I think flipping ##Vote Fluminator is necessarty.

[Chaqa]

You know

##vote worcej

I’ve been known to be wrong before

[Chaqa]

I’m just thinking, if scum deliberately planned to bus celaph d2, ghug would have gotten in on it, you know?

I bet worcej is the goon or something

[pyxxy]

Hm.

If we're not hammering someone, my preference is still

##VOTE DemonRHK
##UNEND

Demon > rdr > worcej > flum, if I had to order my top 4

[Chaqa]

I really feel like we should not vote RHK out today.

[pyxxy]

I really feel like we should not vote RHK out today.

okay okay fine fine fine ##VOTE worcej

[rdrivera2005]

RIP Eden.

I think ##vote Flum is the best choice for today. I would also vote for Demon.

[brainbomb]

pyxxy, why do you follow chaqas orders

[brainbomb]

he says tie the vote so you try to tie the vote
he says we aint votin rhk so you switch to be his lil shadow

why?

[pyxxy]

he says tie the vote so you try to tie the vote
he says we aint votin rhk so you switch to be his lil shadow

why?

Eden's dead, Bona's afk, and you voted Blamp who's not in my top 4.

Also I'm just having fun. Shrug. Hammering isn't gonna happen so my vote doesn't matter until ~6 hours before EOD when everyone is awake and the party starts bumping.

Until then I'll just whip around my ## and wait for Flum to not actually read D1 again :)