M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

The last thing to consider here is his emotional investment. He's not seeming outwardly stressed or upset, and I don't see any great deal of doubt or uncertainty from him. I've seen town Jamie at a lot of KILOs, and this isn't the one I'm used to, which largely fits with the vibe read I've had for much of the game.

I'm beyond tired of people trying to read me on the basis of emotion. This is a hackneyed old trope that serves no purpose other than to irritate me.

[Jamiet99uk]

Assuming I'm scum, though, why the hell do I push to defend Durga? I've set up a bus, I've gotten on it early, there's wide support in the town for her death, and she's not even present. You've bussed enough in your life to know that that's not when you get off the wagon.

Set up a bus?

There's some revisionism going on here.

On D2 you had Durga and Damo (specifically and only those two, how about that?) in a pool of people you labelled "nulls I don't want to kill today, more likely to be valuable to town than scum".

Approaching EoD2 I suggested a flashwagon on Durga and you were against it.

On N2 you made one comment "I think Durga's scum" but didn't press the matter and gave no reasons.

On D3 you voted her for no stated reason and only later said to Damo, "scum Durga's bad at reaction posts".

This doesn't look like you seriously trying to set up Durga, to be honest.

[ghug]

Assuming I'm scum, though, why the hell do I push to defend Durga? I've set up a bus, I've gotten on it early, there's wide support in the town for her death, and she's not even present. You've bussed enough in your life to know that that's not when you get off the wagon.

Set up a bus?

There's some revisionism going on here.

On D2 you had Durga and Damo (specifically and only those two, how about that?) in a pool of people you labelled "nulls I don't want to kill today, more likely to be valuable to town than scum".

Approaching EoD2 I suggested a flashwagon on Durga and you were against it.

On N2 you made one comment "I think Durga's scum" but didn't press the matter and gave no reasons.

On D3 you voted her for no stated reason and only later said to Damo, "scum Durga's bad at reaction posts".

This doesn't look like you seriously trying to set up Durga, to be honest.

I wasn't trying to "set up" Durga. I'm saying that in a world where I'm scum, I've already put myself on the path of bussing her, so backtracking didn't make sense. You've ignored the core of the argument.

[Jamiet99uk]

As for why am I town?

I'm proud of my early catch of Foxcastle, and my case on Foxcastle included his connections to Durga. You should go back and look at it, it was pretty good.

I also encouraged Durga and Celaph to join me on Foxcastle, and wouldn't you know? They both refused to.

I was a deciding vote on Celaph. N2 I declared that Durga and Vecna were the two people I most wanted to vote for D3. I was directly and actively involved in town's victories in the first four days of the game.

I've tried hard this game and I genuinely want Town to win.

[Jamiet99uk]

Assuming I'm scum, though, why the hell do I push to defend Durga? I've set up a bus, I've gotten on it early, there's wide support in the town for her death, and she's not even present. You've bussed enough in your life to know that that's not when you get off the wagon.

Set up a bus?

There's some revisionism going on here.

On D2 you had Durga and Damo (specifically and only those two, how about that?) in a pool of people you labelled "nulls I don't want to kill today, more likely to be valuable to town than scum".

Approaching EoD2 I suggested a flashwagon on Durga and you were against it.

On N2 you made one comment "I think Durga's scum" but didn't press the matter and gave no reasons.

On D3 you voted her for no stated reason and only later said to Damo, "scum Durga's bad at reaction posts".

This doesn't look like you seriously trying to set up Durga, to be honest.

I wasn't trying to "set up" Durga. I'm saying that in a world where I'm scum, I've already put myself on the path of bussing her, so backtracking didn't make sense. You've ignored the core of the argument.

The words "set up" were your words, Ghug.

Sometimes people bus their scumbuddies without actually wanting them to die until later.

[Jamiet99uk]

Where's Kak?

[ghug]

Set up a bus?

There's some revisionism going on here.

On D2 you had Durga and Damo (specifically and only those two, how about that?) in a pool of people you labelled "nulls I don't want to kill today, more likely to be valuable to town than scum".

Approaching EoD2 I suggested a flashwagon on Durga and you were against it.

On N2 you made one comment "I think Durga's scum" but didn't press the matter and gave no reasons.

On D3 you voted her for no stated reason and only later said to Damo, "scum Durga's bad at reaction posts".

This doesn't look like you seriously trying to set up Durga, to be honest.

I wasn't trying to "set up" Durga. I'm saying that in a world where I'm scum, I've already put myself on the path of bussing her, so backtracking didn't make sense. You've ignored the core of the argument.

The words "set up" were your words, Ghug.

Sometimes people bus their scumbuddies without actually wanting them to die until later.

Right, but I said "set up a bus" and you contorted that into "set up Durga" which have different connotations.

[ghug]

Where's Kak?

Good question.

[Jamiet99uk]

I wasn't trying to "set up" Durga. I'm saying that in a world where I'm scum, I've already put myself on the path of bussing her, so backtracking didn't make sense. You've ignored the core of the argument.

The words "set up" were your words, Ghug.

Sometimes people bus their scumbuddies without actually wanting them to die until later.

Right, but I said "set up a bus" and you contorted that into "set up Durga" which have different connotations.

Could you explain how they are meaningfully different?

[ghug]

The words "set up" were your words, Ghug.

Sometimes people bus their scumbuddies without actually wanting them to die until later.

Right, but I said "set up a bus" and you contorted that into "set up Durga" which have different connotations.

Could you explain how they are meaningfully different?

"Set up Durga" implies to me a desire to frame her or at least to put her in a position to die, whereas setting up a bus implies putting oneself in a position to bus and/or gain credit from her eventual death.

[Jamiet99uk]

Right, but I said "set up a bus" and you contorted that into "set up Durga" which have different connotations.

Could you explain how they are meaningfully different?

"Set up Durga" implies to me a desire to frame her or at least to put her in a position to die, whereas setting up a bus implies putting oneself in a position to bus and/or gain credit from her eventual death.

Oh, I see.

Well from here, your original phrasing of "I've set up a bus, I've gotten on it early" implies "I created and pushed the Durga wagon" but now you're saying it did not mean that.

Ok.

[ghug]

Could you explain how they are meaningfully different?

"Set up Durga" implies to me a desire to frame her or at least to put her in a position to die, whereas setting up a bus implies putting oneself in a position to bus and/or gain credit from her eventual death.

Oh, I see.

Well from here, your original phrasing of "I've set up a bus, I've gotten on it early" implies "I created and pushed the Durga wagon" but now you're saying it did not mean that.

Ok.

I still purport that I did do that too, by stating a scumread and casting an early vote that lent momentum, but my issue is that you're still distracting from the meat of my argument: I was in a position to gain some amount of cred from Durga's death, and she was looking very unlikely to survive even that day, let alone significantly further into the game. Why does scum ghug jump off to push a second wagon?

[Jamiet99uk]

Oh, I see.

Well from here, your original phrasing of "I've set up a bus, I've gotten on it early" implies "I created and pushed the Durga wagon" but now you're saying it did not mean that.

Ok.

I still purport that I did do that too, by stating a scumread and casting an early vote that lent momentum, but my issue is that you're still distracting from the meat of my argument: I was in a position to gain some amount of cred from Durga's death, and she was looking very unlikely to survive even that day, let alone significantly further into the game. Why does scum ghug jump off to push a second wagon?

Why does Town ghug, who is confident that Durga is scum, try to push a counter-wagon to his scumread?

[ghug]

Oh, I see.

Well from here, your original phrasing of "I've set up a bus, I've gotten on it early" implies "I created and pushed the Durga wagon" but now you're saying it did not mean that.

Ok.

I still purport that I did do that too, by stating a scumread and casting an early vote that lent momentum, but my issue is that you're still distracting from the meat of my argument: I was in a position to gain some amount of cred from Durga's death, and she was looking very unlikely to survive even that day, let alone significantly further into the game. Why does scum ghug jump off to push a second wagon?

Why does Town ghug, who is confident that Durga is scum, try to push a counter-wagon to his scumread?

a) I also strongly scumread HR
b) A unanimous kill of someone who isn't talking gets us the dead scum but otherwise doesn't advance us in solving the game. Active EoDs are good for town.

[ghug]

Jamie, what have you done in this game that you wouldn't do as scum?

[ghug]

Hi Kak

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie, what have you done in this game that you wouldn't do as scum?

That's a trap question.

[Jamiet99uk]

Ghug, do you realise that if Kak is scum, town has lost?

[Kakarroto]

This is hard, that exchange here looks better for Jamie in my eyes. Maybe I'm overlooking something (well I just about got up, didn't think I'd play with the discord bunch as long as we did yesterday, so I should read it again just in case) but that's what I get out of it. Still, from a strict logical point, ghug looks more to be town overall. Jamie with all the reactions feels more like town though.

I have some theories in my head, one in which Jamie is mafia and trying to appear and feel as towny as possible, making ghug look bad, directing night actions so that he is unsure who of the surviving players is who then pointing out all the bad things he did. Then again I have the theory where ghug actively goes for those night actions so he can't pull out the card 'told you so' and doesn't need to change his reads. And some variations of those bullet points, like maf-Jamie thinking that maf-ghug thinks that maf-Jamie would do that and actively trying to produce that kind of situation to confuse. Maybe I'm overthinking it and it's much easier, but those are the kind of thoughts I had going to bed before.

I should read the current exchange again, maybe I'm noticing something that helps.

[ghug]

Ghug, do you realise that if Kak is scum, town has lost?

Yes, it's certainly feeling that way.