MAFIA XXXVIII: INFINITY WAR

[Jamiet99uk]

Also since Bismarck showed up...

##Unvote

I also now wish to look back over Vecna's interactions.

Could he have been a fearkill? Perhaps so, if ND is on the scumteam as I purport he is. It's well known ND fears Vecna.

[yavuzovic]

@Jamie,
Could you talk a little about Bo's Me-Fox case?

[yavuzovic]

ghug is now confirmed town, I really didn't like this reveal because ghug was already on our town lists and a scum candidate could be better. Also this may attract some nightkills to ghug

[y2kjbk]

Now, with 2 Town dead, the numbers are changing, and I like numbers.
So, 16 Town, 4 Mafia and 1 SK means almost 20% chance of lynching scum is less than last game at D2 (where we got Ninja!). But it is still doable. So, who did Vecna argue against, and vote against? I am going to have dinner now, so will answer that question later my time.

Bismarck has no problem lynching town-clears?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie,
Could you talk a little about Bo's Me-Fox case?

Sure.

It was crappy.

[flash2015]

Flash you have the mafia hunt skills of a hairy palmed 7th grader

Probably. Show me how to hunt, Uncle Brainbomb...

First take vote counts
Call James Yanik
And ask him what that bottle of lotion was for

I will have a better look back at what has happened so far this evening (at work we have a beta release today). I have yet to see though detailed analysis actually help point to scum. I sort of feel like it is the stock analysts vs. the monkeys thing - the monkeys can often get better results:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/rickferri/ ... he-market/

[damo666]

Time for a read list

Bismarck - finally shows up with reasonable explanation for absence Null/Townlean
Bo - meltdown indicates VT to me, certainly wouldn't waste a vote there, defo not SK
Bozo - vote on Ezio and more importantly late vote switch from darg to bo => scum
Brain - Gamora I assume
Chippie - trying hard (a bit too hard?), in fact very trying but assume VT (btw is 'excessant' American English)?
Darg - scummy posts and Bozo vote switch => scum pair, not SK
DT - I believe the RL story - null
Flash - Null but possibly SK
Fox - Townlean unless SK
Ghug - known VT
HR - sensible though limited posts null/townlean
Jamie - don't like his attack on Chips - scumlean
ND - posts seem townlean
Rdr - Null, possible SK
Snowy - scummy posts, not SK - scumlean
Squiggs - null (not SK)
Worcej - Assume doc
Xorxes - presumably town, I know the teleport could be just to put us off the scent but I reckon they just scared of him
Y2K - null
Yav - null/townlean

So my scum pool is Bozo, Darg, Snowy, Jamie
Potential SKs Flash, Fox, Rdr

[damo666]

##vote Darg

Gonna be reasonably busy rest of D2 but will pop in and out

[flash2015]

Flash might be janitor. He reacted to the kill pretty fast and said it wasnt what he was expecting. I dont recall him scumreading vecna...

Why does everyone read me as a moron scum?

It wasn't what I expected...because I assumed I would be dead.

Why did you think you'd die?

I was cagey on the first day but let me now be explicit - my interaction with worcej on D1 could be interpreted as either a PR-slip/stone-slip or "Flash is a moron" scum/SK slip.

This is why I am suspicious of darg/Squiggs...as I am sure both saw this interaction (I am assuming damo missed it). Neither darg or Squigs mentioned this slip - surely if you thought I scum/SK slipped you would mention it as an important piece of evidence? In voting for me Squigs didn't give **any** evidence at all (he said something like "someone else gave the evidence - that is why I am voting for flash")...then Squigs gave a very weak excuse to move away from me (suggesting he only voted me because I was still on BB, it wasn't due to any evidence - that doesn't sound very consistent). It also feels like Squigs interaction is of a shallower level than last game which just **feels** wrong. Darg's analysis appears to be making so sense at all (e.g. like the stuff about BB). There could be other reasons why he is acting scum...but I know a scum strategy is to throw doubt on things which are obviously true.

I am not of course going to confirm or deny whether I am PR/have a stone or not as that could be validated by scum. If I am a PR I am screwed anyway. If I am not a PR, it is good for town if I draw in a night kill.

If I am not trusted and I make it into tomorrow I would encourage whoever has the mind stone to check me out. If we do that at least everyone will have the same information about me.

[brainbomb]

Just finished a late-night re-read. I suppose my desire to see Brain as a fake-claimer is the desire to 'catch' a big fish.
Probably wrong. Gonna try to start over.
Stupid and/or wrong are not scum-indicative though.
Back to sleep.

Im a big townfish. Maybe you wanted to play deadliest catch

[brainbomb]

I gotta say all these reads lists saying im gamora and thus town are moronic. Im town for hundreds of reasons besides my role. Ive put actual effort in. It makes me think ppl arent reading me since im clear.

Hey by the way we have 3 clears alive right now


Worcej, ghug, whats our chosen wagon. We have control

[brainbomb]

Time for a read list

Bismarck - finally shows up with reasonable explanation for absence Null/Townlean
Bo - meltdown indicates VT to me, certainly wouldn't waste a vote there, defo not SK
Bozo - vote on Ezio and more importantly late vote switch from darg to bo => scum
Brain - Gamora I assume
Chippie - trying hard (a bit too hard?), in fact very trying but assume VT (btw is 'excessant' American English)?
Darg - scummy posts and Bozo vote switch => scum pair, not SK
DT - I believe the RL story - null
Flash - Null but possibly SK
Fox - Townlean unless SK
Ghug - known VT
HR - sensible though limited posts null/townlean
Jamie - don't like his attack on Chips - scumlean
ND - posts seem townlean
Rdr - Null, possible SK
Snowy - scummy posts, not SK - scumlean
Squiggs - null (not SK)
Worcej - Assume doc
Xorxes - presumably town, I know the teleport could be just to put us off the scent but I reckon they just scared of him
Y2K - null
Yav - null/townlean

So my scum pool is Bozo, Darg, Snowy, Jamie
Potential SKs Flash, Fox, Rdr

This looks alot like foxcastles reads.

Maybe damo is scum

##Vote Foxcastle

[Squigs44]

Why does everyone read me as a moron scum?

It wasn't what I expected...because I assumed I would be dead.

Why did you think you'd die?

I was cagey on the first day but let me now be explicit - my interaction with worcej on D1 could be interpreted as either a PR-slip/stone-slip or "Flash is a moron" scum/SK slip.

This is why I am suspicious of darg/Squiggs...as I am sure both saw this interaction (I am assuming damo missed it). Neither darg or Squigs mentioned this slip - surely if you thought I scum/SK slipped you would mention it as an important piece of evidence? In voting for me Squigs didn't give **any** evidence at all (he said something like "someone else gave the evidence - that is why I am voting for flash")...then Squigs gave a very weak excuse to move away from me (suggesting he only voted me because I was still on BB, it wasn't due to any evidence - that doesn't sound very consistent). It also feels like Squigs interaction is of a shallower level than last game which just **feels** wrong. Darg's analysis appears to be making so sense at all (e.g. like the stuff about BB). There could be other reasons why he is acting scum...but I know a scum strategy is to throw doubt on things which are obviously true.

I am not of course going to confirm or deny whether I am PR/have a stone or not as that could be validated by scum. If I am a PR I am screwed anyway. If I am not a PR, it is good for town if I draw in a night kill.

If I am not trusted and I make it into tomorrow I would encourage whoever has the mind stone to check me out. If we do that at least everyone will have the same information about me.

How do you urge the person with the mind stone to reveal your identity in the same post that you don't claim a role, but imply that you are a PR, but not which PR? It just looks like you are trying to waste the mind stone.

Also, why tell us about this now and not d1? What changed other than your ability to be coached in the mafia qt?

On mobile right now but will post quotes showing why your case on me has errors soon.

[worcej]

I gotta say all these reads lists saying im gamora and thus town are moronic. Im town for hundreds of reasons besides my role. Ive put actual effort in. It makes me think ppl arent reading me since im clear.

Hey by the way we have 3 clears alive right now


Worcej, ghug, whats our chosen wagon. We have control

My top three wagon's I'd like to see are the following:

Damo - my interpretation of him so far has been that he is dropping one liners and not really actually trying to scum hunt in any real way. Granted, I am somewhat the same, but I am typically more the 'observant' kind in this game than trying to trap people. Back on Damo - he seems to always be commenting on who the SK is and more laser focused on that than finding any generic scum, which has me questioning him. Add to it the 'call' for vig to 'stand up', I am just highly suspect of him.

Chippe - My views on him are very similar to Jaime's - he is asking dumb questions that are already answered and is over the top noob playing. Without any prior experience or exposure to him, it's hard to tell if it's normal or an act. I am willing to have him rung up to find that one out.

Foxcastle - Besides my initial OMGUS, there isn't much to say that Fox is still scum. This could be intentional - he got the PR reveal and was able to create an explanation on the situation that makes him look towny. Since then, all town play as well. Again, Fox is a good player and I base this on last game - I think he is able to think on his feet and can create narratives as he sees fit.

To also be clear: ghug is really the only confirmed town we have right now. Both brain and I are claimed and are only 'clear' because no counter claim has surfaced in either situation. I am inclined to believe you're town brain, but in the off chance that you're full of it (which is entirely possible with you), I am not entirely clearing you yet.

[flash2015]

Why did you think you'd die?

I was cagey on the first day but let me now be explicit - my interaction with worcej on D1 could be interpreted as either a PR-slip/stone-slip or "Flash is a moron" scum/SK slip.

This is why I am suspicious of darg/Squiggs...as I am sure both saw this interaction (I am assuming damo missed it). Neither darg or Squigs mentioned this slip - surely if you thought I scum/SK slipped you would mention it as an important piece of evidence? In voting for me Squigs didn't give **any** evidence at all (he said something like "someone else gave the evidence - that is why I am voting for flash")...then Squigs gave a very weak excuse to move away from me (suggesting he only voted me because I was still on BB, it wasn't due to any evidence - that doesn't sound very consistent). It also feels like Squigs interaction is of a shallower level than last game which just **feels** wrong. Darg's analysis appears to be making so sense at all (e.g. like the stuff about BB). There could be other reasons why he is acting scum...but I know a scum strategy is to throw doubt on things which are obviously true.

I am not of course going to confirm or deny whether I am PR/have a stone or not as that could be validated by scum. If I am a PR I am screwed anyway. If I am not a PR, it is good for town if I draw in a night kill.

If I am not trusted and I make it into tomorrow I would encourage whoever has the mind stone to check me out. If we do that at least everyone will have the same information about me.

How do you urge the person with the mind stone to reveal your identity in the same post that you don't claim a role, but imply that you are a PR, but not which PR? It just looks like you are trying to waste the mind stone.

Also, why tell us about this now and not d1? What changed other than your ability to be coached in the mafia qt?

On mobile right now but will post quotes showing why your case on me has errors soon.

Nice diversion, Squiggs!

[worcej]

[snip...]

Well since you went ahead and posted that, I was definitely one of the people inclined to believe you also PR/scum/SK-slipped on D1 by reacting and questioning my slip how you did. I did not want to stone you because it could reveal another PR, but since you've just effectively outed yourself again, you might as well come more clean or maybe get shotgunned by (hopefully) the gun handed to someone from the Item Smith...

[flash2015]

[snip...]

Well since you went ahead and posted that, I was definitely one of the people inclined to believe you also PR/scum/SK-slipped on D1 by reacting and questioning my slip how you did. I did not want to stone you because it could reveal another PR, but since you've just effectively outed yourself again, you might as well come more clean or maybe get shotgunned by (hopefully) the gun handed to someone from the Item Smith...

I actually don't mind getting shot...because I think it would be worth it so that everyone can see we have found our first scum (Squigs).

[brainbomb]

Its cute flash thinks any scumteam would kill him

[Squigs44]

Here is Flash's case:

In voting for me Squigs didn't give **any** evidence at all (he said something like "someone else gave the evidence - that is why I am voting for flash")...then Squigs gave a very weak excuse to move away from me (suggesting he only voted me because I was still on BB, it wasn't due to any evidence - that doesn't sound very consistent). It also feels like Squigs interaction is of a shallower level than last game which just **feels** wrong.

Before I voted Flash I posted:

@brain - thoughts on Flash? He kinda popped in and then out. I don't think he's really contributed anything yet. His second post was literally to let us know it was his second post. Its only been a few hours, but I'm getting different vibes from him than last game

I am not believing Fox is scum currently. I don't know why a VT would be trying to claim VT so early in the game. It either draws attention to you if you are not VT ...and if you are VT it makes it easier for scum to find PRs.

I am liking the snowy wagon...but I don't want to move yet as I don't want to jynx it (I don't want to jump around too much without good reason). Also I am trying to keep my word BB wagon tradition...and I do like that the wagon annoys BB :).

Fox Flash scumteam right here?

Then my actual vote post:

Everyone is pushing on Flash, but no one is voting him. I'll start:

##vote flash

Then after my vote, several people asked me about my vote and I posted several times with this response:

Everyone is pushing on Flash, but no one is voting him. I'll start:

##vote flash

This isn't a reason to vote. @Squigs, I want an explanation. Why? Only scums do this.

Someone already asked this, and I already have an answer, but I know there is a lot to read. Before this post, I had a couple of other posts calling out Flash for things he did that were scummy. Those posts, combined with a couple posts from others led me to vote for Flash.
For a recap: Flash has been contributing far less than last game. He has been defensive and hedgy. There is also a possible connection of him and Fox being scumbuddies.

I admit I should have done a better job of explaining my voting in my actual vote post, but I felt like it was obvious that there were things Flash did that I thought were scummy. I'm not sure where your comment about me saying someone else gave the evidence came from. I believe I was the first one to start pointing out scummy behavior from you, so I definitely wasn't following there.

With regards to my vote change, here is that post:

Although I see the merit in the snowy and Bo trains, I prefer the Ezio train over those two. My Flash vote has served its purpose to put pressure on Flash. Still think he is scummy, but doesn't look like that train is gonna leave the station today.

Ezios posts have been useless. Furthermore, when ghug pointed out that his question about the most important post was obvious, he said that he knew it was obvious and it was a low probablility way to catch someone who gave a bad answer. Ezio didn't even follow up that argument with a more productive question or comment, he just tried to argue that he was being more productive than it seemed.

Snowy on the other hand, has been joking around, and has admitted and owned up to voting or posting with little reasoning. My impression is that he could be town and instead of trying to come up with some far-fetched reasoning on who to vote on the little information we have D1, he is shaking things up and testing out people's reactions. Snowy could still very likely be scum, but I like his tone better than Ezio's.

##vote Ezio

As you can see, my reasoning for moving off Flash was because I didn't think he would be a wagon and I don't like wasting my vote. I clearly explained why I thought Ezio was scummy.
@Flash - where in my posts do I say I was only voting you because your vote was on BB and not on evidence? Stop making things up.

As far as shallower interactions go, this is probably your most valid point. Remember last game I didn't play day 1 though, so I didn't have to deal with the lack of info. My analysis and interactions get better as the game goes on, when we have more info. I've also been busier this game so far, and haven't had time to sift through 90 pages of spam. Sunday I should be able to devote much more time to the game.

[flash2015]

Here is Flash's case:

In voting for me Squigs didn't give **any** evidence at all (he said something like "someone else gave the evidence - that is why I am voting for flash")...then Squigs gave a very weak excuse to move away from me (suggesting he only voted me because I was still on BB, it wasn't due to any evidence - that doesn't sound very consistent). It also feels like Squigs interaction is of a shallower level than last game which just **feels** wrong.

Before I voted Flash I posted:

@brain - thoughts on Flash? He kinda popped in and then out. I don't think he's really contributed anything yet. His second post was literally to let us know it was his second post. Its only been a few hours, but I'm getting different vibes from him than last game

I am not believing Fox is scum currently. I don't know why a VT would be trying to claim VT so early in the game. It either draws attention to you if you are not VT ...and if you are VT it makes it easier for scum to find PRs.

I am liking the snowy wagon...but I don't want to move yet as I don't want to jynx it (I don't want to jump around too much without good reason). Also I am trying to keep my word BB wagon tradition...and I do like that the wagon annoys BB :).

Fox Flash scumteam right here?

Then my actual vote post:

Everyone is pushing on Flash, but no one is voting him. I'll start:

##vote flash

Then after my vote, several people asked me about my vote and I posted several times with this response:

This isn't a reason to vote. @Squigs, I want an explanation. Why? Only scums do this.

Someone already asked this, and I already have an answer, but I know there is a lot to read. Before this post, I had a couple of other posts calling out Flash for things he did that were scummy. Those posts, combined with a couple posts from others led me to vote for Flash.
For a recap: Flash has been contributing far less than last game. He has been defensive and hedgy. There is also a possible connection of him and Fox being scumbuddies.

I admit I should have done a better job of explaining my voting in my actual vote post, but I felt like it was obvious that there were things Flash did that I thought were scummy. I'm not sure where your comment about me saying someone else gave the evidence came from. I believe I was the first one to start pointing out scummy behavior from you, so I definitely wasn't following there.

With regards to my vote change, here is that post:

Although I see the merit in the snowy and Bo trains, I prefer the Ezio train over those two. My Flash vote has served its purpose to put pressure on Flash. Still think he is scummy, but doesn't look like that train is gonna leave the station today.

Ezios posts have been useless. Furthermore, when ghug pointed out that his question about the most important post was obvious, he said that he knew it was obvious and it was a low probablility way to catch someone who gave a bad answer. Ezio didn't even follow up that argument with a more productive question or comment, he just tried to argue that he was being more productive than it seemed.

Snowy on the other hand, has been joking around, and has admitted and owned up to voting or posting with little reasoning. My impression is that he could be town and instead of trying to come up with some far-fetched reasoning on who to vote on the little information we have D1, he is shaking things up and testing out people's reactions. Snowy could still very likely be scum, but I like his tone better than Ezio's.

##vote Ezio

As you can see, my reasoning for moving off Flash was because I didn't think he would be a wagon and I don't like wasting my vote. I clearly explained why I thought Ezio was scummy.
@Flash - where in my posts do I say I was only voting you because your vote was on BB and not on evidence? Stop making things up.

As far as shallower interactions go, this is probably your most valid point. Remember last game I didn't play day 1 though, so I didn't have to deal with the lack of info. My analysis and interactions get better as the game goes on, when we have more info. I've also been busier this game so far, and haven't had time to sift through 90 pages of spam. Sunday I should be able to devote much more time to the game.

You must have seen my slip - why didn't you or Darg mention it? Surely it is an important piece of evidence against me if you really thought I was scum. I believe it would give you cover if I rolled PR (oh, I didn't see that).