M72 - “Echoes of Evelyn” - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Durga]

My thoughts on Vecna are that the case seems to be that he hasn't done enough, and while I agree, I'm not sure I'm ready to bet on that making him scum quite yet - his activity is picking up at least. No clue about the RHK meta stuff

Has the discussion of RHK's meta changed your opinion of him at all?

I just said no clue about the RHK meta stuff. I remember RHK as scum being more low key than this RHK but that was also like 4 years ago. What do you think of Vecna?

[Durga]

Leaning back to scum on Bob now after gold's post and Demon not gaining traction so ##vote Bob.

This is probably my last post for about 24 hours.

I got 10 minutes before I have to go offline.

Does Demon not gaining traction actually make you scumread Bob more? Or do you just mean your preferred wagon isn't taking off?

I think he is just not caming back before EOD and choose to have a usefull vote between the top wagons.

There's so much time left.???

[ghug]

My thoughts on Vecna are that the case seems to be that he hasn't done enough, and while I agree, I'm not sure I'm ready to bet on that making him scum quite yet - his activity is picking up at least. No clue about the RHK meta stuff

Has the discussion of RHK's meta changed your opinion of him at all?

I just said no clue about the RHK meta stuff. I remember RHK as scum being more low key than this RHK but that was also like 4 years ago. What do you think of Vecna?

I thought that was in the context of Vecna, not RHK. I agree with everyone who disagreed with Vecna's meta read. I also really didn't like that post about me claiming a role, but I still think there are better options today. He's interacting enough to give us more to work on.

I'd vote for him over Bob or RHK though.

[Chaqa]

I fell asleep at lunch and got caught up in work, did I miss anything important?

I did see Jamie being Jamie in my catchup, but looks like HR and ghug handled that.

[Durga]

Why is he asking if he missed anything important when he said he did a catch-up and has barely been away

[Durga]

@ghug wait did your reads list that I totally didn't read say you town read tfb

[rdrivera2005]

Does Demon not gaining traction actually make you scumread Bob more? Or do you just mean your preferred wagon isn't taking off?

I think he is just not caming back before EOD and choose to have a usefull vote between the top wagons.

There's so much time left.???

This is what he said.

Leaning back to scum on Bob now after gold's post and Demon not gaining traction so ##vote Bob.

This is probably my last post for about 24 hours.

I got 10 minutes before I have to go offline.

[TheFlyingBoat]

I feel like I've been slacking off today, and I don't really like the wagons, so I'm gonna take stock of my thoughts. 90% of this is for me, so read at your own peril.

People I don't want to kill today because I townread them (this is ordered, TFB):
Lamp
Bob
Chaqa
bozo
Donny
Maniac
kgray
RHK
Boat

People I don't want to kill today because they're null reads and more likely to be valuable to town than scum:
Durga
Damo

Other people (scummier at the bottom):
gold
Vecna
Bona
Jamie
Rd
HR
Celaph


Honestly this is better than I thought it'd be. The scum pool is all pretty clustered, and Durga should probably be sitting next to gold there too, but I don't want to do that to either of them. The town pool is comfortably large. Some relevant thoughts on individuals:

RHK - Like gold, and I guess maybe also Bob in this game, he tends to say things that are just kinda icky and make us want to scumread him, so that needs to be considered. His vote for boat at EoD was also really bad, but I can't see him doing the stupid data thing as town, and his reaction to the roleblock nonsense was nice. I think killing him today is a mistake.

Bob - Again, probably harming his own case by being abrasive, but the guy is willing to talk a lot, and I think the explanation of his reaction to my roleblock claim is a little too intricate for him to have faked it. I've come around a lot to the townread.

Vecna - Fox wasn't playing great, so I get not townreading the slot, and Vecna seems likely to be useless, so I get not wanting to give him time, but how is this really anyone's best scumread at this point? It's a big fat load of nothing (with a beautiful, balding, burgundy head).

Damo - I feel like I usually have a stronger read. I disliked him early, and he remains kinda useless, but in a way that doesn't really strike me as scummy

Jamie, Rd - Dudes have sucked today, though I guess we all have. Jamie feels like he's coasting on being widely townread and rd feels like he's retreated after pressure to let us all attack each other instead.

HR - I've agreed with enough of his posts today that I'm slightly less inclined to kill him, not he's good enough (at this pointless game we play on the internet, don't let your ego get ahead of you) that I'm not gonna let that affect my read too much.

Boat - Has gotten a lot worse and nearly leapfrogged Damo in Durga in my list above. Needs to shape up.

With RHK I presume you meant you can't seem him doing the weird data thing as scum?

I do like the Bob re-eval even though I don't hold the same confidence in it as you do.

With Foxna, I think you understate the issues with Foxcastle's case and I get the feeling you are trying to kill the wagon while also still maintaining cover in case he does flip scum. Don't like this

According to you, Damo is pretty easy to read eventually (justification proffered to keep him alive both when you were scum and town iirc even when he looks bad). When do you think Damo will out himself to you? What makes him just seem bad town instead of scum?

Jamie, rd. Sure

HR ??? What was the basis under which you wanted to kill him in the first place? Maybe I missed it when I was following along, but I don't recall much other than you finding it weird he was on at EoD?

Me - yeah, I've sucked today. Should be better over the weekend when I have more time.


Anyways, questions regarding the ordering (since I do appreciate you ordering it), what makes you have Jamie below Vecna? I get being peeved by the perceived coasting, but that seems like a precipitous drop without the commensurate scummy behavior I would expect to justify it.

Next, why is Lamp so high in your list? I get the townread, he's done a lot of townie things and behaved far more experienced than you'd expect for someone that says they're brand new to forum mafia. I may be misremembering this but I think you mentioned you didn't like the Bona switch onto me at the end of they day as opposed to switching onto an actual counter wagon. Why do you not apply this same standard to lamp?

RHK - Yes

Vecna - Nah, it's a weak case.

Damo - Town damo is thinking about the game, his thought processes just don't make sense. Scum damo fakes this, and one can usually determine that there isn't a thought process.

HR - The activity at EoD was part of it. The fact that he spent the whole time shading every counter to Flum without really focusing on whether he scumread Flum, and specifically the way he generated his townread on Bob makes him look scummy.

Jamie - I scumread him yesterday too, so it's not a precipitous drop. I think the push on Flum is marginally more likely to come from scum Jamie than town Jamie, and he hasn't done anything else to impress me.

Lamp - I think the desire to get on the wagon you feel is best at the end is more likely to be legitimate coming from someone who's not used to playing mafia, and his stated preference was you or Flum rather than a flip from Flum to not Flum, so the whole thing irks me less than Bona's or RHK's vote. I appreciate the skepticism, as he'd definitely be better than most new players as scum, but I still think he's town.

How does this view change knowing now that Lamp is NOT a new player? As an aside, I feel kinda dumb for feeling like Perry Mason when I declared in my opinion that he was hiding the fact that he had played elsewhere before based on the heuristics he was employing not matching up with that of a supposed rookie/new player. Turns out he did say he played on MS before. Lol.

[TheFlyingBoat]

@ghug wait did your reads list that I totally didn't read say you town read tfb

It does say that, yes.

[Durga]

@ghug wait did your reads list that I totally didn't read say you town read tfb

It does say that, yes.

Why do I feel like you only appear everytime someone mentions you

[celaph]

Don't have time to fully catch up before class, though I'll be back afterwards and around for a couple hours before EoD.

For the people on Bob's wagon, what do you make of his D1 EoD behavior? I agree that his aggression to the people on his wagon is scummy, but I see him being characterized as scum who is angry that he was caught early and I'm not seeing it. If that description is accurate, why would he just leave for 5 minutes and come back with a town case on rdr, the other main cw? I can see scum making such a play, but it would be a calculated and thoughtful scum play which doesn't fit well with the rest of Bob's behavior. I feel like the narrative of him being a town whose upset at the pressure, but still trying to solve is way more cohesive.

[goldfinger0303]

I'd vote for him over Bob or RHK though.

ghug what do you think of Bob doing an ISO of me while "Expecting to scumread me" and then somehow being surprised that he did?

I agree on RHK - their meta is too similar as both town and scum, and while I'm not ruling out the possibility of them being scum, there's better marks today. Vecna I'm still not sold on though.

[Chaqa]

Comparing D1 activity to D2, it's interesting how much of a difference there is for some people. Notable ones include Bona (massive drop), Damo (moderate increase), and TFB (moderate decrease).

Raw data:

Code: Select all

	Posts	Words	Chars	W/Post	Player	Last (DL)
1	165	4821	24987	29.22	kgray	00:01
2	134	4333	23227	32.34	Jamiet99uk	00:03
3	132	1799	9578	13.63	Bonatogether	00:01
4	130	1866	9403	14.35	Durga	00:03
5	117	1729	8721	14.78	ghug	00:01
6	115	4725	24257	41.09	TheFlyingBoat	00:05
7	99	2365	12522	23.89	BobMcBob	00:02
8	96	1880	9486	19.58	DeathLlama8	00:01
9	94	3103	15657	33.01	Fluminator	00:01
10	89	2783	14342	31.27	BusinessLamp	00:01
11	78	1626	8007	20.85	Donny Dude	00:02
12	54	970	4892	17.96	Chaqa	00:14
13	40	1292	6600	32.30	DemonRHK	00:01
14	40	1255	6081	31.38	rdrivera2005	00:09
15	38	962	5014	25.32	celaph	00:04
16	36	1369	7198	38.03	Hellenic Riot	00:01
17	32	833	4350	26.03	bozotheclown	00:08
18	27	351	1859	13.00	damo666	02:42
19	20	314	1711	15.70	Vecna	00:49
20	17	1760	11498	103.53	BesharamSabi	00:05
21	17	520	2842	30.59	Foxcastle	07:40
22	8	639	3199	79.88	Maniac	01:03
23	3	459	2324	153.00	Tom Bombadil	05:24
24	3	123	583	41.00	goldfinger0303	1d 11h 59m
25	1	69	346	69.00	peterlund	1d 4h 39m
26	1	9	43	9.00	dargorygel	1d 20h 9m

Code: Select all

Posts	Words	Chars	W/Post	Player	Last (Now)
1	73	1531	7562	20.97	Durga	00:07
2	70	2000	10238	28.57	ghug	00:24
3	67	1900	9886	28.36	kgray	01:20
4	61	1297	6809	21.26	damo666	01:27
5	57	1785	9632	31.32	Jamiet99uk	01:53
6	48	2945	15357	61.35	BobMcBob	04:42
7	44	1142	5713	25.95	Chaqa	00:22
8	42	1344	7154	32.00	Vecna	02:25
9	38	2667	13613	70.18	goldfinger0303	01:05
10	35	1318	6838	37.66	BusinessLamp	02:00
11	30	533	2733	17.77	Bonatogether	02:15
12	28	1232	6564	44.00	celaph	12:38
13	18	662	3464	36.78	bozotheclown	00:40
14	17	2496	12647	146.82	TheFlyingBoat	00:08
15	17	610	3049	35.88	rdrivera2005	00:12
16	15	1713	9398	114.20	Hellenic Riot	02:50
17	12	494	2534	41.17	DemonRHK	12:26
18	9	1021	6450	113.44	BesharamSabi	01:14
19	8	583	3004	72.88	Donny Dude	02:13
20	3	741	3972	247.00	Tom Bombadil	04:18
21	3	638	3341	212.67	Maniac	12:23
695	28652	149958	41.23	Total Counts	

[kgray]

It seems to me Vecna is fabricating things, I was mafia with RHK once and I would say he was the opposite of agitated.

Prove it bozo!!! Where are your snippets?? Or are you just arguing with Vecna????

But actually it really annoys me that Vecna's response to me disagreeing with him was "where's your evidence?" when he provided no evidence of his own.

Good point, you should vote for Vecna.

I don't know what games Vecna is talking about, but the only games I remember offhand with RHK as mafia were M40 and M55. I must not have been in the game you were referring to.

I also do not know what games Vecna referenced to make his conclusion about Donny.

I mean I'd consider it.

btw I feel like bozo telling me to vote for someone is very unlike scum!bozo. Bozo, can you fact check me on that please?

[Durga]

And what does it tell you Chaqa

[kgray]

@ghug wait did your reads list that I totally didn't read say you town read tfb

afaik he's been townreading boatman since they 'argued' early D1. Somehow that makes them impossible scumbuddies in boatman's eyes....

[kgray]

Don't have time to fully catch up before class, though I'll be back afterwards and around for a couple hours before EoD.

For the people on Bob's wagon, what do you make of his D1 EoD behavior? I agree that his aggression to the people on his wagon is scummy, but I see him being characterized as scum who is angry that he was caught early and I'm not seeing it. If that description is accurate, why would he just leave for 5 minutes and come back with a town case on rdr, the other main cw? I can see scum making such a play, but it would be a calculated and thoughtful scum play which doesn't fit well with the rest of Bob's behavior. I feel like the narrative of him being a town whose upset at the pressure, but still trying to solve is way more cohesive.

"It's so towny for bob to make a town case on his own counterwagon" says celaph, making a town case on his own counterwagon.

But actually I kind of agree. I don't really see the bob case tbh.

[Chaqa]

And what does it tell you Chaqa

That Bona had a massive drop in activity, Damo had a moderate increase, and TFB had a moderate decrease.

[Durga]

Yeah I think I'm gonna ##vote tfb

[Chaqa]

I've been thinking more about Night 1.

Clearly the DL kill was PR hunting, so presumably my roleblock was as well, but I can't for the life of me figure out why scum would think I was a PR. I'm pretty sure anyone who has played with me enough (Durga, ghug, kgray, Bozo, Bona, lots more) would not think I'm a PR based off of my Day 1, and also would likely want to not give me any quasi-town clear (despite the natural suspicion that a roleblock brings being a competing theory in my head canon) so that I can be miskilled later.

This makes me wonder if the scum team is composed of players who are either new, returning, or semi-regulars.

I'm thinking a team made of players like BusinessLamp, celaph, HR, TFB, Donny, etc.

Not sure if I'm reading too much into it.