M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[ghug]

##VOTE damo

Can't tell if ghug is buddying me or not

ghug doesn't buddy people, so default to not.

What? I buddy people constantly.

[brainbomb]

credit brain for better posting this phase + coming back after claiming he was leaving to engage with thread

@pyxxy////why?

[Maniac]

<Snip>

On Maniac it was mostly to do with his determined protection of Celaph and his pledge to murder anyone who tried to flip Celaph - and his repeated scumread of Chaqa yet, when it came to the crunch, being totally unwilling to vote Chaqa. However, in recent pages, Maniac has addressed that and, moreover, I am now townreading Chaqa, so I am moving on from that position and Maniac is back to null for me, even though he appears to be voting me.
<snip>

When did I pledge to murder anyone who tried to flip Celaph?

More lies from Jamie (The person who policy daykilled my good buddy Flum for lying last game).

I'm now really eggstatic to be voting Jamie

[TheFlyingBoat]

Sorry for wall posts, but though this was interesting and useful if I get miskilled.

Some thoughts

<snip>
Celaph - I won’t vote Celaph today.
Chaqa - would vote for Celaph which makes me want to kill him now. Would more than happily vote Chaqa today.
Jamie - I’d be eggstatic to vote for Jamie today and any other day.
<snip>

When Sabi asked me to expand on my Chaqa read I said...

Chaqa - would vote for Celaph which makes me want to kill him with a blunt screwdriver now. Would more than happily vote Chaqa and then do an Irish jig today.

When BusinessLamp asked me to explain my voting I said...

<snip>
27 mins to go, I have a choice between TFB, Celaph, Chaqa and Kak. I’m town reading Celaph and Chaqa’s only -ve point is he wanted Celaph dead but that’s not really alignment indicative. So I was left choosing TFB over Kak, (who I’d already said I wouldn’t vote for easily). So TFB was best of bad choices.

Few minutes to go the two lead wagons were Celaph and Kak. As I town read Celaph, Kak was the only other choice unless someone got flash wagoned.

Stop reading for a second and consider how strong my Chaqa read was.

Ok you can now all start reading again...

That is interesting. Maniac trying to buddy/pocket Celaph or Maniac-Celaph scum team? Part of me leans the latter given I think I have Celaph as a scum lean, but that's so blatant from Maniac that part of me wonders if it is the former. I lean the latter personally as I think Maniac hopes we'll write it off as Maniac being Maniac, but I am curious as to your conclusion.

As for him never mentioning me at all before lumping me in with snowy and ghug without explanation and then voting for me after saying he doesn't like any of the major wagons? Mildly odd. One thing to note is that during this time, Chaqa is the third major wagon, tied with celaph. If he voted for Chaqa, as Sabi, Jamie, and I lobbied him to do Chaqa could have been tied for the lead. Maniac's strongest target was Chaqa. He had the shot and gave no indication his read on Chaqa changed and emphasized his read on Celaph was the same, but yet he didn't take the shot. Why?

Either Maniac is insane or at a minimum 2 of the 3 of Chaqa, Maniac, and Celaph are scum imo.

This is a good post.

@Maniac: Why didn't you join the Chaqa wagon at EoD? It was a viable wagon, you were around for at least part of EoD, and you'd previously called Chaqa out as a major scumread.

The question needs to be asked..."Why are people misrepresenting my read on Chaqa?" It's a day one read that was even a scum read, more a 'he's trying to kill my town read' kinda read. But TFB says chaqa was my strongest scumread and Jamie says chaqa was my major scumread. This seems a concerted and even coordinated attempt to get me miskilled.

It's also interesting when TFB says 'Maniac is either insane or scum'. So when I flip town, TFB can shrug and say, 'Oh he must've been insane then.

Jamie's vote for me is even more suspicious. In one post he moves from 'I'm doubting my town read on Maniac' to @maniac is in my scum pool'. Then he agrees with TFB (so he can perhaps deny responsibility) and then references Eden's post about me as an excuse to vote for me. (again leaving wriggle room to deny liability for killing town!Me).

When I do flip town remember this post - respect the dead and all that.

##VoteJamie

Whilst I don't agree with BusinessLamp's analysis on me, I don't find his motives suspicious.

I mean throughout all this time you've never actually mentioned what my -ve aspect was that caused you to prioritize me over Chaqa. I'm not deadset on you by any means given that I'm voting for Celaph and not you right now and am open to hearing an argument I'm wrong but it's been a long ass time and you haven't even really attempted to make this argument or told me anything useful that would make me question my scum read.

[ghug]

Chaqa starting the TFB wagon in the last hour of D1, then jumping off when it took the lead, makes it look like bussing. Why start a new wagon in the last hour unless you would like to see it happen?

This is why I'm wondering if it wasn't celaph, but TFB, who was being protected on Day 1. The sudden and weird shift onto Kak could be explained that way, as could Snowy's NK.

Sure could.

[ghug]

TL;DR on Chaqa - I don't think scum!Chaqa would risk being openly scum in the off chance to verify if his team hit the cop or JOAT.

It's far too much of a risk to get information that would be dependent on the PRs being stupid and blurting it out when it's established that role blocks will not receive a message normally.

Chaqa scum confirmed.

[damo666]

Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.

Who did you steal this quote from?

[brainbomb]

Great minds discuss ideas. Average minds discuss events. Small minds discuss people.

Who did you steal this quote from?

Socrates

[rdrivera2005]

I think the fact celaph wasnt killed by Joat indicates that the Joat doesnt beleive celaph is scum. which is interesting and obviously joat dont react to this but if there is a PR on the fence about a particular consensus read should that give us pause or do we just think the Joat is justified in saving their kill for a later time? I feel like flipping celaph via joat kill was probably a decent play here and unless celaph is the joat maybe we should prop up a viable counter wagon which can actaully make this day interesting

I propose we make the counter wagons from pyxxy, flyingboat, and one of our absentee players worcej or rdrivera

discuss
I prefer we not use today to hammer celaph

I am not absentee today. Kill me because of D1 if you want, but today I am tryng to read and provide content at the expense of many other things I should be doing.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Done updating sheet for night 1

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... p=drivesdk

Boatman was simping Chaqa hardcore, Chaqa congrats.

Jamiet simped for brainbomb. The love triangle grows.

There's a few observations I made about certain interactions (or lack of) between people. I don't want to reveal that because I don't want to influence it so I'm going to observe day two and see if the numbers change or not.

Interesting stuff.

Not opening the link (primarily because work computer etc) but I find it very unpractical to publicly be utilizing an interaction tool to try to find people who may or may not be scum. Is this the gist of it?

If so, this type of analysis is great when it's employed later in the game when we know a scum player, but doing it now (aka live) just allows any scum to force interactions (or lack of them) to throw you off the scent and setup miskills.

Agreed it might be more useful if held until later but I disagree it is useless completely. It is hard to fake engagement and if people try to game it and act unnatural they should be easier to catch.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Scumlean me more. Chaqa, as member of kouncil, should have known better when he knew this set up was different

Clearly he did know it was different, but he thought some other people wouldn't be so aware, hence what he tried to do.

Sabi, if your objective is to make me townread Chaqa, you are doing well so far.

Jamie you will never see eye to eye with me so I'm not going to bother convincing you. Plus you're Chaqa simp so needless I say more.

This isn't useful.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Scumteam
sabi
pyxxy
ghug
and one other person among tfb-eden-rivera

What makes me Eden and rivera a linked pool? I can understand linking me and Eden given our numerous interactions, but how does rdr fit in the puzzle with either of us?

[ghug]

Who did you steal this quote from?

Socrates

It's got his characteristic myopic hypocrisy. Insulting people by saying only losers talk about people.

[rdrivera2005]

@damo

sabi claimed vt day one under minimal pressure and said just kill me then so people can actuall scum hunt

I noticed you are listing players you think are vt’s and you did not include sabi

is there any constructive reason why youd be advertising who you think is a vt?

They did include me in the townie list?

im saying he didnt list you as vt and youre the only person who has claimed vt

In fact I claimed 100% confirmed vanilla chicken ®

[TheFlyingBoat]

I actually think this part was towny as it was a legit way to see who'd react (including borks like me who hadn't noticed Bob's unusual rule, but also possibly other reactions).

You're the only one who thinks that. It was a way to pr hunt by scum.

Do you think that level of wolfing (probably not using the term correctly here) would be in Chaqa's scum game?

Absolutely? Given his 11-1 game surely it's clear he can mk without arousing suspicion.

[BesharamSabi]

Why I'm voting for you :

The eod thing
The beginning of day stuff irt roleblock
You and Maniac weird connection
Your pattern of announcing afks

Don't act obtuse.

First two are not scum behavior.

What maniac connection? I don’t think I’ve had any meaningful interactions with him. He’s barley posted.

Pattern of announcing AFKs that you never went back to finish investigating? And what investigations you did do found me doing it in one scum game and one town game.

Probably one of the shittiest set of reasons to vote for someone I’ve ever heard

I think what Sabi is mentioning wrt Maniac is when I pointed out that despite desperately wanting to kill you and declaring so multiple times, when given the option to do so, maniac declined for a wagon that was lower down his priority list at EOD and his explanation of the action made zero sense

Boatman is correct puke emoji here.

[TheFlyingBoat]

What has given you the idea that I am capable of saving town!celaph and I am shirking or half assing my town responsibility to follow through on it? I would have to convince at least 5 voters that my other scumreads are better than their own. I have produced a weak case on pyxxy which nobody really cared about, and beyond that I know snowy was after TFB alot and snowy died so TFB seems like a decent cw.

of my other scumreads everyone just keeps telling me no so ive just decided to focus on the ones that are possible that I feel strongly about.

Im not a convincing person and I never have been. people usually just think my ideas are wild theories with no validity and they prefer their own gut instincts and reasoning over mine

Why on earth would I kill Snowy if I were scum? If I were scum why would any mafia team let me kill Snowy there instead of a better target?

Like it doesn't make sense. Yes Snowy pressured me, but his attacks were weak and self defeating. If he were scum I would want him alive so he could keep making those self defeating attacks so that I could get free engagement points off of it and suck the air out of the room while not fearing being day killed given his best argument against me was that I kept running away from him and hiding when a cursory analysis showed that I had both talked to him and analyzed/talked about him a lot.

On the other hand killing him would lead to bad but easily eaten up arguments like this that are based on the logic that Snowy pressured me therefore I killed him to escape that pressure, which other voters are much more likely to believe than Snowy's presses, so it actually serves to drive up the heat on me which scum!me would want to avoid.

[BesharamSabi]

That addresses the first part - what about the second?

Yes because this type of roleblock feature hasnt been the norm for a while now so someone, who isn't aware of the new set up, would have said oh wait I was roleblocked and thus putting themselves as pr.

And yes I do think Chaqa is brazen enough to do this as scum. His excuse when he got caught was 100% cap.

Except that there's clearly enough doubt about his intentions.

He's done this before, toe the PR hunting line and play it off as something else when called out.

I don't get why people think Chaqa is too dumb to make a play like this. Chaqa is very smart and he knew what he was doing.

The two above highlighted sections cannot live in the same reality.

Sabi: are you not thinking this through, or are you deliberately trying to push for my miskill?

I'm not trying to push for miskill, I do think you're scum. I will layoff you for the rest of the day and persue other prospects. It's better if I make myself stop thinking about something for a time so that I can relook at things with fresher eyes hence why I dropped the blamp phone thing.

[BesharamSabi]

Okay, let's all ##Vote Damo today. That's a good idea.

No. It's a terrible idea.

Agreed. Damo is coretown.

How tf if damo coretown?

[BesharamSabi]

@Sabi
You reference this as the crap explanation?

guarantee* Chaqa just forgot how the rb worked

I was trying to catch a mafia fake claiming the roleblock…

And from my perspective, this fits more of Chaqa's town playbook than being an openly stupid scum trying to see if his team's RB hit the cop or JOAT, of which only a couple would know (this is based on my understanding the doctor will never receive an RB message because they'll never know if they were needed or not, per my question @ Bob during the signup thread)

Do you have a link to Bob explanation? I missed that