MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]

[kgray]

Nothing has caught my eye so far other than your townslip. Part of me thinks it is so blatantly staged it can't be true. I mean who unintentionally town slips like 4 times in a row in the first couple days? Then again maybe you do and it just is a real townslip.

I wasn't actually concerned about Flum leaving me out of his offer. I don't actually care. I was entirely fucking around.

Because it was a source of great shame and required an immediate explanation, duh.

I don't like that nothing at all has caught your eye besides Sabi's townslip

What AI stuff has caught your eye? So much which would normally be interesting in D1 seemed to be NAI as the biggest fight that took up multiple pages seemed to be one of egos and not one of in game substance. I'll look back through the thread later today as most of the National Signing Day stuff for CFB winds down and see if I am forgetting something I cared about from yesterday or if something means something more today, but right now the things I remember most from yesterday was the PE/Sabi stuff where he either pocketed them or was trying to draw out their views depending on how generous you want to be, meme trying to start a no vote party that everyone besides the anti-suffrage man doesn't seem to want to dry, the kgray/ghug vs PE fight that quickly became ghug vs PE, and then the post conflagration cool down

Okay. It feels like a lot has happened but I'll admit I'm not sure how much is alignment indicative. And I'm avoiding asking people if they think Eden's blowup is towny or scummy because I can't really decide myself. Seems unlikely to come from scum? idk

[Durga]

sabi is town and the townslip is not why.
sabi is town because they ask questions and demand answers to them and this is obvious in the sheer amount of curiousity being shown

Also it'd be really easy for Sabi to fall back on the "I don't know anything!" schtik they had before if they were scum and we would be like yeah fine - them engaging like this is good vibes

[Durga]

I feel like Sabi and Bona are town to be honest. I've seen him as scum once and it doesn't seem like he's playing like that to me.

Can you elaborate on what you think is different about Bona this game?

To me it seems like bona is being his annoying self, which makes me think he is town.

Omg he's engaging who is this

[kgray]

What was the townslip and why do people think they are real?

Sabi stating outright they believe that both mafia teams know the IDs of the other team. That's either mafia pretending to be mafia or Sabi misreading/not knowing the set up. Either way they think mafia should know something that based on my reading of the rules they do not.

I think it's entirely possible that scum-Sabi could have been confused about this.

How?

[Durga]

what is the purpose of these alliances? voting bloc alliances or is this just a fancy word for towncores and everyone abhors that word so were just pretending this is survivor for giggles?

if its the latter id say that was just pregame plans by certain players to have fun pretending this was a game theyd rather be playing

Hey I built a towncore the other game and it was a great time.

Fuck your town core

[kgray]

I think it's entirely possible that scum-Sabi could have been confused about this.

How? Either scum Sabi knows their two partners and three opposition scum members or they don't.

Lots of people don't pay attention to lots of things. I'm not saying Sabi is scum, I'm saying it's not sure that they're not.

If you believe that Sabi honestly thought the maf teams know each other, it is impossible to also think Sabi is mafia. The only way you can suspect Sabi is if you think they faked that assumption. Unless I'm missing some part of your reasoning?

[TheFlyingBoat]

sabi is town and the townslip is not why.
sabi is town because they ask questions and demand answers to them and this is obvious in the sheer amount of curiousity being shown

Hard disagree. This type of inquisitiveness isn't near as guaranteed proof as you make it out to be in a multi game. Mafia teams have very good reason to press hard on the hunt for the opposing team.

I dont think that sabi would be able to pull off this level of execution this early into a mafia career to dominate a thread and confidently go on the prowl this way regardless of if there were two mafia teams or seven

I do agree with that but then again the asking questions style is the only active and engaged style we've seen from them. We don't know what their scum game looks like and we don't know what other facets there are to their town game either simply because we haven't seen much variability in play. I'm reasonably confident that they are a vanilla townie this game based off of their aggression but I wouldn't ascribe the level of confidence you put on it yet. Whereas the town slip is a blatant case of town saying mafia knows X for sure when mafia doesn't know X. But I think we're mostly in agreement that Sabi is town and now we're going to fall into the trap out arguing for the sake of argument so I'll let it go

[Fluminator]

Kgray is town (even accounting for multi I've decided), and she can no longer be upset at me for scumreading her last game because all it would have taken for me to townread her was to act like this.

[ghug]

what is the purpose of these alliances? voting bloc alliances or is this just a fancy word for towncores and everyone abhors that word so were just pretending this is survivor for giggles?

if its the latter id say that was just pregame plans by certain players to have fun pretending this was a game theyd rather be playing

Hey I built a towncore the other game and it was a great time.

Fuck your town core

That's what the mafia said when they killed me.

[Foxcastle]

Sabi stating outright they believe that both mafia teams know the IDs of the other team. That's either mafia pretending to be mafia or Sabi misreading/not knowing the set up. Either way they think mafia should know something that based on my reading of the rules they do not.

I think it's entirely possible that scum-Sabi could have been confused about this.

That's the one option I discounted. Why do you think this?

No offense to them, but Sabi seems a little confused by some things, even though this is their 4th game. That's a general impression, but paired with the move over to Discord for the mafia chat, I think there's a chance that early on in the game, they might have been genuinely confused.

I really, really, fucking really do not want to open up the can of shitworms that is role PM analysis, but we don't actually know if the scum teams received a PM that lists their team mates. We only know that they were going to be provided additional information in a separate PM, which could have just been a discord link without listing who else is on the team.

To be clear, I am inclined to look favorably on Sabi's confusion. The slip points to town. I just don't think people should put too much faith in that alone.

[President Eden]

Last post, mostly for the benefit of my replacement, but also for my teammates.

- Sabi is very likely town (>90% confidence) because of this post, which can only be a townslip or a deliberately calculated fake townslip.

- I did some reflecting on kgray’s post here about me being condescending. I don’t really agree with the premise at all, but if it’s in reference to what I think it is, then it is a moderately strong (~70% confidence) indicator that she is town. I think it refers to this quote:

I don’t get the sense that you would miss something like this as town if you were reading as carefully as you normally do.

I think she took this as a slight on her abilities as town, when I was implying I thought she may be mafia (and eventually voted accordingly that same page). It strikes me that one could only conclude so definitively that it was a shot at her abilities if you were certain she were town. Certainly if she were mafia, you’d expect that to be read as an accusation and not an attack on her abilities. In M70 kgray reacted similarly to a largely analogous situation as the Oracle. With the caveat that kgray is a crafty mafia player and capable of faking something like this, I think the simplest answer - that she’s town and pissed at what she perceived as a slight on her play - is the right one.

- lfischl had a strong start. I haven’t read since my last post in here, but if he’s kept up his engagement and questioning then it’s going to be hard not to townread him I think. I’m not assigning a confidence level because it’s early, and don’t let him coast, but his play looks good so far.

- TO MY REPLACEMENT: If you get in trouble, my first post can bail you out.

Good luck team

[brainbomb]

bye eden
hope you find your dad

[Durga]

Leaning town on PE except for the stupid first post line

[Durga]

The thing about foxy is when he says scummy things he's probably town

[kgray]

I think it's entirely possible that scum-Sabi could have been confused about this.

That's the one option I discounted. Why do you think this?

No offense to them, but Sabi seems a little confused by some things, even though this is their 4th game. That's a general impression, but paired with the move over to Discord for the mafia chat, I think there's a chance that early on in the game, they might have been genuinely confused.

I really, really, fucking really do not want to open up the can of shitworms that is role PM analysis, but we don't actually know if the scum teams received a PM that lists their team mates. We only know that they were going to be provided additional information in a separate PM, which could have just been a discord link without listing who else is on the team.

To be clear, I am inclined to look favorably on Sabi's confusion. The slip points to town. I just don't think people should put too much faith in that alone.

Sabi has openly expressed their desire to be scum (on Discord, idk if they've said it on webDip), and I think it would be extremely unlikely for Sabi to roll scum and not excitedly read their PM/the rules enough to know that they don't know who the members of the other scum team are. And if they did think that they could know, they'd for sure have read enough about their potential role (and PM) to look for the members of the other scum team, and conclude that they could not know. I am personally willing to bet the game on my belief that scum!Sabi would not genuinely think the mafia teams know each other.

The chances that scum!Sabi faked the townslip are much higher, however imo they are still pretty low.

[ghug]

The thing about foxy is when he says scummy things he's probably town

Has Foxy said scummy things?

[Fluminator]

I really, really, fucking really do not want to open up the can of shitworms that is role PM analysis, but we don't actually know if the scum teams received a PM that lists their team mates. We only know that they were going to be provided additional information in a separate PM, which could have just been a discord link without listing who else is on the team.

@GM, is the list of mafia teammates in the separate PM?

[kgray]

The thing about foxy is when he says scummy things he's probably town

What scummy things has foxy said?

[kgray]

The thing about foxy is when he says scummy things he's probably town

Has Foxy said scummy things?

stop

[Foxcastle]

I really, really, fucking really do not want to open up the can of shitworms that is role PM analysis, but we don't actually know if the scum teams received a PM that lists their team mates. We only know that they were going to be provided additional information in a separate PM, which could have just been a discord link without listing who else is on the team.

@GM, is the list of mafia teammates in the separate PM?

UGHHHHHHHH