M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[TheFlyingBoat]

reading TFB the thing that stands out to me is the repeated need to mention "i did my own research on flum, i could've been lazy, but i wasn't!!!"

Now so far, I like Blamp and still think he is slight town, but if it comes late in the game and I am dead and Blamp is around and looking kinda sus, people should come back to this and look to the potential it is the latter option.

this sentence from night post reads as town because of the scenario, but i guess that's pretty easy to fake.

overall his stance on me is a bit sketchy. it reads as like "i know that lamp is towny... but mayyyybeee he isnt? i get that he's townie, but he's also null. we should keep an eye on him."

@TFB how much of your weariness towards me is because i tried to push votes on you at EOD yesterday?

Pretty much none. I actively try to avoid OMGUSing people as mentioned before. My greater risk is often in overcorrection rather than under. And yes my stance towards you is very unconfident because it varies depending on how much comfort/rust I think you have when it comes to mafia. The more comfort and the less rust the more scum I see you, the less comfort and more rust the more town I see you, if that makes sense.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I've been thinking more about Night 1.

Clearly the DL kill was PR hunting, so presumably my roleblock was as well, but I can't for the life of me figure out why scum would think I was a PR. I'm pretty sure anyone who has played with me enough (Durga, ghug, kgray, Bozo, Bona, lots more) would not think I'm a PR based off of my Day 1, and also would likely want to not give me any quasi-town clear (despite the natural suspicion that a roleblock brings being a competing theory in my head canon) so that I can be miskilled later.

This makes me wonder if the scum team is composed of players who are either new, returning, or semi-regulars.

I'm thinking a team made of players like BusinessLamp, celaph, HR, TFB, Donny, etc.

Not sure if I'm reading too much into it.

Doesn't this theory require that either there are no veteran, active players on the scum team or that the veteran player(s) on the scum team don't overrule the new, returning, or semi-regulars, as you say? I feel like if Durga, ghug, or kgray, or players of that sort were on the scum team, they would assert themselves a little bit more in the discussions of who to role block and who to kill rather than let the less experienced dictate the decision.

[BusinessLamp]

reading TFB the thing that stands out to me is the repeated need to mention "i did my own research on flum, i could've been lazy, but i wasn't!!!"

Now so far, I like Blamp and still think he is slight town, but if it comes late in the game and I am dead and Blamp is around and looking kinda sus, people should come back to this and look to the potential it is the latter option.

this sentence from night post reads as town because of the scenario, but i guess that's pretty easy to fake.

overall his stance on me is a bit sketchy. it reads as like "i know that lamp is towny... but mayyyybeee he isnt? i get that he's townie, but he's also null. we should keep an eye on him."

@TFB how much of your weariness towards me is because i tried to push votes on you at EOD yesterday?

Pretty much none. I actively try to avoid OMGUSing people as mentioned before. My greater risk is often in overcorrection rather than under. And yes my stance towards you is very unconfident because it varies depending on how much comfort/rust I think you have when it comes to mafia. The more comfort and the less rust the more scum I see you, the less comfort and more rust the more town I see you, if that makes sense.

i mean yeah i think you can see the progression naturally, unless you think i've been acting. which i guess could be the case, but feels like an unnecessary stunt to pull

[TheFlyingBoat]

I said "not used to playing mafia". Having kept up with the thread, I remembered him saying he'd played before.

Fine, but does the guy seem unused to play mafia? He has seemed rather adept and attuned to various heuristics and displayed a certain style that doesn't seem indicative of someone who is gripped by rust or feels particularly lost.

He absolutely feels gripped by rust. He's clearly highly competent, but he does and says things that don't quite fit with the meta. You're also ignoring the other part of the argument, which is that his switch to the non-main counterwagon makes more sense given his stated preference for killing you or Flum rather than just not killing Flum.

I mean couldn't you say the same about Bona who also delineated his preferences for kill as me > Flum > Bob?

[BusinessLamp]

nothing in vecna's iso rang alarm bells for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[celaph]

what does this mean

There have been some games where town Vecna didn't do much D1 and then had a series of catchup posts were he touches on many of the key points from the previous pages while adding his original thought and reads to them. I say that, though I just went back and skimmed our games together and only found him doing this D2 M65 so I think I have over estimated how much he's done it.

Specifically, with regard to Goldie's post, I was liking that not only was Goldie calling out the points that he thought were important, but also providing his own comments on them.

I was rubbed the wrong way a little on his response to my corrections, but I just quickly scanned ahead to see his posts and it looks like he just hasn't placed a ton of importance on those people so I'm coming around on it being a towny response.

At least celaph started wallposting again with actual thoughts.

@Celaph when did you start doing this? Have you already done it in the large swathes of D1 or is it a recent thing as Demon claims?

Started mostly today.

[celaph]

This is terrible reasoning. I don't think it is entirely fair to say that blamp is inexperienced and that the survivor doesn't translate over, because clearly blamp is acting like a reasonably experienced player, so saying that he can't be scum is really just not true. Blamp is towny but nowhere near towncore or even a strong townread because we don't know how he'd be playing this as scum

I agree that we can't say how he'd play as scum, but we can still easily comment on whether his actions seem to benefit town, which I think they absolutely have. He has been sharing his opinions, starting wagons, defending people he townreads. That's why he merits a townread.

That's not the point. The point is him being competent is not in and of itself worthy of a townread due to his newness, and his newness is a reason to be more skittish on the townreads with blamp

I think that there is a big difference between being competent and being towny and blamp has been both.

[Donny Dude]

There have been some games where town Vecna didn't do much D1 and then had a series of catchup posts were he touches on many of the key points from the previous pages while adding his original thought and reads to them. I say that, though I just went back and skimmed our games together and only found him doing this D2 M65 so I think I have over estimated how much he's done it.

Specifically, with regard to Goldie's post, I was liking that not only was Goldie calling out the points that he thought were important, but also providing his own comments on them.

I was rubbed the wrong way a little on his response to my corrections, but I just quickly scanned ahead to see his posts and it looks like he just hasn't placed a ton of importance on those people so I'm coming around on it being a towny response.

At least celaph started wallposting again with actual thoughts.

@Celaph when did you start doing this? Have you already done it in the large swathes of D1 or is it a recent thing as Demon claims?

Started mostly today.

Vecna, why does it matter when Celaph started posting again?
Seems pointless to ask

[BusinessLamp]

@celaph forgive me if this has already been asked in this way, but is there a reason you tend to avoid directly responding to posts with votes on you? behavior seems to have changed a bit after people commented on it

[celaph]

What do you think is the most suspicious thing in this game, celaph?

Going back and forth between Maniac's tunnel on Bob and the way that Bob has defended himself. But I think both have redeeming qualities to their play. I'm increasingly bothered by Chaqa's passivity and his flip on Bona didn't feel well justified.

What flip on Bona?

I don't think a downgrade from strong town to mild town is a flip

You can debate word choice, but the point is still there. You went from willing to die on a town Bona hill to 'ehhh he's kinda town' presumably because you were rb'd. Perhaps I'm just inexperienced with y'alls among us play, but I don't see a reason to suspect him over this.

[BusinessLamp]

@kgray @ghug @durga

thoughts on a donny vote?

i refuse to believe you aren't experienced at forum mafia

oh sorry just saw this post for first time when rereading donny bandwagon, would've clarified sooner if i saw this

[Bonatogether]

I mean he also literally said he's played forum mafia before. I still feel good about him but I'd be feeling better if he'd pointed that out himself.

Where did blamp say that?

opening post

i have no recollection of that

[Bonatogether]

@ghug wait did your reads list that I totally didn't read say you town read tfb

It does say that, yes.

Why do I feel like you only appear everytime someone mentions you

boat man is not having a townie game

[Bonatogether]

Don't have time to fully catch up before class, though I'll be back afterwards and around for a couple hours before EoD.

For the people on Bob's wagon, what do you make of his D1 EoD behavior? I agree that his aggression to the people on his wagon is scummy, but I see him being characterized as scum who is angry that he was caught early and I'm not seeing it. If that description is accurate, why would he just leave for 5 minutes and come back with a town case on rdr, the other main cw? I can see scum making such a play, but it would be a calculated and thoughtful scum play which doesn't fit well with the rest of Bob's behavior. I feel like the narrative of him being a town whose upset at the pressure, but still trying to solve is way more cohesive.

I think this is scum!celaph white knighting town!bob

[celaph]

@celaph forgive me if this has already been asked in this way, but is there a reason you tend to avoid directly responding to posts with votes on you? behavior seems to have changed a bit after people commented on it

A mixture of my energy level and what I think will come out for talking more about their read. For example, on your earlier vote you said you had no original thought and when I look at the reasons people expressed for being suspicious of me there were a lot of people calling out generally poor posts and so I don't think I'd get a lot out of pushing you on it.

[Bonatogether]

Comparing D1 activity to D2, it's interesting how much of a difference there is for some people. Notable ones include Bona (massive drop), Damo (moderate increase), and TFB (moderate decrease).

Raw data:

Code: Select all

	Posts	Words	Chars	W/Post	Player	Last (DL)
1	165	4821	24987	29.22	kgray	00:01
2	134	4333	23227	32.34	Jamiet99uk	00:03
3	132	1799	9578	13.63	Bonatogether	00:01
4	130	1866	9403	14.35	Durga	00:03
5	117	1729	8721	14.78	ghug	00:01
6	115	4725	24257	41.09	TheFlyingBoat	00:05
7	99	2365	12522	23.89	BobMcBob	00:02
8	96	1880	9486	19.58	DeathLlama8	00:01
9	94	3103	15657	33.01	Fluminator	00:01
10	89	2783	14342	31.27	BusinessLamp	00:01
11	78	1626	8007	20.85	Donny Dude	00:02
12	54	970	4892	17.96	Chaqa	00:14
13	40	1292	6600	32.30	DemonRHK	00:01
14	40	1255	6081	31.38	rdrivera2005	00:09
15	38	962	5014	25.32	celaph	00:04
16	36	1369	7198	38.03	Hellenic Riot	00:01
17	32	833	4350	26.03	bozotheclown	00:08
18	27	351	1859	13.00	damo666	02:42
19	20	314	1711	15.70	Vecna	00:49
20	17	1760	11498	103.53	BesharamSabi	00:05
21	17	520	2842	30.59	Foxcastle	07:40
22	8	639	3199	79.88	Maniac	01:03
23	3	459	2324	153.00	Tom Bombadil	05:24
24	3	123	583	41.00	goldfinger0303	1d 11h 59m
25	1	69	346	69.00	peterlund	1d 4h 39m
26	1	9	43	9.00	dargorygel	1d 20h 9m

Code: Select all

Posts	Words	Chars	W/Post	Player	Last (Now)
1	73	1531	7562	20.97	Durga	00:07
2	70	2000	10238	28.57	ghug	00:24
3	67	1900	9886	28.36	kgray	01:20
4	61	1297	6809	21.26	damo666	01:27
5	57	1785	9632	31.32	Jamiet99uk	01:53
6	48	2945	15357	61.35	BobMcBob	04:42
7	44	1142	5713	25.95	Chaqa	00:22
8	42	1344	7154	32.00	Vecna	02:25
9	38	2667	13613	70.18	goldfinger0303	01:05
10	35	1318	6838	37.66	BusinessLamp	02:00
11	30	533	2733	17.77	Bonatogether	02:15
12	28	1232	6564	44.00	celaph	12:38
13	18	662	3464	36.78	bozotheclown	00:40
14	17	2496	12647	146.82	TheFlyingBoat	00:08
15	17	610	3049	35.88	rdrivera2005	00:12
16	15	1713	9398	114.20	Hellenic Riot	02:50
17	12	494	2534	41.17	DemonRHK	12:26
18	9	1021	6450	113.44	BesharamSabi	01:14
19	8	583	3004	72.88	Donny Dude	02:13
20	3	741	3972	247.00	Tom Bombadil	04:18
21	3	638	3341	212.67	Maniac	12:23
695	28652	149958	41.23	Total Counts	

i've had a lot of stuff going on in the earlier part of the day, trying to contribute more now

[Bonatogether]

I've been thinking more about Night 1.

Clearly the DL kill was PR hunting, so presumably my roleblock was as well, but I can't for the life of me figure out why scum would think I was a PR. I'm pretty sure anyone who has played with me enough (Durga, ghug, kgray, Bozo, Bona, lots more) would not think I'm a PR based off of my Day 1, and also would likely want to not give me any quasi-town clear (despite the natural suspicion that a roleblock brings being a competing theory in my head canon) so that I can be miskilled later.

This makes me wonder if the scum team is composed of players who are either new, returning, or semi-regulars.

I'm thinking a team made of players like BusinessLamp, celaph, HR, TFB, Donny, etc.

Not sure if I'm reading too much into it.

This is kinda hokey. Who knows why scum do what they do - they might have picked up some random post as based on the same principle as the se7en crumb, they might have done it to confuse town, they might have done it to sneak scum in as soft!town

[Bonatogether]

Comparing D1 activity to D2, it's interesting how much of a difference there is for some people. Notable ones include Bona (massive drop), Damo (moderate increase), and TFB (moderate decrease).

Raw data:

Code: Select all

	Posts	Words	Chars	W/Post	Player	Last (DL)
1	165	4821	24987	29.22	kgray	00:01
2	134	4333	23227	32.34	Jamiet99uk	00:03
3	132	1799	9578	13.63	Bonatogether	00:01
4	130	1866	9403	14.35	Durga	00:03
5	117	1729	8721	14.78	ghug	00:01
6	115	4725	24257	41.09	TheFlyingBoat	00:05
7	99	2365	12522	23.89	BobMcBob	00:02
8	96	1880	9486	19.58	DeathLlama8	00:01
9	94	3103	15657	33.01	Fluminator	00:01
10	89	2783	14342	31.27	BusinessLamp	00:01
11	78	1626	8007	20.85	Donny Dude	00:02
12	54	970	4892	17.96	Chaqa	00:14
13	40	1292	6600	32.30	DemonRHK	00:01
14	40	1255	6081	31.38	rdrivera2005	00:09
15	38	962	5014	25.32	celaph	00:04
16	36	1369	7198	38.03	Hellenic Riot	00:01
17	32	833	4350	26.03	bozotheclown	00:08
18	27	351	1859	13.00	damo666	02:42
19	20	314	1711	15.70	Vecna	00:49
20	17	1760	11498	103.53	BesharamSabi	00:05
21	17	520	2842	30.59	Foxcastle	07:40
22	8	639	3199	79.88	Maniac	01:03
23	3	459	2324	153.00	Tom Bombadil	05:24
24	3	123	583	41.00	goldfinger0303	1d 11h 59m
25	1	69	346	69.00	peterlund	1d 4h 39m
26	1	9	43	9.00	dargorygel	1d 20h 9m

Code: Select all

Posts	Words	Chars	W/Post	Player	Last (Now)
1	73	1531	7562	20.97	Durga	00:07
2	70	2000	10238	28.57	ghug	00:24
3	67	1900	9886	28.36	kgray	01:20
4	61	1297	6809	21.26	damo666	01:27
5	57	1785	9632	31.32	Jamiet99uk	01:53
6	48	2945	15357	61.35	BobMcBob	04:42
7	44	1142	5713	25.95	Chaqa	00:22
8	42	1344	7154	32.00	Vecna	02:25
9	38	2667	13613	70.18	goldfinger0303	01:05
10	35	1318	6838	37.66	BusinessLamp	02:00
11	30	533	2733	17.77	Bonatogether	02:15
12	28	1232	6564	44.00	celaph	12:38
13	18	662	3464	36.78	bozotheclown	00:40
14	17	2496	12647	146.82	TheFlyingBoat	00:08
15	17	610	3049	35.88	rdrivera2005	00:12
16	15	1713	9398	114.20	Hellenic Riot	02:50
17	12	494	2534	41.17	DemonRHK	12:26
18	9	1021	6450	113.44	BesharamSabi	01:14
19	8	583	3004	72.88	Donny Dude	02:13
20	3	741	3972	247.00	Tom Bombadil	04:18
21	3	638	3341	212.67	Maniac	12:23
695	28652	149958	41.23	Total Counts	

I will point out that was I was second place in word count D1 and third place in D2. My activity has generally always been in chunks across all games especially post D1

This is just nitpicking and adds nothing of substance

[BusinessLamp]

okay ngl I thought flum was PR

god strike me down for going into night kill discussion against my better judgment but...

why are people saying DL was a PR kill when this post indicates he was likely not PR

it was prob just random to throw ppl

[Bonatogether]

I said "not used to playing mafia". Having kept up with the thread, I remembered him saying he'd played before.

Fine, but does the guy seem unused to play mafia? He has seemed rather adept and attuned to various heuristics and displayed a certain style that doesn't seem indicative of someone who is gripped by rust or feels particularly lost.

He absolutely feels gripped by rust. He's clearly highly competent, but he does and says things that don't quite fit with the meta. You're also ignoring the other part of the argument, which is that his switch to the non-main counterwagon makes more sense given his stated preference for killing you or Flum rather than just not killing Flum.

Of course he doesn't know the meta when he's never played here before