M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[bozotheclown]

I mean I had pretty well defined opinions on my reads going into the EoD and explained my thought process throughout. Given I continued that pressure through the night and into today where I've been voting him since the first hour of the day, how do you reconcile your argument with my reads during D1, my N1&D2 posts, and my current vote? It's not like I was one of the many voters who had rushed onto Kak without an explanation. I gave a clear definition of my preference list and then gave the only real in-depth explanation of why I thought Kak's return post was scummy. It was wrong in hindsight but at the time it made plenty of sense given the reaction of contemporaries to it before the flip.

Yes, that is all reasonable. Or, you could be bussing celaph, which I would expect 1 or 2 mafia to be doing if he is scum.

Why would scum!me bother "saving him" or avoid voting him as you have been arguing if my plan was to shade and bus him this entire time? Like it seems like it doesn't matter to you what my position was on Celaph or what Celaph's alignment is when it comes to your scum read on me and instead you'll ad hoc your way to maintain the scum read no matter the facts. Care to explain why?

I would assume it was not your plan D1. There are no facts that point to you being town, or mafia, but I still find your D1 suspicious. Maybe it is the way you tried to undermine snowy's scum read of you.

[ghug]

@eden can you explain bozo in a serious manner beyond this 65-70% bs?

it’s completely serious, I’ve said it several times today.

Why'd you ignore my question about Rivera and worcej though?

[BesharamSabi]

Why is sabi tier 1?

kind of hardcore doubt they actually go to all the trouble of spreadsheeting like this if they’re mafia. concededly there’s no reason they can’t have, but in my mind it’s a very low probability.

and I think they have been trying to solve the game in their own way. as we’ve seen in the past, their way is unfortunately easily replicated as mafia. but I think it’s genuine.

— — —

Moreover. What changed ghug from your town core to tier 3?

he’s been very peripheral today, lots of “engagement” in the somewhat hollow sense of talking back and forth with people about the game, a few claimed reads here and there, but I don’t really get the bigger picture of how he sees the game, which matters more to me as the game progresses.

that said I’m sure he’ll be around to help out with that soon… right? …right?

What has pyxxy done to warrant tier 2?

oh I just liked this post enough to move him out of null for now. looked engaged and thinking about the game harder than I reckon brand new mafia does. kind of like how once you finally did the work on your EOD1 play I thought “he probably doesn’t actually bother to do this as mafia.” but both of you could, so you’re only tier 2.

Are you completely disagreeing with the connections between celaph and Bozo and Lamp?

no, amusingly. I’m still working out what I think about Lamp’s EOD1 + N1. I think he’s been pretty townie otherwise so I want some more time to sort out the other people. in particular, if celaph is actually town (unlikely in my view, but possible) then I think a lot of the basis for worrying about Lamp goes away.
as for the theory, the issue is that Bozo is more likely town than not, so the theory is likely flawed. but as independent starting points it’s pretty decent.

How is Bozo tier 2?

he’s like 65-70% town

This whole list is the kind of thing you would put me through the ringer for and use as a gotcha if I posted it.

don’t be so dramatic

First post of yours all game I’ve found outright scummy

well that’s just a bad take, what you mean to say is you don’t agree with it.

— — —

Can you explain your Tier 2 to me? I can see where you’re coming from with placements most elsewhere but almost your entire Tier 2 seems baffling to me. Bozo to me should be at the bottom of tier 3. Blamp around the middle, and Chaqa probably at the top. Pyxxy is more of a toss up to me.

I think I covered all of these above in some form or fashion but feel free to ask more.

Just like diplomacy, I view that game differently than most. I also view mafia differently.

Anyway I suck at this Game but. I'm trying my best.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Yes, that is all reasonable. Or, you could be bussing celaph, which I would expect 1 or 2 mafia to be doing if he is scum.

Why would scum!me bother "saving him" or avoid voting him as you have been arguing if my plan was to shade and bus him this entire time? Like it seems like it doesn't matter to you what my position was on Celaph or what Celaph's alignment is when it comes to your scum read on me and instead you'll ad hoc your way to maintain the scum read no matter the facts. Care to explain why?

Save yesterday, decide to bus overnight.

That would be the most birdbrained play ever. Surely I hope y'all don't think I'm that stupid

[bozotheclown]

Can you explain your Tier 2 to me? I can see where you're coming from with placements most elsewhere but almost your entire Tier 2 seems baffling to me. Bozo to me should be at the bottom of tier 3. Blamp around the middle, and Chaqa probably at the top. Pyxxy is more of a toss up to me.

I'm very confused by this list.

And also your list???

I found Chaqa's posts today to make a lot of sense and even where I disagreed I thought the motivations behind them were townie whereas before a lot of my scum read was based on him arguing in bad faith and seeming to have non townie motivations behind his argumentation. Blamp and bozo look bad for the way they disappeared around SoN which is cause for suspicion as initially brought up by Snowy. Combine that with Blamp's EoD as pointed out by Chaqa and bozo's highly suspect argumentation for someone like him and it becomes hard to place them as high as Eden does. I'm not full on scum reading blamp yet, he's more middle of the pack as I said, but I do not think it makes any sense to town read bozo here

Have you ever used not posting at the start of a night as a basis to suspect anyone before?

[ghug]

0%

It's amazing how you constructed a precisely equally bad take.

You’re also scum, so it’s whatever.

What brought me from "hasn't obvtowned yet" to scum?

[BesharamSabi]

I'm very confused by this list.

And also your list???

I found Chaqa's posts today to make a lot of sense and even where I disagreed I thought the motivations behind them were townie whereas before a lot of my scum read was based on him arguing in bad faith and seeming to have non townie motivations behind his argumentation. Blamp and bozo look bad for the way they disappeared around SoN which is cause for suspicion as initially brought up by Snowy. Combine that with Blamp's EoD as pointed out by Chaqa and bozo's highly suspect argumentation for someone like him and it becomes hard to place them as high as Eden does. I'm not full on scum reading blamp yet, he's more middle of the pack as I said, but I do not think it makes any sense to town read bozo here

Have you ever used not posting at the start of a night as a basis to suspect anyone before?

Shots fired

[ghug]

Why would scum!me bother "saving him" or avoid voting him as you have been arguing if my plan was to shade and bus him this entire time? Like it seems like it doesn't matter to you what my position was on Celaph or what Celaph's alignment is when it comes to your scum read on me and instead you'll ad hoc your way to maintain the scum read no matter the facts. Care to explain why?

Save yesterday, decide to bus overnight.

That would be the most birdbrained play ever. Surely I hope y'all don't think I'm that stupid

One of the reasons day one is so great for information is that scum haven't talked to each other yet. Unless you're Jamie, it makes bussing more challenging emotionally.

I just don't like how you keep saying you'd be playing exactly a certain way if you were scum. There are too many unknowns for those hypotheticals to be useful unless you are scum.

[President Eden]

@eden can you explain bozo in a serious manner beyond this 65-70% bs?

it’s completely serious, I’ve said it several times today.

Why’d you ignore my question about Rivera and worcej though?

my hourly rate for answering questions is tree fiddy and your balance ran out.

you can get credit toward that balance by addressing this - I know I didn’t explicitly address it to you, but I do wanna hear from you:

he’s been very peripheral today, lots of “engagement” in the somewhat hollow sense of talking back and forth with people about the game, a few claimed reads here and there, but I don’t really get the bigger picture of how he sees the game, which matters more to me as the game progresses.

that said I’m sure he’ll be around to help out with that soon… right? …right?

[President Eden]

Save yesterday, decide to bus overnight.

That would be the most birdbrained play ever. Surely I hope y’all don’t think I’m that stupid

One of the reasons day one is so great for information is that scum haven’t talked to each other yet. Unless you’re Jamie, it makes bussing more challenging emotionally.

I just don’t like how you keep saying you’d be playing exactly a certain way if you were scum. There are too many unknowns for those hypotheticals to be useful unless you are scum.

this is good stuff tho I tell ya hwat

[TheFlyingBoat]

Yes, that is all reasonable. Or, you could be bussing celaph, which I would expect 1 or 2 mafia to be doing if he is scum.

Why would scum!me bother "saving him" or avoid voting him as you have been arguing if my plan was to shade and bus him this entire time? Like it seems like it doesn't matter to you what my position was on Celaph or what Celaph's alignment is when it comes to your scum read on me and instead you'll ad hoc your way to maintain the scum read no matter the facts. Care to explain why?

I would assume it was not your plan D1. There are no facts that point to you being town, or mafia, but I still find your D1 suspicious. Maybe it is the way you tried to undermine snowy's scum read of you.

Undermining Snowy's scum read of me? Large parts of it seemed to based on his claim I was ignoring him when it clearly wasn't the case as I pointed out from a quantitative case and Eden pointed out from a qualitative one. I clearly wasn't ignoring or trying to save Celaph either given my posts. What makes you think my D1 is scummy based on your own opinions and reads besides snowy in sandbagging mode?

[President Eden]

You have the subtlety of a stampede, but I get it.

you could learn a thing or two

You think I’m literally the only person who understood what you’re saying? You can’t make those kinds of comments at all. I’m not gonna pretend you didn’t do it when sure as hell everyone else saw it.

imagine knowing what’s going on and choosing this line of response

[ghug]

you could learn a thing or two

You think I’m literally the only person who understood what you’re saying? You can’t make those kinds of comments at all. I’m not gonna pretend you didn’t do it when sure as hell everyone else saw it.

imagine knowing what’s going on and choosing this line of response

Imagine both of y'all openly discussing PR reads in the thread.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I'm very confused by this list.

And also your list???

I found Chaqa's posts today to make a lot of sense and even where I disagreed I thought the motivations behind them were townie whereas before a lot of my scum read was based on him arguing in bad faith and seeming to have non townie motivations behind his argumentation. Blamp and bozo look bad for the way they disappeared around SoN which is cause for suspicion as initially brought up by Snowy. Combine that with Blamp's EoD as pointed out by Chaqa and bozo's highly suspect argumentation for someone like him and it becomes hard to place them as high as Eden does. I'm not full on scum reading blamp yet, he's more middle of the pack as I said, but I do not think it makes any sense to town read bozo here

Have you ever used not posting at the start of a night as a basis to suspect anyone before?

I believe I mentioned off handedly once or twice certain people who I already scum read going off to the scum chat when they didn't post soon after EoD as a 80% joke/20% serious thing but I don't think I've ever used it as heavily as I have here. Snowy's post convinced me to look at it a little more given it felt like one of the less sandbaggy or at least sandbaggy with a bigger nugget of truth embedded inside (given he kinda backed away from the actual conclusion itself pretty loudly while encouraging the rest of us to put the blatant two and two together for him).

[President Eden]

Why would scum!me bother “saving him” or avoid voting him as you have been arguing if my plan was to shade and bus him this entire time? Like it seems like it doesn’t matter to you what my position was on Celaph or what Celaph’s alignment is when it comes to your scum read on me and instead you’ll ad hoc your way to maintain the scum read no matter the facts. Care to explain why?

Save yesterday, decide to bus overnight.

That would be the most birdbrained play ever. Surely I hope y’all don’t think I’m that stupid

birdbrained play, or the result of town forcing action on mafia? the thing about playing mafia sided is that sometimes town just gets organized early and puts the full court press on and forces your hand.

IF you were mafia with celaph… IF… you had basically no choice whatsoever about your teammate going up. the instinctive reaction by mafia would be to save your teammate if you could and bus him if you couldn’t. unfortunately people love killing Kak no matter what I say, so there’s your chance to save your teammate. upon further review in team chat overnight you realize celaph is basically a dead man walking, what else can you do but bus?

you can act like if you were mafia you’d be some god tier big brain who would do something genius, and that’s great and you’re certainly smart enough for that to be true, but in all reality you’d be flying by the seat of your boat like everybody else that ever rolls scum.

[BesharamSabi]

you could learn a thing or two

You think I’m literally the only person who understood what you’re saying? You can’t make those kinds of comments at all. I’m not gonna pretend you didn’t do it when sure as hell everyone else saw it.

imagine knowing what’s going on and choosing this line of response

Yall know we can read this right

[President Eden]

You think I’m literally the only person who understood what you’re saying? You can’t make those kinds of comments at all. I’m not gonna pretend you didn’t do it when sure as hell everyone else saw it.

imagine knowing what’s going on and choosing this line of response

Imagine both of y’all openly discussing PR reads in the thread.

h-he started it!

[President Eden]

I’m very confused by this list.

And also your list???

I found Chaqa’s posts today to make a lot of sense and even where I disagreed I thought the motivations behind them were townie whereas before a lot of my scum read was based on him arguing in bad faith and seeming to have non townie motivations behind his argumentation. Blamp and bozo look bad for the way they disappeared around SoN which is cause for suspicion as initially brought up by Snowy. Combine that with Blamp’s EoD as pointed out by Chaqa and bozo’s highly suspect argumentation for someone like him and it becomes hard to place them as high as Eden does. I’m not full on scum reading blamp yet, he’s more middle of the pack as I said, but I do not think it makes any sense to town read bozo here

Have you ever used not posting at the start of a night as a basis to suspect anyone before?

TIER 1 TOWN

[ghug]

imagine knowing what’s going on and choosing this line of response

Imagine both of y’all openly discussing PR reads in the thread.

h-he started it!

I mean you had a read you couldn't otherwise substantiate and it was so weird that like four separate people asked you about it.

[President Eden]

Imagine both of y’all openly discussing PR reads in the thread.

h-he started it!

I mean you had a read you couldn’t otherwise substantiate and it was so weird that like four separate people asked you about it.

who do you even think is mafia and why did EOD1 happen the way it did in light of that