M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[BesharamSabi]

Chaqa starting the TFB wagon in the last hour of D1, then jumping off when it took the lead, makes it look like bussing. Why start a new wagon in the last hour unless you would like to see it happen?

This is why I'm wondering if it wasn't celaph, but TFB, who was being protected on Day 1. The sudden and weird shift onto Kak could be explained that way, as could Snowy's NK.

But did you read bozo post. He is asking why did u start the tfb wagon and then jump off it?

[BesharamSabi]

Can't tell if ghug is buddying me or not

ghug doesn't buddy people, so default to not.

What? I buddy people constantly.

Oh stop buddying me ghug

[BesharamSabi]

Done updating sheet for night 1

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... p=drivesdk

Boatman was simping Chaqa hardcore, Chaqa congrats.

Jamiet simped for brainbomb. The love triangle grows.

There's a few observations I made about certain interactions (or lack of) between people. I don't want to reveal that because I don't want to influence it so I'm going to observe day two and see if the numbers change or not.

Interesting stuff.

Not opening the link (primarily because work computer etc) but I find it very unpractical to publicly be utilizing an interaction tool to try to find people who may or may not be scum. Is this the gist of it?

If so, this type of analysis is great when it's employed later in the game when we know a scum player, but doing it now (aka live) just allows any scum to force interactions (or lack of them) to throw you off the scent and setup miskills.

Agreed it might be more useful if held until later but I disagree it is useless completely. It is hard to fake engagement and if people try to game it and act unnatural they should be easier to catch.

Yep its somewhat easy to figure out natural vs forced interaction.

[TheFlyingBoat]

in my heart of hearts I feel similarly, but I want to hit mafia much more

my best guess is TFB and Chaqa

That was... surprisingly less content for such a massive vote swing. Strange, and worth pondering

I will concede that wagonomics do not favor celaph based upon read, but neither does that mean TFB is not scum

In fact pretty sure TFB went out of his way to save celaph and never voted him despite being a viable counterwagon, if that sways any of ye "celaph is scum" bandwagoners

My guess is that one of these 2 posts resulting in the mafia NKing snowy despite knowing he was a potential doc save target.

Awfully convenient you don't think it was one of his few good posts where he points to you, blamp, and celaph

[ghug]

What has given you the idea that I am capable of saving town!celaph and I am shirking or half assing my town responsibility to follow through on it? I would have to convince at least 5 voters that my other scumreads are better than their own. I have produced a weak case on pyxxy which nobody really cared about, and beyond that I know snowy was after TFB alot and snowy died so TFB seems like a decent cw.

of my other scumreads everyone just keeps telling me no so ive just decided to focus on the ones that are possible that I feel strongly about.

Im not a convincing person and I never have been. people usually just think my ideas are wild theories with no validity and they prefer their own gut instincts and reasoning over mine

Why on earth would I kill Snowy if I were scum? If I were scum why would any mafia team let me kill Snowy there instead of a better target?

Like it doesn't make sense. Yes Snowy pressured me, but his attacks were weak and self defeating. If he were scum I would want him alive so he could keep making those self defeating attacks so that I could get free engagement points off of it and suck the air out of the room while not fearing being day killed given his best argument against me was that I kept running away from him and hiding when a cursory analysis showed that I had both talked to him and analyzed/talked about him a lot.

On the other hand killing him would lead to bad but easily eaten up arguments like this that are based on the logic that Snowy pressured me therefore I killed him to escape that pressure, which other voters are much more likely to believe than Snowy's presses, so it actually serves to drive up the heat on me which scum!me would want to avoid.

Somebody thought a lot about how he would deal with snowy if he were scum...

[TheFlyingBoat]

Flash wagon one of them?

No to worcej, he hasn't even gotten a chance to play yet. No to RDR he is a likely mod kill or sub. Sure to Kak, but I think Chaqa>Demon>Kak>Celaph would be my kill list at this is point. Kak is at least here and seems to be posting something even if it isn't great.

TFB setting up his EOD movement could be scum motivated.

Or I'm just posting my evolution of reads and their relative strength to explain why Kak is no longer one? I tend to like posting ordered lists and care about if other people's lists are ordered (if you remember last game I got harangued last game for asking ghug if his lists were ordered or not). Simple as that.

[ghug]

ghug doesn't buddy people, so default to not.

What? I buddy people constantly.

Oh stop buddying me ghug

From my point of view, I was the first vote on damo. Thanks for buddying me!

[Chaqa]

No. It's a terrible idea.

Agreed. Damo is coretown.

How tf if damo coretown?

He townslipped, and also his posts have reminded me much more of townDamo than scumDamo.

[BesharamSabi]

What? I buddy people constantly.

Oh stop buddying me ghug

From my point of view, I was the first vote on damo. Thanks for buddying me!

I voted for damo first smh.

Get out of my head?

[TheFlyingBoat]

What has given you the idea that I am capable of saving town!celaph and I am shirking or half assing my town responsibility to follow through on it? I would have to convince at least 5 voters that my other scumreads are better than their own. I have produced a weak case on pyxxy which nobody really cared about, and beyond that I know snowy was after TFB alot and snowy died so TFB seems like a decent cw.

of my other scumreads everyone just keeps telling me no so ive just decided to focus on the ones that are possible that I feel strongly about.

Im not a convincing person and I never have been. people usually just think my ideas are wild theories with no validity and they prefer their own gut instincts and reasoning over mine

Why on earth would I kill Snowy if I were scum? If I were scum why would any mafia team let me kill Snowy there instead of a better target?

Like it doesn't make sense. Yes Snowy pressured me, but his attacks were weak and self defeating. If he were scum I would want him alive so he could keep making those self defeating attacks so that I could get free engagement points off of it and suck the air out of the room while not fearing being day killed given his best argument against me was that I kept running away from him and hiding when a cursory analysis showed that I had both talked to him and analyzed/talked about him a lot.

On the other hand killing him would lead to bad but easily eaten up arguments like this that are based on the logic that Snowy pressured me therefore I killed him to escape that pressure, which other voters are much more likely to believe than Snowy's presses, so it actually serves to drive up the heat on me which scum!me would want to avoid.

Somebody thought a lot about how he would deal with snowy if he were scum...

Or it's just an on the spot rebuttal to why it's a fundamentally poorly thought out argument? Care to engage with the substance of it at all or is a lazy sideswipe the name of the game here?

[Chaqa]

@Sabi
You reference this as the crap explanation?

I was trying to catch a mafia fake claiming the roleblock…

And from my perspective, this fits more of Chaqa's town playbook than being an openly stupid scum trying to see if his team's RB hit the cop or JOAT, of which only a couple would know (this is based on my understanding the doctor will never receive an RB message because they'll never know if they were needed or not, per my question @ Bob during the signup thread)

Do you have a link to Bob explanation? I missed that

It's in the OP

[ghug]

Oh stop buddying me ghug

From my point of view, I was the first vote on damo. Thanks for buddying me!

I voted for damo first smh.

Get out of my head?

Yeah, but I hadn't read that far when I voted for him.

[Chaqa]

Chaqa starting the TFB wagon in the last hour of D1, then jumping off when it took the lead, makes it look like bussing. Why start a new wagon in the last hour unless you would like to see it happen?

This is why I'm wondering if it wasn't celaph, but TFB, who was being protected on Day 1. The sudden and weird shift onto Kak could be explained that way, as could Snowy's NK.

But did you read bozo post. He is asking why did u start the tfb wagon and then jump off it?

My suspicion on TFB wasn't that strong at the time. I mostly voted him for not seeming to be reading the game. Other people piled onto it.

Saying I started the wagon, while technically correct, gives me much more credit than I would claim for it.

[ghug]

Why on earth would I kill Snowy if I were scum? If I were scum why would any mafia team let me kill Snowy there instead of a better target?

Like it doesn't make sense. Yes Snowy pressured me, but his attacks were weak and self defeating. If he were scum I would want him alive so he could keep making those self defeating attacks so that I could get free engagement points off of it and suck the air out of the room while not fearing being day killed given his best argument against me was that I kept running away from him and hiding when a cursory analysis showed that I had both talked to him and analyzed/talked about him a lot.

On the other hand killing him would lead to bad but easily eaten up arguments like this that are based on the logic that Snowy pressured me therefore I killed him to escape that pressure, which other voters are much more likely to believe than Snowy's presses, so it actually serves to drive up the heat on me which scum!me would want to avoid.

Somebody thought a lot about how he would deal with snowy if he were scum...

Or it's just an on the spot rebuttal to why it's a fundamentally poorly thought out argument? Care to engage with the substance of it at all or is a lazy sideswipe the name of the game here?

Snowy good and snowy PR are enough for the NK to make sense, but I find the idea that you wouldn't kill a strong player who has you pegged because he's nice to have I'm the thread a little absurd.

[BesharamSabi]

@Sabi
You reference this as the crap explanation?
And from my perspective, this fits more of Chaqa's town playbook than being an openly stupid scum trying to see if his team's RB hit the cop or JOAT, of which only a couple would know (this is based on my understanding the doctor will never receive an RB message because they'll never know if they were needed or not, per my question @ Bob during the signup thread)

Do you have a link to Bob explanation? I missed that

It's in the OP

Ahh im dumb. Why would doctors not be notified about an rb? Let's say if a JOAT does the doctor power thingy and was rb, would they be notified of that or?

(sorry for these questions)

[BesharamSabi]

OK so reading up on JOAT, are we sure JOAT didn't kill snowy and mafia kill was saved by the doc/roleblocked by whomever?

[BesharamSabi]

OK so reading up on JOAT, are we sure JOAT didn't kill snowy and mafia kill was saved by the doc/roleblocked by whomever?

Disregard the roleblock. There's no town Roleblocker.

[Chaqa]

Do you have a link to Bob explanation? I missed that

It's in the OP

Ahh im dumb. Why would doctors not be notified about an rb? Let's say if a JOAT does the doctor power thingy and was rb, would they be notified of that or?

(sorry for these questions)

The idea is that you would only get notified if a result you expected didn't happen. I.E. if a Cop doesn't get a scan result, or a JOAT gets refunded their one-shot use by the roleblock.

Actually, I think I've found a bit of a flaw in the setup I missed during review.

##CallGM: since the Doctor cannot target the same player twice in a row, if they were roleblocked while protecting player X, would they still be unable to target player X the following night?

[Chaqa]

OK so reading up on JOAT, are we sure JOAT didn't kill snowy and mafia kill was saved by the doc/roleblocked by whomever?

I was just thinking this. It's possible, but there's no way of knowing.

Hell, it's also possible Snowy was Flipper that picked VT and got shot by Vig.

You never know in these games

[President Eden]

OK so reading up on JOAT, are we sure JOAT didn't kill snowy and mafia kill was saved by the doc/roleblocked by whomever?

would eagerly refund the JOAT’s bullet so they could shoot themselves if this is what happened