M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[President Eden]

You knew what the set up was and the fact this feature hasn’t been the norm in the last 6 games. Stop making excuses for being scummy.

##VOTE chaqa

How come you immediately knew this, but you were totally wrong about whethe there’s a Miller?

If you scroll a couple of after that I said:

Chaqa, eden, demon and I were in a vc discussing mafia set ups. They were helping me plan mine and mentioned the roleblock thing. I was like oh shit that’s cool and added it to my own mafia set up hence why I remembered that.

Its not a gotcha.

Demon and Eden can verify that.

Chaqa memory sucks.

yea I don’t remember anything of what was said in this conversation either, but I remember this conversation occurring, so I believe you.

[celaph]

In case this goes south:

The kind and wordy way that PE is contributing with makes me think that he is town. He is starting conversations and leading town in the right direction.

I've liked the way that ghug has pushed back against PE on things that have also caught me as suspect. This is within ghug's scum abilities, but I've liked him so far.

Blamp has improved back to normal town blamp from last game. His ideas are consistent and feel like they are coming from a towny place.

Jamie feels like he has been upset at all the things that I would expect town Jamie to be upset about. Don't just say that "this is within scum Jamie's range". That's a cop out.

Sabi/TFB scummy. Kak's reason for voting me is terrible.

gosh its almost like you couldve joined a sabi wagon all day and just instead chose to do your best dorian gray impression.

while were on that subject hows the attic? have you dusted up there?

I wasn't about to cast my vote at 3am and by the time I was back online Sabi wasn't a wagon no more.

More importantly, however, while I find Sabi's behavior suspicious, that suspicion is in part because I see dem shifting back from deir previously defeatist perspective into a style that dey knows has gotten them townread in the past and is easy to execute. That said, I think deir play has been pro-town to this point and so I was hesitant to kill dem D1 for reasons that are heavily meta based.

I think deir recent work on the spreadsheets exemplifies this. There is a formalism to it that makes it conceptually easy to fake if requiring a lot of time, but at the same time puts information out there in a way that helps town. And so while it's easy to say that this could be faked, I don't think it is. Instead a town Sabi who knows how dey can contribute to town and is executing on it.

[BesharamSabi]

How come you immediately knew this, but you were totally wrong about whethe there’s a Miller?

If you scroll a couple of after that I said:

Chaqa, eden, demon and I were in a vc discussing mafia set ups. They were helping me plan mine and mentioned the roleblock thing. I was like oh shit that’s cool and added it to my own mafia set up hence why I remembered that.

Its not a gotcha.

Demon and Eden can verify that.

Chaqa memory sucks.

yea I don’t remember anything of what was said in this conversation either, but I remember this conversation occurring, so I believe you.

If I didn't copy that roleblock idea (I thought it was Chaqa idea for the mini hence why I asked if it was for this set up or Chaqa) I would not have remembered it tbf.

[celaph]

Then kak came with his return post which imo had the same motivation behind it as the post I used to nail celaph to the cross at the EoD2 last game. If not for that I am probably voting Celaph at the EoD1 as he was 4th on my list.

and what motivation is that? because to me the only clear motive I saw was “survive,” which anyone in Kak’s shoes would have, town or mafia.

I think town people are likely to go after more than the primary wagon and the third wagon when they are the second wagon and post actual reads and thoughts they think will help town win. I mean look at last game when I was town. I basically had my vote stuck on Vecna and was pushing for his wagon all day. I also pointed out celaph and his sus posts with an hour to go, but stayed on the wagon I believed more in until it was clear that it was dead at which point I switched to Celaph and pushed for that wagon with 10 mins to go. At the time I switched though, Celaph was only on 2 votes and I made it 3 while I was the lead wagon on 6. In the end I made the case and that plus ghug pointing out my lack of a fake claim helped get scum!Celaph killed. That's what I expect town to do in kak's position.

But Kak wasn't the second wago, when he voted, he was the fourth. You, me, and Chaqa were all ahead of him. Going off of Sabi's comments at the time, I think he was killed because of how the way he placed his vote was perceived.

[BesharamSabi]

I do not accept the premise of your question, I voted for BusinessLamp as my preferred wagon 5 hours before EOD. When BusinessLamp was not a possibility in the last hour, I voted for TFB on snowy's recommendation. 43 seconds before EOD, with the vote tied, I voted for Kakarroto because I thought he was marginally more likely to be mafia than celaph. I did not consider TFB's vote when making that decision, since I did not know TFB's alignment.

Why did you decide to go with Snow's recommendation?

Do you still think BusinessLamp is scum?

snowy has a good record on early reads (when town).

I still think BusinessLamp could be mafia, but I am far from certain.

So I'm reading bozo night iso (only three posts, sad!)

Hm I do like his reasoning on snowy. Does this make me scum read him less, no. But I want to circle back on this and see how bozo talks about night kills.

Thats my conclusion theflyingsimp

[brainbomb]

I have no idea whats even happening anymore.

[ghug]

Anyone roleblocked?

I was NOT roleblocked.

Case in point

[ghug]

I changed my mind

everyone should report they weren’t roleblocked

I report that everyone wasn't roleblocked

[President Eden]

I changed my mind

everyone should report they weren’t roleblocked

I report that everyone wasn't roleblocked

based

[BesharamSabi]

I think celaph is the day 2 kill unless cop comes back with a guilty and claims it. otherwise yea celaph is most likely day 2 death. im concerned with how having a runaway consensus death will impact thread quality day two. whether it will create a stale environment of apathy or if it will just ultimately be something useful that results in a flip we want to see. either way my confidence level in celaph flipping scum is far lower now than it was late day 1

Hey brainbomb,

Quick question.

You said this a prior page before this comment:

there are plenty of level headed folks who pushed both cel and kak who can easily just be collectively wrong on both instances - and this includes myself. I reread celaph and found a number of posts that dont raise any alarms at all

Why did your mindset about celaph change between oh not many of his posts raise alarm to well we should D2 kill him?

[brainbomb]

ah finally a subject I understand


I was roleblocked

[ghug]

ah finally a subject I understand


I was roleblocked

That subject being fakeclaims?

[brainbomb]

ah finally a subject I understand


I was roleblocked

That subject being fakeclaims?

[brainbomb]

I think celaph is the day 2 kill unless cop comes back with a guilty and claims it. otherwise yea celaph is most likely day 2 death. im concerned with how having a runaway consensus death will impact thread quality day two. whether it will create a stale environment of apathy or if it will just ultimately be something useful that results in a flip we want to see. either way my confidence level in celaph flipping scum is far lower now than it was late day 1

Hey brainbomb,

Quick question.

You said this a prior page before this comment:

there are plenty of level headed folks who pushed both cel and kak who can easily just be collectively wrong on both instances - and this includes myself. I reread celaph and found a number of posts that dont raise any alarms at all

Why did your mindset about celaph change between oh not many of his posts raise alarm to well we should D2 kill him?

I dunno
guess I was bored

[brainbomb]

but really im not convinced celaph is scum. I like some of his posts day 1

[celaph]

I don’t love either lead wagons. Unless a third candidate comes into play then I think ##vote TFB is marginally better than a Kak kill.

TFB was only mentioned once before this without any explanation or interaction from Maniac side.

Also this is weird thing to point out

##vote Kakarroto

(As I Town read Celaph)

I don't get the point of pointing this out/repeating how much he town reads celaph

That is interesting. Maniac trying to buddy/pocket Celaph or Maniac-Celaph scum team? Part of me leans the latter given I think I have Celaph as a scum lean, but that's so blatant from Maniac that part of me wonders if it is the former. I lean the latter personally as I think Maniac hopes we'll write it off as Maniac being Maniac, but I am curious as to your conclusion.

As for him never mentioning me at all before lumping me in with snowy and ghug without explanation and then voting for me after saying he doesn't like any of the major wagons? Mildly odd. One thing to note is that during this time, Chaqa is the third major wagon, tied with celaph. If he voted for Chaqa, as Sabi, Jamie, and I lobbied him to do Chaqa could have been tied for the lead. Maniac's strongest target was Chaqa. He had the shot and gave no indication his read on Chaqa changed and emphasized his read on Celaph was the same, but yet he didn't take the shot. Why?

For reference:

Some thoughts

Chaqa - would vote for Celaph which makes me want to kill him now. Would more than happily vote Chaqa today.

Chaqa - would vote for Celaph which makes me want to kill him with a blunt screwdriver now. Would more than happily vote Chaqa and then do an Irish jig today.

@chaqa and Ghug. Oh come on! Iso Celaph. They advise us that chickens eat carrots, politely stands up for Autists without attacking people, sees the best in Jamie and expresses concern for Macca’s situation. Sure they haven’t done anything to help town win the game, but we just can’t daykill them today and anyone trying to (looking at you Chaqa) is a monster.

Either Maniac is insane or at a minimum 2 of the 3 of Chaqa, Maniac, and Celaph are scum imo.

Why don't you consider town Maniac in your early paragraphs? In my mind, the most suspicious part of Maniac's actions are that his explanation of his read of me doesn't read like a townread, but rather a protect read. He straight up says "Sure they haven’t done anything to help town win the game, but we just can’t daykill them today". That isn't a thing you say when you actually townread someone, but something you say when you want to keep me alive for other reasons. This doesn't match his EOD vote where he says that he actually townreads me.

That said, you're portraying him as someone who is obsessively talking only about me when he isn't. I think it's rather natural that he's spoken multiple times about someone he both townreads and was the main cw at EOD. And, more importantly to why I don't think he's trying to pocket me, is that I've been satisfied with his posts outside of the focus on me. I think his reads list lays out his standing rather clearly and I liked his take on Macca subbing out.

I dislike this feeling that TFB's post comes in with an agenda.

[BesharamSabi]

but really im not convinced celaph is scum. I like some of his posts day 1

Can you point out the posts?

I did find you and snowy interactions during night time interesting (in a good way).

[BesharamSabi]

Okay so damo is the first vote on Kak, a random vote. Seven hours before end of day damo names kak/snowy/demon/bozo as his scum team guess, not elaborating beyond "they're scummiest."

Two hours before end of day:

Glad to see the Sabi wgon dissipate.

Disappointed to see the Eden wagon emerge. I doubt all 4 people on that wagon are town.

The people who swung on Eden were Demon/Bona/Snowy/Chaqa. Damo then makes this post, where he names the same four suspects as prior:

Willing to vote any of Kak/Demon/Snowy or at a push Bozo.

I will not be available for the last hour of the D.

So my question I guess is, if you already suspected those four, and Demon and Snowy both just did something additionally worrisome, what makes you keep your vote on Kak there? Why did you think Kak was scummy throughout the day?

Seems like it could just be consistency for sake of keeping story straight

I like this from blamp. Did damo ever respond to this?

[brainbomb]

Snowy was bad, now good. Initial focus on Kak was artificial, but his current posting style around reminds me of the time we miskilled him because he didn't explain his scumread on ghug well. He's calling out worthwhile points, but giving no thought to why they are worth while.

Sabi has transitioned from deir defeatist attitude into just asking what others think of specific people. This both helps town a more and is also far more likely to be faked. Might switch if they turn the questions into something useful, but otherwise I fear scum here.

PE, BB, and ghug are all town on the day. No change to the scum on Blamp.

I've liked the arguments put forth by BB regarding TFB. To add my 2 cents, the following is a question you ask not because you particularly care about the answer, but rather because you think of it as the type of question that town should ask.

Continuing with the catch up, ignoring the effects of snowy trolling you in your view, how has your read of Sabi evolved and why given their posts after you called them out?

fantastic celaph post very in line with their usual townplay

[brainbomb]

Because I'm fucking annoyed at his behavior and have been since sign ups.

I'm sorry I don't make my personal dislike of people hidden or whatever.

I still have contributed to this game in terms of hunting

i like sabi's response posts to me and the previous one to eden about jamie, the one where they iso jamie. feels genuine

Do dey feel genuine in an alignment indicative way though? Because I agree that Sabi feels genuinely upset about Jamie, but it seems all external to the game. Dey even left Jamie off deir reads list. Though that last point counts in deir favor for deir desire to move past it and solve.

also great points and theyre still valid