M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

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bozotheclown
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2621 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:00 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:56 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:32 am
After D1 I did not have any strong scum reads, now I am not sure on anyone being town. For some reason I get the feeling that scum think they can win today, which would mean there are 4 scum. My current theory is that ghug, damo, Jamie, and BesharamSabi are mafia.
If I were to suspend my townread of ghug momentarily, then I would say a scumteam of ghug, Sabi, and damo is plausible. I don't think Jamie fits into that team though
Why not? Jamie voting for snowy all D2 is atypical, and I know scum Jamie would prefer to take out snowy than me.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2622 Post by BesharamSabi » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:01 am

Hi just got to FL and it's a humid hell hole

I'm sad celaph got night killed. Kgray was sad to hear about this.

Will have to reread ghug, Squigs, and celaph tonight.

I also see bozo and Squigs are still forming a wagon on me. Are they being successful at it? Who knows. I did tell them it had to be rock solid.

Will respond to everything by real life morning.

Lots of stuff to actually read.

Have to respond to Bona about the ghug questions.

This is just my to do list so pay no attention.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2623 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:02 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:53 am
I think Squigs pointed this out with the incorrect assumption that I am scum, but this is an illogical progression from BesharamSabi:

"Snowy = my highest of scum reads, keeps making excuses for inactiveness,tried to ATE us with that long winded post, his strategy in day one makes no sense, has tried to buddy me a lot which is giving me m70 vibes."

"Why isn't the snowy wagon going anywhere?"

"Bozo has been making more of an effort than the other two. Has been engaging more."
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:02 pm
Fine fine fine, time to decide between bozo or snowy.

This is so hard.

Ugh I hate this.

Whatever I will do the vote thingy.

##VOTE snowy
My point stood on the fact that Sabi was using this in a TvS situation. If you are town, what motivation does scum Sabi have for this public deliberation?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2624 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:04 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:55 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:47 am
ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:59 am
Ok, let's first assume bozo is scum. I am town, and I'm considering Sabi locktown. That leaves 2-3 scum among:

bona - Yesterday's tiebreak might look like a save, but between bozo trying to make that happen and the way the tiebreak actually went down, I highly doubt it was.

Squigs - Arguably bozo's biggest target all game, at least other than me. I don't think bozo's a big busser, especially D1 (I know bozo and I bussed someone together D1 once, but those were pretty extreme circumstances. bozo, are there any other examples of you bussing early?). Squigs was also key in making the bozo wagon relevant, only to jump off. Strongly doubt they're teammates.

damo - Voted snowy all day yesterday, so little of interest there. Made bozo a lead wagon briefly day one. Bozo tried to make damo a wagon D2 and then used that scumread in part to justify the scumreads on me and Squiggles, only to turn around and conclude that damo wouldn't be scum with us. This doesn't seem like something he'd do with a teammate.

DL - Put bozo in the lead over snowy yesterday. I don't think that makes much sense as a bus. He wasn't on early enough to get a ton of credit, and I think mafia would pretty strongly prefer a dead town snowy over a dead scum bozo. Plausible but unlikely.

Jamie - Jamie made bozo a lead wagon briefly D1 with the help of damo, and scumread him all of day 2. Jamie likes to bus bozo, and heaving someone as your second candidate while voting elsewhere is at least positive. Jamie likes to vote for bozo as town too, though. Plausible.

Darg - Only thing of note here is that darg's absence at EoD possibly affecting the wagons. If he's scum, we may have had as few as one other teammate around and able to protect. If that teammate was already voting for snowy (or bussing, really), it would explain a lack of movement to save bozo. Even with two teammates, we could say much the same thing. Darg mentioned bozo overnight, but mostly when talking about meta, not giving reads (which come to think of it is a fair critique of his play in general. Darg, please stake yourself to some opinions.)


If bozo's scum, my money'd be on a bozo/Jamie/darg team.
This might be the most I've disagreed with you this game. :o

I still think putting Sabi as locktown is a bad idea, especially if you're talking about potential Bozo connections. I'm not voting Sabi today, but leaving them out of a potential scumteam is restrictive imo.

I dont really get why you're excluding damo as a Bozo scum partner. To me, damo is one of the more likely Bozo partners. Really the only person damo couldn't be scum with is probably Sabi. No matter what angle I look at, damo seems to end up in my PoE, but never as a strong scumread.

Jamie looks more townie to me in the last day than at any other point in this game. I do think Jamie is a very capable busser as scum, but in this instance I don't think Jamie is scum based off of other posts.
I disagree with your conclusion that damo couldn't be scum with BesharamSabi, damo voting for BesharamSabi D1 looks like typical damo bussing.
I'd have to reread the interactions between them, but they were pushing each other more than just a throwaway vote. If one of them flips I'll certainly reconsider and reread
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2625 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:09 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:00 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:56 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:32 am
After D1 I did not have any strong scum reads, now I am not sure on anyone being town. For some reason I get the feeling that scum think they can win today, which would mean there are 4 scum. My current theory is that ghug, damo, Jamie, and BesharamSabi are mafia.
If I were to suspend my townread of ghug momentarily, then I would say a scumteam of ghug, Sabi, and damo is plausible. I don't think Jamie fits into that team though
Why not? Jamie voting for snowy all D2 is atypical, and I know scum Jamie would prefer to take out snowy than me.
Mostly I don't think Jamie and ghug could be scummates based on a few interactions between them. But I also townread Jamie, although that townread is mostly based on recent vibes (Snowy certified!)
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2626 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:11 am

BesharamSabi wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:01 am
Hi just got to FL and it's a humid hell hole

I'm sad celaph got night killed. Kgray was sad to hear about this.

Will have to reread ghug, Squigs, and celaph tonight.

I also see bozo and Squigs are still forming a wagon on me. Are they being successful at it? Who knows. I did tell them it had to be rock solid.

Will respond to everything by real life morning.

Lots of stuff to actually read.

Have to respond to Bona about the ghug questions.

This is just my to do list so pay no attention.
Starting a wagon? No. I've specifically said I'm not voting you today
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2627 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:11 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:02 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:53 am
I think Squigs pointed this out with the incorrect assumption that I am scum, but this is an illogical progression from BesharamSabi:

"Snowy = my highest of scum reads, keeps making excuses for inactiveness,tried to ATE us with that long winded post, his strategy in day one makes no sense, has tried to buddy me a lot which is giving me m70 vibes."

"Why isn't the snowy wagon going anywhere?"

"Bozo has been making more of an effort than the other two. Has been engaging more."
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:02 pm
Fine fine fine, time to decide between bozo or snowy.

This is so hard.

Ugh I hate this.

Whatever I will do the vote thingy.

##VOTE snowy
My point stood on the fact that Sabi was using this in a TvS situation. If you are town, what motivation does scum Sabi have for this public deliberation?
If BesharamSabi is scum, they knew snowy would flip town, so they might have been hedging to avoid blame for DKing a town. I think it is very likely the mafia had planned to try to get snowy DKed.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2628 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:13 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:09 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:00 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:56 am


If I were to suspend my townread of ghug momentarily, then I would say a scumteam of ghug, Sabi, and damo is plausible. I don't think Jamie fits into that team though
Why not? Jamie voting for snowy all D2 is atypical, and I know scum Jamie would prefer to take out snowy than me.
Mostly I don't think Jamie and ghug could be scummates based on a few interactions between them. But I also townread Jamie, although that townread is mostly based on recent vibes (Snowy certified!)
I don't know specifically what you are referring to, but I have seen scum theater between them in the past.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2629 Post by ghug » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:17 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:47 am
ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:59 am
Ok, let's first assume bozo is scum. I am town, and I'm considering Sabi locktown. That leaves 2-3 scum among:

bona - Yesterday's tiebreak might look like a save, but between bozo trying to make that happen and the way the tiebreak actually went down, I highly doubt it was.

Squigs - Arguably bozo's biggest target all game, at least other than me. I don't think bozo's a big busser, especially D1 (I know bozo and I bussed someone together D1 once, but those were pretty extreme circumstances. bozo, are there any other examples of you bussing early?). Squigs was also key in making the bozo wagon relevant, only to jump off. Strongly doubt they're teammates.

damo - Voted snowy all day yesterday, so little of interest there. Made bozo a lead wagon briefly day one. Bozo tried to make damo a wagon D2 and then used that scumread in part to justify the scumreads on me and Squiggles, only to turn around and conclude that damo wouldn't be scum with us. This doesn't seem like something he'd do with a teammate.

DL - Put bozo in the lead over snowy yesterday. I don't think that makes much sense as a bus. He wasn't on early enough to get a ton of credit, and I think mafia would pretty strongly prefer a dead town snowy over a dead scum bozo. Plausible but unlikely.

Jamie - Jamie made bozo a lead wagon briefly D1 with the help of damo, and scumread him all of day 2. Jamie likes to bus bozo, and heaving someone as your second candidate while voting elsewhere is at least positive. Jamie likes to vote for bozo as town too, though. Plausible.

Darg - Only thing of note here is that darg's absence at EoD possibly affecting the wagons. If he's scum, we may have had as few as one other teammate around and able to protect. If that teammate was already voting for snowy (or bussing, really), it would explain a lack of movement to save bozo. Even with two teammates, we could say much the same thing. Darg mentioned bozo overnight, but mostly when talking about meta, not giving reads (which come to think of it is a fair critique of his play in general. Darg, please stake yourself to some opinions.)


If bozo's scum, my money'd be on a bozo/Jamie/darg team.
This might be the most I've disagreed with you this game. :o

I still think putting Sabi as locktown is a bad idea, especially if you're talking about potential Bozo connections. I'm not voting Sabi today, but leaving them out of a potential scumteam is restrictive imo.

I dont really get why you're excluding damo as a Bozo scum partner. To me, damo is one of the more likely Bozo partners. Really the only person damo couldn't be scum with is probably Sabi. No matter what angle I look at, damo seems to end up in my PoE, but never as a strong scumread.

Jamie looks more townie to me in the last day than at any other point in this game. I do think Jamie is a very capable busser as scum, but in this instance I don't think Jamie is scum based off of other posts.
Re Sabi: you haven't played with them yet. I have a very hard time believing that this game would be inside their scum range, and if they're teammates with bozo specifically, there's no fucking way there aren't two others. We should not be wasting our time on Sabi today.

Damo's D2 came off very townie to me (he's not good at faking the thing where he spams barely comprehensible thoughts on a bunch of pairs, and there were a few moments like the one where he said he had an idea and then determined it was a non-starter that I liked), and I think the bozo connection is especially unlikely. I'm not eliminating him totally in a bozo-as-town world, but I definitely don't think he's bozo's teammate.

What's making you lean towards town on Jamie?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2630 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:17 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:09 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:00 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:56 am


If I were to suspend my townread of ghug momentarily, then I would say a scumteam of ghug, Sabi, and damo is plausible. I don't think Jamie fits into that team though
Why not? Jamie voting for snowy all D2 is atypical, and I know scum Jamie would prefer to take out snowy than me.
Mostly I don't think Jamie and ghug could be scummates based on a few interactions between them. But I also townread Jamie, although that townread is mostly based on recent vibes (Snowy certified!)
I don't remember Jamie doing anything significant this game except scum read me and snowy, so if he is town he is having a poor game.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2631 Post by Bonatogether » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:23 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:00 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:45 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:38 am


Although I scumread Bozo I don't think any of these points are particularly strong, you're just nitpicking
do you not think meta is a consideration here?
I wasn't in M70, so I'm not going to be able to assess that meta without rereading a whole mafia game which I'd rather not do
long story short: i caught bozo on exactly that meta, he claimed doc, the counterwagon cced, i was attacked but saved, bozo said he saved a different person, so we dked him. this is why i brought up his posts from last game, as the situation is not entirely dissimilar, imo

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2632 Post by Bonatogether » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:24 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:57 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:32 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:29 am


No, because I am town.
that's not what i asked

are you capable of acting in a manner that can be interpreted in a good-faith way as scum, despite being town?
Apparently so.
so we agree people who scumread you are not inherently scum

are all people who are scum inherently scumreading you?

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2633 Post by DeathLlama8 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:28 am

upon reread, not seeing a lot to townread worcej on this game (I don't know his meta). Voting explicitly for one townread (bo) to defend another townread (bona) at EOD1 is weird, and he doesn't push snowy especially hard given that the other two counterwagons are his townreads - this looks a little nonchalant for town. Specifically taking a lot of time to respond to sabi's "who would you save" question and then later calling the questions out as useless is inconsistent as well.

darg kinda just has been floating around posting things that are vaguely related to scumhunting so I feel okay voting for this slot until we get more engagement ##vote dargoyle

I tried to reread ghug's d1 but there's just so many words lmao
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2634 Post by ghug » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:28 am

##VOTE darg
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2635 Post by ghug » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:29 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:28 am
upon reread, not seeing a lot to townread worcej on this game (I don't know his meta). Voting explicitly for one townread (bo) to defend another townread (bona) at EOD1 is weird, and he doesn't push snowy especially hard given that the other two counterwagons are his townreads - this looks a little nonchalant for town. Specifically taking a lot of time to respond to sabi's "who would you save" question and then later calling the questions out as useless is inconsistent as well.

darg kinda just has been floating around posting things that are vaguely related to scumhunting so I feel okay voting for this slot until we get more engagement ##vote dargoyle

I tried to reread ghug's d1 but there's just so many words lmao
Great minds
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2636 Post by DeathLlama8 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:35 am

ghug - can you walk me through how your read on snowy shifted yesterday? You start the day vaguely wanting to townread him, then go ->null->voting him - were there specific inflection points you can point out?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2637 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:37 am

ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:17 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:47 am
ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:59 am
Ok, let's first assume bozo is scum. I am town, and I'm considering Sabi locktown. That leaves 2-3 scum among:

bona - Yesterday's tiebreak might look like a save, but between bozo trying to make that happen and the way the tiebreak actually went down, I highly doubt it was.

Squigs - Arguably bozo's biggest target all game, at least other than me. I don't think bozo's a big busser, especially D1 (I know bozo and I bussed someone together D1 once, but those were pretty extreme circumstances. bozo, are there any other examples of you bussing early?). Squigs was also key in making the bozo wagon relevant, only to jump off. Strongly doubt they're teammates.

damo - Voted snowy all day yesterday, so little of interest there. Made bozo a lead wagon briefly day one. Bozo tried to make damo a wagon D2 and then used that scumread in part to justify the scumreads on me and Squiggles, only to turn around and conclude that damo wouldn't be scum with us. This doesn't seem like something he'd do with a teammate.

DL - Put bozo in the lead over snowy yesterday. I don't think that makes much sense as a bus. He wasn't on early enough to get a ton of credit, and I think mafia would pretty strongly prefer a dead town snowy over a dead scum bozo. Plausible but unlikely.

Jamie - Jamie made bozo a lead wagon briefly D1 with the help of damo, and scumread him all of day 2. Jamie likes to bus bozo, and heaving someone as your second candidate while voting elsewhere is at least positive. Jamie likes to vote for bozo as town too, though. Plausible.

Darg - Only thing of note here is that darg's absence at EoD possibly affecting the wagons. If he's scum, we may have had as few as one other teammate around and able to protect. If that teammate was already voting for snowy (or bussing, really), it would explain a lack of movement to save bozo. Even with two teammates, we could say much the same thing. Darg mentioned bozo overnight, but mostly when talking about meta, not giving reads (which come to think of it is a fair critique of his play in general. Darg, please stake yourself to some opinions.)


If bozo's scum, my money'd be on a bozo/Jamie/darg team.
This might be the most I've disagreed with you this game. :o

I still think putting Sabi as locktown is a bad idea, especially if you're talking about potential Bozo connections. I'm not voting Sabi today, but leaving them out of a potential scumteam is restrictive imo.

I dont really get why you're excluding damo as a Bozo scum partner. To me, damo is one of the more likely Bozo partners. Really the only person damo couldn't be scum with is probably Sabi. No matter what angle I look at, damo seems to end up in my PoE, but never as a strong scumread.

Jamie looks more townie to me in the last day than at any other point in this game. I do think Jamie is a very capable busser as scum, but in this instance I don't think Jamie is scum based off of other posts.
Re Sabi: you haven't played with them yet. I have a very hard time believing that this game would be inside their scum range, and if they're teammates with bozo specifically, there's no fucking way there aren't two others. We should not be wasting our time on Sabi today.

Damo's D2 came off very townie to me (he's not good at faking the thing where he spams barely comprehensible thoughts on a bunch of pairs, and there were a few moments like the one where he said he had an idea and then determined it was a non-starter that I liked), and I think the bozo connection is especially unlikely. I'm not eliminating him totally in a bozo-as-town world, but I definitely don't think he's bozo's teammate.

What's making you lean towards town on Jamie?
According to Sabi:
BesharamSabi wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:00 am
This is my third ever forum mafia game that isn't the board/card game version and I have been town so far, no idea tbh.
So I'm not sure how you've built up a meta to know this isn't scum Sabi. But I agree that Sabi should not be the focus today.

I think it would be easy for scum damo to replicate his scumpairings analysis thing and non-starters, so I'm gonna have to disagree with you there.

My townread on Jamie comes mostly from vibes in his more recent posts.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2638 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:40 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:24 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:57 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:32 am


that's not what i asked

are you capable of acting in a manner that can be interpreted in a good-faith way as scum, despite being town?
Apparently so.
so we agree people who scumread you are not inherently scum

are all people who are scum inherently scumreading you?
Bona I have no clue what you're planning to accomplish with this line of questioning, but I'd prefer you not get back into your day 1 mindset of trying to trip people up by using leading questions and then misinterpreting what they say. Your day 2 was much better
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2639 Post by DeathLlama8 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:44 am

This is Celaph's last opinions post fwiw - not sure how much we can read into it. He says later that he won't vote for anyone not mentioned and "very likely won't vote for damo/darg."
celaph wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:31 pm
My opinion of Bozo is trending downwards at the moment. My looks at isos suggest that there is more arguments around Damo at the moment, but at least thus far it looks like he just put his vote there as it was a default place he called out earlier without taking into consideration any of the interactions he had made earlier. If damo is scum, I might be looking here for bussing, but I'd honestly rather flip this slot before Damo. His pushes on Squigs/ghug also very bizarre as far as I can see. vote Bozo

Bona seems to be quite passive and just pleased to let the game go where it is going. Not sure where he is getting the idea to vote DL from, though I don't like it.

As my failure highlighted earlier, ghug is hard to build a case on at the moment. He's had some sharp moments as town, but I also think a lot of rather unsolvy play that doesn't give me great feelings, but also not bad enough to make him my top choice to flip atm.

Regarding Damo, nothing feels that scummy here, but nothing feels overly towny. If I had to connect him to anyone it would be bozo and I outlined my thoughts on that above.

Dargorygel has done about as much as I have today.

Snowy I feel the worst about commenting on without having caught up. My primary concern with him is that even at the start of the day he feels way more concerned with protecting himself than actually catching scum. For example, early on this day I had posted my meta read against ghug and he just didn't interact with it. To me that isn't the sign of someone trying to catch scum ghug. My one hesitancy towards him is that I get the feeling that at times he has been genuinely upset this game. I am just not sure if he is upset because he knows that town is losing by killing him or upset because his scum play is failing.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2640 Post by DeathLlama8 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:50 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:35 am
ghug - can you walk me through how your read on snowy shifted yesterday? You start the day vaguely wanting to townread him, then go ->null->voting him - were there specific inflection points you can point out?
also do you think you were playing differently last game compared to this game because you were a PR?
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