M73 - Fowl Play - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Chaqa]

Chaqa can you explain this (I'm doing the interaction thing) but you voted for celaph anyways?

Baiting the hook

What do you mean?

Starting to sow seeds to see who would jump off of or away from the celaph wagon

[BesharamSabi]

Baiting the hook

What do you mean?

Starting to sow seeds to see who would jump off of or away from the celaph wagon

What info did you gain from doing this?

[ghug]

Why do you stan Eden? I agree with Sabi's earlier comments that it's incredibly bizarre how a full half of your posts have been focused on dem and yet your primary read take away is from about Eden.

i stanned eden because of how they engaged with sabi at the time. pressuring sabi early is more likely to be revealing bc they are more emotive and reactive. also the "i didnt check my role" stuff just bothers me on a game rules level

I like how this fits with both your early focus on Sabi and with your choice of the word stan. Feels quite honest.

This is the sort of post that I've felt celaph was missing in his scumgames, though I imagine he's realized that and changed if he's scum again.

[ghug]

THE PHONE STORY IS OFF. HIS DEFENSE OF IT SEEMS WEIRDLY EXCESSIVE.

Sabi tunneling away on this one thing as some kind of evidence of Lamp being scum is ridiculous.

It makes Sabi look very towny though.

[Bonatogether]

THE PHONE STORY IS OFF. HIS DEFENSE OF IT SEEMS WEIRDLY EXCESSIVE.

Sabi tunneling away on this one thing as some kind of evidence of Lamp being scum is ridiculous.

It makes Sabi look very towny though.

i disagree with this. their story changed over the course of our argument which is very ??? in my view. it's not necessarily scum, as it is sabi, but i don't believe it's towny

[Bonatogether]

@sabi how does your spreadsheet work? i'm having trouble reading it

[President Eden]

Sabi tunneling away on this one thing as some kind of evidence of Lamp being scum is ridiculous.

It makes Sabi look very towny though.

i disagree with this. their story changed over the course of our argument which is very ??? in my view. it’s not necessarily scum, as it is sabi, but i don’t believe it’s towny

ghug’s right.

write this down in your homework son, both because it is a historic occasion for me to utter the above words, and because there’s a lesson here.

as a heuristic (so don’t take this as gospel, it’s not always true, it’s just a trend), mafia are more likely to keep their stories straight than town. people getting passionately entrenched in a plainly inconsistent position and moving the goalposts to protect that position are more likely townies clinging to what they think they have than they are mafia (who, having the advantage of knowing basically all the information, can simply pick a position consistent with what the town knows in the first place).

to really use this you want to look to whether there was mafia motivation to defend that specific ground despite the cost in looking inconsistent (because as much as inconsistency isn’t really a mafia tell, townies love killing people based on it). if there isn’t an apparent mafia motivation for getting that entrenched, it’s probably a townie

[Jamiet99uk]

So jamie, the hammer is to make a statement. I don't like the lack of pressure that subs get. Nothing about macca was AI, and if meta holds worc would just be allowed to coast until like D3 on no content.

I'm not even going to go into the low hanging fruit of how subs influenced the last game.

I feel that many of the most pushed points today are fucking lazy, as I stated in my angry wall.

My main question is this:

After a full catchup, is Sabi still your odds-on largest scumread? And who are your top three?

Did Jamiet ever respond to this?

Yes, I did.

[TheFlyingBoat]

That was... surprisingly less content for such a massive vote swing. Strange, and worth pondering

I will concede that wagonomics do not favor celaph based upon read, but neither does that mean TFB is not scum

In fact pretty sure TFB went out of his way to save celaph and never voted him despite being a viable counterwagon, if that sways any of ye "celaph is scum" bandwagoners

I don't think what I did constituted saving celaph at all. I put him in my scum pool, made it clear where in the priority list he was, and at the point where it was clear the chaqa wagon was dead was considering switching to celaph because in my view the kak wagon was dead too. Then kak came with his return post which imo had the same motivation behind it as the post I used to nail celaph to the cross at the EoD2 last game. If not for that I am probably voting Celaph at the EoD1 as he was 4th on my list.

[BesharamSabi]

@sabi how does your spreadsheet work? i'm having trouble reading it

Vertical axis: players post

Horizontal: each time a player was mentioned, referenced, quoted, or replied to

[President Eden]

Then kak came with his return post which imo had the same motivation behind it as the post I used to nail celaph to the cross at the EoD2 last game. If not for that I am probably voting Celaph at the EoD1 as he was 4th on my list.

and what motivation is that? because to me the only clear motive I saw was “survive,” which anyone in Kak’s shoes would have, town or mafia.

[BesharamSabi]

maybe we should trust that ghug is bussing bozo

Since kak flipped town, should we keep a note of this or is it not worth relooking at?

[President Eden]

maybe we should trust that ghug is bussing bozo

Since kak flipped town, should we keep a note of this or is it not worth relooking at?

whose permission do you need to keep a note of it?

[ghug]

##Vote celaph

We jebaited them into trying to save him

PILE ON

This is kinda hype

[BesharamSabi]

maybe we should trust that ghug is bussing bozo

Since kak flipped town, should we keep a note of this or is it not worth relooking at?

whose permission do you need to keep a note of it?

No one but I want to know if it's worth spending time on it or not.

[President Eden]

Since kak flipped town, should we keep a note of this or is it not worth relooking at?

whose permission do you need to keep a note of it?

No one but I want to know if it’s worth spending time on it or not.

who do you expect to know the answer to this, and why do you expect them to know it?

[ghug]

That was... surprisingly less content for such a massive vote swing. Strange, and worth pondering

I will concede that wagonomics do not favor celaph based upon read, but neither does that mean TFB is not scum

In fact pretty sure TFB went out of his way to save celaph and never voted him despite being a viable counterwagon, if that sways any of ye "celaph is scum" bandwagoners

Celaph looked like town at EoD to my eyes. My gut is saying the Kak wagon arose to save boat, who's done nothing to seem town, but I'll have to look closer.

[ghug]

It makes Sabi look very towny though.

i disagree with this. their story changed over the course of our argument which is very ??? in my view. it’s not necessarily scum, as it is sabi, but i don’t believe it’s towny

ghug’s right.

write this down in your homework son, both because it is a historic occasion for me to utter the above words, and because there’s a lesson here.

as a heuristic (so don’t take this as gospel, it’s not always true, it’s just a trend), mafia are more likely to keep their stories straight than town. people getting passionately entrenched in a plainly inconsistent position and moving the goalposts to protect that position are more likely townies clinging to what they think they have than they are mafia (who, having the advantage of knowing basically all the information, can simply pick a position consistent with what the town knows in the first place).

to really use this you want to look to whether there was mafia motivation to defend that specific ground despite the cost in looking inconsistent (because as much as inconsistency isn’t really a mafia tell, townies love killing people based on it). if there isn’t an apparent mafia motivation for getting that entrenched, it’s probably a townie

Agree with Eden yet again he must be scum

[BesharamSabi]

Some thoughts

Rdriveria - doing carnival gets him a pass for d1 I suppose
Damo - says he fell for bozo’s ruse and has contributed nothing so far. Hasn’t come under any pressure. I’d happily vote Damo.
Macca - flooded house gets him a D1 pass - hope everything is being sorted Macca.
Pyxxy - one posts that makes them look engaged and then very little follow up. I’d happily vote Pyxis today.
Bozo - unusually quiet. Hasn’t received any pressure. I’d happily vote Bozo today.
Celaph - I won’t vote Celaph today.
Chaqa - would vote for Celaph which makes me want to kill him now. Would more than happily vote Chaqa today.
Jamie - I’d be eggstatic to vote for Jamie today and any other day.
Snowy. Ghug and TFB - if push came to shove I’d vote for one of these.
I’d need a lot of convincing to vote for sabi, demon or Kakarroto.
President Eden is now off my kill list for now. ##unvote Eden

Rest are null.

Making a note he left out only Bona and blamp

[TheFlyingBoat]

Then kak came with his return post which imo had the same motivation behind it as the post I used to nail celaph to the cross at the EoD2 last game. If not for that I am probably voting Celaph at the EoD1 as he was 4th on my list.

and what motivation is that? because to me the only clear motive I saw was “survive,” which anyone in Kak’s shoes would have, town or mafia.

I think town people are likely to go after more than the primary wagon and the third wagon when they are the second wagon and post actual reads and thoughts they think will help town win. I mean look at last game when I was town. I basically had my vote stuck on Vecna and was pushing for his wagon all day. I also pointed out celaph and his sus posts with an hour to go, but stayed on the wagon I believed more in until it was clear that it was dead at which point I switched to Celaph and pushed for that wagon with 10 mins to go. At the time I switched though, Celaph was only on 2 votes and I made it 3 while I was the lead wagon on 6. In the end I made the case and that plus ghug pointing out my lack of a fake claim helped get scum!Celaph killed. That's what I expect town to do in kak's position.