MAFIA 71: "PAPERS PLEASE" - GAME THREAD [Hidden]

[Durga]

Omg it's Foxy Knoxy

[President Eden]

meh I decided to be slightly less lazy and think about it myself, and I don’t like it. Very weird how serious he is about this whole conversation and yet he ignores that. Actually this whole conversation kinda feels awkward and forced

I pretty clearly acknowledged it with my actions and moved along to more productive enterprises:

##UNVOTE
##VOTE Durga

why?

This vote increases my odds of voting for mafia from 0% to not-0%.

I don’t get the sense that you would miss something like this as town if you were reading as carefully as you normally do.

Unfortunately this isn’t alignment-indicative for Bona.

===

Well I guess I do appreciate you trying to help me be a better player. I dunno why you want to but it’s nice of you to help me out. What happens if I don’t get better and not meet your expectations of me? Sad emoji face here.

Well, for one, you want to get better, and I think I can help.
More selfishly, I’m pretty confident we’re on the same team this game, and I think you will be generating a lot of discussion with the energy you’re bringing to the game. Making that discussion as productive as possible will make it easier to win.

In regards to contributing, I really don’t know why I used that for mafia besides to say I doubt anyone would produce a genuine answer to those questions. Maybe I used the wrong word. What do you feel like you contributed and why do you think I missed it?

By indicating it was your belief that the two mafia teams know each other, one of two things can be true:
1. You are town, and didn’t know that the mafia teams don’t know each other.
2. You are mafia, and intentionally pretended not to know this.
I think (1) is considerably higher than (2) (I called (2) a “0%” chance which is probably not right, but I think it’s very low). So I think you are very likely town, and that emerged due to our conversation. Hence, contribution.

On the other side of it, you think I was contributing by providing genuine answers, right? I guess more directly, how do these answers help you in solving the game?

I see in regards to multi mafia teams. Have you played any games with multiple mafia before?

It’s been a long time. I’m not really a fan of them, because they make it very easy for mafia to appear to hunt, and they make it harder for mafia to make informed decisions. That tampers with the “uninformed majority vs informed minority” dynamic that’s so fun in mafia. But they’re fine changes of pace.

[Bonatogether]

I don’t get the sense that you would miss something like this as town if you were reading as carefully as you normally do.

Unfortunately this isn’t alignment-indicative for Bona.

yo how do i come into this

[Foxcastle]

2. fabricate a think

2. Seems scummy to push that kind of behavior.

2. but it's really not cause it's open
manufacture an idea

2. "Fabricate," "manufacture"... These are really not things town should be doing, open or otherwise.

[Foxcastle]

Omg it's Foxy Knoxy

I only showed up for you.

[Bonatogether]

2. Seems scummy to push that kind of behavior.

2. but it's really not cause it's open
manufacture an idea

2. "Fabricate," "manufacture"... These are really not things town should be doing, open or otherwise.

2. i do it all the time and no one notices
pro life tip: be like bona

[BesharamSabi]

OMG eden stop with these endless questions about contribution. I beg you. I have no idea how to give you a meaningful answer lol.

I’m only asking to refine your process. We’ll get to a meaningful answer. We’re going to be working together for a while this game, and you want to keep learning and growing as a player. There will be a lot of questions and you will be even better by the end of it
You used the word “contribute.” In the context of mafia, what does that mean to you? (I happen to think I did contribute, but I don’t think it’s in the way you meant.)

So I guess the two mafia teams don’t know each other and rather kill town they kill each other. Somehow a town person is stuck in the crossfire. What is this, West side story? Well I’m glad scum teams are more focused on each other than killing town.

It’s up in the air. They need to keep town divided, but they also need to eliminate each other. Multiple-mafia games play meaningfully differently from regular mafia games, but you can still apply a lot of the same town lessons from previous games.

My instinct as scum last game was to act like I was going to teach Sabi how to play. ##VOTE Eden

Let's look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:

Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.


Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?

[President Eden]

yo how do i come into this

meh I decided to be slightly less lazy and think about it myself, and I don’t like it. Very weird how serious he is about this whole conversation and yet he ignores that. Actually this whole conversation kinda feels awkward and forced

the cagey gary is correct again

[Foxcastle]

2. but it's really not cause it's open
manufacture an idea

2. "Fabricate," "manufacture"... These are really not things town should be doing, open or otherwise.

2. i do it all the time and no one notices
pro life tip: be like bona

2. That is just setting me up to say something mean.

[kgray]

Interesting that Eden glosses over the part where Sabi thinks the maf teams know each other. Anyone else want to think about what that means?

meh I decided to be slightly less lazy and think about it myself, and I don't like it. Very weird how serious he is about this whole conversation and yet he ignores that. Actually this whole conversation kinda feels awkward and forced

HI Grey,

What did you think about his glossing over that and why did you not like it? I missed it myself to be honest.

Honestly I do agree it feels awkward but that's every conversation I have with eden regardless of it being in the game or not.

I mean he's going into so much detail responding to you and he misses the thing that could be a townslip? It's objectively sus. Maybe he just doesn't want to be the one to point it out, maybe he thinks mentioning it will reveal too much info about what he knows about the setup. He's a self-admitted post editor so it could be anything.

And it's not just awkward, it's serious. Not what I'd expect from you too

[BesharamSabi]

Oh everyone starts talking when I go to play video games okay

HI durga,

What game were you playing?

Have you caught up yet and if so what post stood out to you either in a good or bad way and why?

If you didn't catch up then uh disregard this. But it's up to you and I hope you do respond.

[kgray]

1. I fully support the prohibition on +1s.

2. Eden and Sabi are... something. I definitely haven't played with Sabi and I'm pretty sure I haven't played with Eden, but their reputations certainly do precede them.

3. This is going to be a long shitpost phase.

You've read the game up to this point and determined it will be a long shitpost phase? I was surprised at how fast it got serious for some people

[Bonatogether]

2. "Fabricate," "manufacture"... These are really not things town should be doing, open or otherwise.

2. i do it all the time and no one notices
pro life tip: be like bona

2. That is just setting me up to say something mean.

2. bona is too cool to care
he has already fabricated a response

[Bonatogether]

yo how do i come into this

meh I decided to be slightly less lazy and think about it myself, and I don’t like it. Very weird how serious he is about this whole conversation and yet he ignores that. Actually this whole conversation kinda feels awkward and forced

the cagey gary is correct again

oh

yeah no shit that's nai

[kgray]

2. I think game has been going on for 2 hours and 45 minutes, "making" thoughts at this time is pointless.

2. fabricate a think

2. Seems scummy to push that kind of behavior.

Fox are you the one who believes there's no such thing as 'too scummy to be scum'?

[Foxcastle]

1. I fully support the prohibition on +1s.

2. Eden and Sabi are... something. I definitely haven't played with Sabi and I'm pretty sure I haven't played with Eden, but their reputations certainly do precede them.

3. This is going to be a long shitpost phase.

You've read the game up to this point and determined it will be a long shitpost phase? I was surprised at how fast it got serious for some people

Oh, I'm interpreting all of that as part of the shitpost phase.

[Foxcastle]

2. fabricate a think

2. Seems scummy to push that kind of behavior.

Fox are you the one who believes there's no such thing as 'too scummy to be scum'?

No. I firmly believe that town should make a list of who they find scummy, and then ignore all of those people and focus on scum hunting among people who don't look scummy.

[President Eden]

Let’s look at the history of people teaching me in my three games so far:

Snowy did it m70 while scum.
Bunny did it 1019 while scum.
Ghug and Deathllama both did it in 1020 while scum.


Is there a reason why scum target me to buddy by telling me they want to help me be a better player? Why is this a pattern? What is it about me that makes scum buddy me this way?

Firstly, I made a smaller effort to do that in M70, while town. snowy also made a pass at it in M1020 while town.
I didn’t know you as well in M70 and didn’t feel like it was my place to do that then, but now you clearly want to improve, and we have enough rapport for me to attempt it in the middle of a game, despite getting considerable flak for it from ego-invested players who really should know better by now, but don’t.

So it isn’t strictly a “mafia do this” act, and examining the content of each attempt will better help you figure out the answer.

The key difference is that I’m actually attempting to help, making a systemic pass at things like “what does it mean to contribute,” “what responses do you expect town and mafia to have to these questions,” while they made superficial passes at it that steered you toward specific conclusions that fit the mafia’s agenda.

All things which ghug should immediately be able to appreciate, but apparently does not.

[Foxcastle]

2. Seems scummy to push that kind of behavior.

Fox are you the one who believes there's no such thing as 'too scummy to be scum'?

No. I firmly believe that town should make a list of who they find scummy, and then ignore all of those people and focus on scum hunting among people who don't look scummy.

Wait. Are you trying to drag me into <gestures vaguely> all that?

[President Eden]

I mean he’s going into so much detail responding to you and he misses the thing that could be a townslip? It’s objectively sus. Maybe he just doesn’t want to be the one to point it out, maybe he thinks mentioning it will reveal too much info about what he knows about the setup. He’s a self-admitted post editor so it could be anything.

And it’s not just awkward, it’s serious. Not what I’d expect from you too

“Objectively sus”

##VOTE kgray

Calling something “objectively sus” is objectively sus.

How long do you intend to speculate about my reasons when I very plainly put them out there for you?