It's easier to offer game-agnostic advice than to tie yourself to thoughts.BesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:51 amLet's look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:ghug wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:40 amMy instinct as scum last game was to act like I was going to teach Sabi how to play. ##VOTE EdenPresident Eden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:21 am
I’m only asking to refine your process. We’ll get to a meaningful answer. We’re going to be working together for a while this game, and you want to keep learning and growing as a player. There will be a lot of questions and you will be even better by the end of it
You used the word “contribute.” In the context of mafia, what does that mean to you? (I happen to think I did contribute, but I don’t think it’s in the way you meant.)
It’s up in the air. They need to keep town divided, but they also need to eliminate each other. Multiple-mafia games play meaningfully differently from regular mafia games, but you can still apply a lot of the same town lessons from previous games.
Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.
Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?
MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
Forum rules
This is an area for forum games. Please note that to support mafia games players cannot edit their own posts in this forum. Off Topic threads will be relocated or deleted. Issues taking place in forum games should be dealt with by respective game GMs and escalated to the moderators only if absolutely necessary.
This is an area for forum games. Please note that to support mafia games players cannot edit their own posts in this forum. Off Topic threads will be relocated or deleted. Issues taking place in forum games should be dealt with by respective game GMs and escalated to the moderators only if absolutely necessary.
- ghug
- Bronze Donator
- Posts: 17581
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Karma: 11400
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
-
- Posts: 3445
- Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:50 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL
- Karma: 5057
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.President Eden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:58 amFirstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.BesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:51 amLet’s look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:
Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.
Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.
So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.
The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.
All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.
I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.
I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.
Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?
- ghug
- Bronze Donator
- Posts: 17581
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Karma: 11400
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
I mean, the posts are still shit...kgray wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:54 amYou've read the game up to this point and determined it will be a long shitpost phase? I was surprised at how fast it got serious for some peopleFoxcastle wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:38 am1. I fully support the prohibition on +1s.
2. Eden and Sabi are... something. I definitely haven't played with Sabi and I'm pretty sure I haven't played with Eden, but their reputations certainly do precede them.
3. This is going to be a long shitpost phase.
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
why do you think ghug and i are targeting Eden for helping you? neither of us areBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:15 amWell I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.President Eden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:58 amFirstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.BesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:51 amLet’s look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:
Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.
Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.
So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.
The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.
All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.
I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.
I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.
Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
explain?TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:22 am##Vote Eden
I feel like it would be a fun thing to do for now
- ghug
- Bronze Donator
- Posts: 17581
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Karma: 11400
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
Yeah, I didn't push Sabi towards specific conclusions at all. I resisted their questioning to teach them how to push. Try again.President Eden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:58 amFirstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.BesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:51 amLet’s look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:
Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.
Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.
So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.
The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.
All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.
- ghug
- Bronze Donator
- Posts: 17581
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Karma: 11400
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
- ghug
- Bronze Donator
- Posts: 17581
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Karma: 11400
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
Plus one
-
- Posts: 6907
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:11 pm
- Location: possibly Britain
- Karma: 9609
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
There are tactical reasons not to acknowledge townslips. For one, as you saw, the discussion was already necessarily detailed and a bit tedious. Cutting out a now-irrelevant thread helps, especially when it was plain as day to anyone reading along what had happened. For another, I got what I wanted out of that part of the exchange (Sabi’s alignment), so it was time to move along.kgray wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:09 amtbh I had no idea you were voting Sabi prior to your vote change
i never thought you missed it, i thought you ignored it. and if you’re scum then you’d know town!sabi is town, though that doesn’t apply as much here
thank you for the brevity in this post though, it actually did help me see your point. sorry, i’m probably gonna be lazy this game so i appreciate as many tldrs as you can provide
And while there’s not a lot of utility in this case (because the townslip was plain as day, I think), in general I think I perform better when I am not hipfiring everything I observe at the first opportunity. That slip doesn’t happen if I don’t ask the questions the way I did. Mafia are at an especially low point in terms of information, so keeping things to yourself can be beneficial in inducing mafia mistakes from imperfect information.
-
- Posts: 3445
- Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:50 pm
- Location: Chicago, IL
- Karma: 5057
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
You two have been the only ones direct about it. Foxcastle and Bona and brain bomb have merely hinted at it.kgray wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:17 amwhy do you think ghug and i are targeting Eden for helping you? neither of us areBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:15 amWell I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.President Eden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:58 am
Firstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.
So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.
The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.
All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.
I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.
I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.
Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?
I'm just wondering why.
-
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:24 pm
- Karma: 2498
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
? Eden and I went to rival university's and I like messing with the guy. Nothing much is known yet and it is as good of a place to park my vote as any before I am given reason to join a real wagon.brainbomb wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:17 amexplain?TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:22 am##Vote Eden
I feel like it would be a fun thing to do for now
- ghug
- Bronze Donator
- Posts: 17581
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Karma: 11400
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
I submit that removing Eden is pro-town regardless of his alignment. I'm already exhausted.President Eden wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:07 amI put it in two words. “UNVOTE Sabi.”
When lfischl asked for clarification, I put it in 13 words. “This vote increases my odds of voting for mafia from 0% to not-0%.”
Don’t put your sloppy attempt to look townie on me.
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
wait, maybe ghug is. i won't speak for him anywaykgray wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:17 amwhy do you think ghug and i are targeting Eden for helping you? neither of us areBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:15 am
Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.
I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.
I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.
Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?
- ghug
- Bronze Donator
- Posts: 17581
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Karma: 11400
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
I didn't know there were any universities worse than Eden's, but here we are at "university's" and now I'm wondering.TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:21 am? Eden and I went to rival university's and I like messing with the guy. Nothing much is known yet and it is as good of a place to park my vote as any before I am given reason to join a real wagon.brainbomb wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:17 amexplain?TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:22 am##Vote Eden
I feel like it would be a fun thing to do for now
-
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:24 pm
- Karma: 2498
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
My only defense is I used speech to text for everything after the first question mark, because I am cooking and did not read the message before hitting send. God that is embarrassing though.ghug wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:23 amI didn't know there were any universities worse than Eden's, but here we are at "university's" and now I'm wondering.TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:21 am? Eden and I went to rival university's and I like messing with the guy. Nothing much is known yet and it is as good of a place to park my vote as any before I am given reason to join a real wagon.
- ghug
- Bronze Donator
- Posts: 17581
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:51 pm
- Location: Seattle
- Karma: 11400
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
I suppose I am but there's more to it than that.kgray wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:21 amwait, maybe ghug is. i won't speak for him anywaykgray wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:17 amwhy do you think ghug and i are targeting Eden for helping you? neither of us areBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:15 am
Well I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can't blame me for the slight sus of this.
I do appreciate that we became friends in the last month and I greatly appreciate your advice on being a better player.
I guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.
Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
did you feel like ghug was pressuring you here?TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:25 amMy only defense is I used speech to text for everything after the first question mark, because I am cooking and did not read the message before hitting send. God that is embarrassing though.ghug wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:23 amI didn't know there were any universities worse than Eden's, but here we are at "university's" and now I'm wondering.TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:21 am
? Eden and I went to rival university's and I like messing with the guy. Nothing much is known yet and it is as good of a place to park my vote as any before I am given reason to join a real wagon.
-
- Posts: 1987
- Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2020 10:24 pm
- Karma: 2498
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
I felt like it was an appropriate response to an egregious mistake.brainbomb wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:27 amdid you feel like ghug was pressuring you here?TheFlyingBoat wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:25 amMy only defense is I used speech to text for everything after the first question mark, because I am cooking and did not read the message before hitting send. God that is embarrassing though.
-
- Posts: 6907
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:11 pm
- Location: possibly Britain
- Karma: 9609
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
Sure, and I don’t. I’m more annoyed with the laziness of other players who want their 25%-of-the-time-it-works-everytime heuristics to carry them instead of putting in the work. I didn’t townslip yet after allBesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:15 amWell I am sorry for being a tiny bit of wary (or vary) of it. Deathllama broke my brain last game so you can’t blame me for the slight sus of this.
![Very Happy :-D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
As I've reflected on it more, I would probably do this as either alignment, so who knows. It's more of a person than a role thing, I think.BesharamSabi wrote: ↑Wed Dec 15, 2021 2:15 amI guess I need to be better at reading between the lines when people are helping me to see if it fits mafia agenda or not.
Why are kgrey and G hug targeting you for helping me?
I think the last part is more of a question for them, but I think they were being lazy and taking the easy heuristics. I mean ghug is literally employing the “X did Y -> I wouldn’t do Y in this situation -> I am town -> town wouldn’t do Y in this situation -> X is not town” heuristic that did so well last game.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
-
- Posts: 6907
- Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:11 pm
- Location: possibly Britain
- Karma: 9609
- Contact:
Re: MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]
Yea in all honesty guys I don’t really enjoy playing mafia when I’m being constantly ragged on for how I play, even while it has generated the only decisive information of the game to this point.
If you think it’s pro-town to remove me from the game then continue.
If you think it’s pro-town to remove me from the game then continue.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: cdngooner, JustAGuyNamedWill, Wattsthematter and 207 guests