M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

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Bonatogether
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2601 Post by Bonatogether » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:43 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:35 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:27 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:24 am


If you are town, you would be better positioned to answer this yourself.
no, i want to hear what you think
Sometimes it is easier for mafia to tell people what they want to hear than for town to tell people what really think.
what caused town to want to scumread you, in your view?

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2602 Post by ghug » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:44 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:41 am
DeathLlama8 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:33 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:32 am
After D1 I did not have any strong scum reads, now I am not sure on anyone being town. For some reason I get the feeling that scum think they can win today, which would mean there are 4 scum. My current theory is that ghug, damo, Jamie, and BesharamSabi are mafia.
oh do you townread squigs now?
My current theory is that Squigs was just successfully pocketed by ghug, and I could see a team of ghug/damo/Jamie/BesharamSabi wanting to NK foodcoats N1 and come out D2 trying to get snowy DKed, knowing they could NK him N2 if they were not successful.
You think three of the four members of the scumteam were voting snowy all day?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2603 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:43 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:35 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:27 am

no, i want to hear what you think
Sometimes it is easier for mafia to tell people what they want to hear than for town to tell people what really think.
what caused town to want to scumread you, in your view?
There is only one player I know for sure to be town that scum read me, and this was his reason:
celaph wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:31 pm
Squigs44 wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 8:26 am
@Celaph I would love to hear your take on recent developments given your stances you shared early D2 and now that you've been absent for a while. You've written a whole lot of words but I'd like to see you integrate/participate more D2, especially around EoD if possible
Both pleased that someone asked me a question and saddened that in my absence I went unaddressed for so long.

My opinion of Bozo is trending downwards at the moment. My looks at isos suggest that there is more arguments around Damo at the moment, but at least thus far it looks like he just put his vote there as it was a default place he called out earlier without taking into consideration any of the interactions he had made earlier. If damo is scum, I might be looking here for bussing, but I'd honestly rather flip this slot before Damo. His pushes on Squigs/ghug also very bizarre as far as I can see. ##vote Bozo

Bona seems to be quite passive and just pleased to let the game go where it is going. Not sure where he is getting the idea to vote DL from, though I don't like it.

As my failure highlighted earlier, ghug is hard to build a case on at the moment. He's had some sharp moments as town, but I also think a lot of rather unsolvy play that doesn't give me great feelings, but also not bad enough to make him my top choice to flip atm.

Regarding Damo, nothing feels that scummy here, but nothing feels overly towny. If I had to connect him to anyone it would be bozo and I outlined my thoughts on that above.

Dargorygel has done about as much as I have today.

Snowy I feel the worst about commenting on without having caught up. My primary concern with him is that even at the start of the day he feels way more concerned with protecting himself than actually catching scum. For example, early on this day I had posted my meta read against ghug and he just didn't interact with it. To me that isn't the sign of someone trying to catch scum ghug. My one hesitancy towards him is that I get the feeling that at times he has been genuinely upset this game. I am just not sure if he is upset because he knows that town is losing by killing him or upset because his scum play is failing.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2604 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:49 am

ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:44 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:41 am
DeathLlama8 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:33 am


oh do you townread squigs now?
My current theory is that Squigs was just successfully pocketed by ghug, and I could see a team of ghug/damo/Jamie/BesharamSabi wanting to NK foodcoats N1 and come out D2 trying to get snowy DKed, knowing they could NK him N2 if they were not successful.
You think three of the four members of the scumteam were voting snowy all day?
BesharamSabi did not vote until the last hour of D2, and Jamie and damo being so static with their votes seems scum indicative.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2605 Post by ghug » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:55 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:49 am
ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:44 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:41 am


My current theory is that Squigs was just successfully pocketed by ghug, and I could see a team of ghug/damo/Jamie/BesharamSabi wanting to NK foodcoats N1 and come out D2 trying to get snowy DKed, knowing they could NK him N2 if they were not successful.
You think three of the four members of the scumteam were voting snowy all day?
BesharamSabi did not vote until the last hour of D2, and Jamie and damo being so static with their votes seems scum indicative.
Oh, you're right. Still, Sabi voted there, and I was clearly fine with snowy dying. Why do we do that if none of us is at great risk?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2606 Post by Bonatogether » Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:56 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:43 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:35 am


Sometimes it is easier for mafia to tell people what they want to hear than for town to tell people what really think.
what caused town to want to scumread you, in your view?
There is only one player I know for sure to be town that scum read me, and this was his reason:
celaph wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:31 pm
is there any legitimate basis to the scumreads on you?

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2607 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:29 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:56 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:43 am


what caused town to want to scumread you, in your view?
There is only one player I know for sure to be town that scum read me, and this was his reason:
celaph wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 9:31 pm
is there any legitimate basis to the scumreads on you?
No, because I am town.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2608 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:30 am

ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:55 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:49 am
ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:44 am


You think three of the four members of the scumteam were voting snowy all day?
BesharamSabi did not vote until the last hour of D2, and Jamie and damo being so static with their votes seems scum indicative.
Oh, you're right. Still, Sabi voted there, and I was clearly fine with snowy dying. Why do we do that if none of us is at great risk?
Why not?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2609 Post by Bonatogether » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:32 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:29 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:56 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:46 am


There is only one player I know for sure to be town that scum read me, and this was his reason:

is there any legitimate basis to the scumreads on you?
No, because I am town.
that's not what i asked

are you capable of acting in a manner that can be interpreted in a good-faith way as scum, despite being town?

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2610 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:36 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:32 am
ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:30 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:25 am


There is no basis for making this assumption, and it seems scum motivated to try to make it sound like celaph would be a player I would want NKed if I were scum.
Which assumption? That he seemed to be coming around towards townreading you?
"wasn't doubting his read on Bozo"
I was pointing out that none of Celaphs posts actually explicitly said he was doubting his read on you as ghug claimed. That was my point about the guesswork, we didn't actually know what Celaphs thoughts were on you after the flip cause he never gave them - although I agreed that Celaphs likely conclusion was a softened scumread of you given his most recent posts
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2611 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:38 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:35 am
bona's wallpost on bozo: a compilation of things

1) the phrases i pointed out right before, even if he does that as town, is suspicious

2) jumping onto me at eod2 was a terrible look for bozo, because one, he never scumread me that entire day (in some spots he kinda sorta implied a townread but he didn't actually say it), and two, there was a chance that wagon would take off and kill me. He dug himself into a hole around his townread of snowy, so he couldn't vote snowy without just dying today. scum bozo, if he wants to live, has to vote for me. yall don't know my alignment so this isn't as much of a point for you (until i die, at least), but for anyone who townreads me, this should be a point of consideration at least

3) the meta thing we got him for in m70 (not pushing anyone hard or building cases or whatnot)

4) food the goat scumread him
Although I scumread Bozo I don't think any of these points are particularly strong, you're just nitpicking
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2612 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:39 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:37 am
ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:34 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:32 am


"wasn't doubting his read on Bozo"
Who is making that assumption? I said he was doubting the read. Squigs noted that he didn't solidify that opinion overnight but was likely leaning that way.
This was the statement Squigs was defending:
Squigs44 wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:17 pm
According to Bozo, we should be analyzing NKs based off of who they were scumreading. Celaph scumread and was voting Bozo day 2 (until last second to tie break). Foodcoats also scumread Bozo (along with myself).
Maybe I misunderstood his conclusion.
Those were two different conversations. That second one was more of a fun poke at you scumreading me day 2 based off the foodcoats flip
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2613 Post by Bonatogether » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:45 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:38 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:35 am
bona's wallpost on bozo: a compilation of things

1) the phrases i pointed out right before, even if he does that as town, is suspicious

2) jumping onto me at eod2 was a terrible look for bozo, because one, he never scumread me that entire day (in some spots he kinda sorta implied a townread but he didn't actually say it), and two, there was a chance that wagon would take off and kill me. He dug himself into a hole around his townread of snowy, so he couldn't vote snowy without just dying today. scum bozo, if he wants to live, has to vote for me. yall don't know my alignment so this isn't as much of a point for you (until i die, at least), but for anyone who townreads me, this should be a point of consideration at least

3) the meta thing we got him for in m70 (not pushing anyone hard or building cases or whatnot)

4) food the goat scumread him
Although I scumread Bozo I don't think any of these points are particularly strong, you're just nitpicking
do you not think meta is a consideration here?

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2614 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:47 am

ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:59 am
Ok, let's first assume bozo is scum. I am town, and I'm considering Sabi locktown. That leaves 2-3 scum among:

bona - Yesterday's tiebreak might look like a save, but between bozo trying to make that happen and the way the tiebreak actually went down, I highly doubt it was.

Squigs - Arguably bozo's biggest target all game, at least other than me. I don't think bozo's a big busser, especially D1 (I know bozo and I bussed someone together D1 once, but those were pretty extreme circumstances. bozo, are there any other examples of you bussing early?). Squigs was also key in making the bozo wagon relevant, only to jump off. Strongly doubt they're teammates.

damo - Voted snowy all day yesterday, so little of interest there. Made bozo a lead wagon briefly day one. Bozo tried to make damo a wagon D2 and then used that scumread in part to justify the scumreads on me and Squiggles, only to turn around and conclude that damo wouldn't be scum with us. This doesn't seem like something he'd do with a teammate.

DL - Put bozo in the lead over snowy yesterday. I don't think that makes much sense as a bus. He wasn't on early enough to get a ton of credit, and I think mafia would pretty strongly prefer a dead town snowy over a dead scum bozo. Plausible but unlikely.

Jamie - Jamie made bozo a lead wagon briefly D1 with the help of damo, and scumread him all of day 2. Jamie likes to bus bozo, and heaving someone as your second candidate while voting elsewhere is at least positive. Jamie likes to vote for bozo as town too, though. Plausible.

Darg - Only thing of note here is that darg's absence at EoD possibly affecting the wagons. If he's scum, we may have had as few as one other teammate around and able to protect. If that teammate was already voting for snowy (or bussing, really), it would explain a lack of movement to save bozo. Even with two teammates, we could say much the same thing. Darg mentioned bozo overnight, but mostly when talking about meta, not giving reads (which come to think of it is a fair critique of his play in general. Darg, please stake yourself to some opinions.)


If bozo's scum, my money'd be on a bozo/Jamie/darg team.
This might be the most I've disagreed with you this game. :o

I still think putting Sabi as locktown is a bad idea, especially if you're talking about potential Bozo connections. I'm not voting Sabi today, but leaving them out of a potential scumteam is restrictive imo.

I dont really get why you're excluding damo as a Bozo scum partner. To me, damo is one of the more likely Bozo partners. Really the only person damo couldn't be scum with is probably Sabi. No matter what angle I look at, damo seems to end up in my PoE, but never as a strong scumread.

Jamie looks more townie to me in the last day than at any other point in this game. I do think Jamie is a very capable busser as scum, but in this instance I don't think Jamie is scum based off of other posts.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2615 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:48 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:07 am
can someone explain why they townread darg
No, because I don't anymore
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2616 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:53 am

I think Squigs pointed this out with the incorrect assumption that I am scum, but this is an illogical progression from BesharamSabi:

"Snowy = my highest of scum reads, keeps making excuses for inactiveness,tried to ATE us with that long winded post, his strategy in day one makes no sense, has tried to buddy me a lot which is giving me m70 vibes."

"Why isn't the snowy wagon going anywhere?"

"Bozo has been making more of an effort than the other two. Has been engaging more."
BesharamSabi wrote:
Sun Nov 21, 2021 10:02 pm
Fine fine fine, time to decide between bozo or snowy.

This is so hard.

Ugh I hate this.

Whatever I will do the vote thingy.

##VOTE snowy
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2617 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:55 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:47 am
ghug wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:59 am
Ok, let's first assume bozo is scum. I am town, and I'm considering Sabi locktown. That leaves 2-3 scum among:

bona - Yesterday's tiebreak might look like a save, but between bozo trying to make that happen and the way the tiebreak actually went down, I highly doubt it was.

Squigs - Arguably bozo's biggest target all game, at least other than me. I don't think bozo's a big busser, especially D1 (I know bozo and I bussed someone together D1 once, but those were pretty extreme circumstances. bozo, are there any other examples of you bussing early?). Squigs was also key in making the bozo wagon relevant, only to jump off. Strongly doubt they're teammates.

damo - Voted snowy all day yesterday, so little of interest there. Made bozo a lead wagon briefly day one. Bozo tried to make damo a wagon D2 and then used that scumread in part to justify the scumreads on me and Squiggles, only to turn around and conclude that damo wouldn't be scum with us. This doesn't seem like something he'd do with a teammate.

DL - Put bozo in the lead over snowy yesterday. I don't think that makes much sense as a bus. He wasn't on early enough to get a ton of credit, and I think mafia would pretty strongly prefer a dead town snowy over a dead scum bozo. Plausible but unlikely.

Jamie - Jamie made bozo a lead wagon briefly D1 with the help of damo, and scumread him all of day 2. Jamie likes to bus bozo, and heaving someone as your second candidate while voting elsewhere is at least positive. Jamie likes to vote for bozo as town too, though. Plausible.

Darg - Only thing of note here is that darg's absence at EoD possibly affecting the wagons. If he's scum, we may have had as few as one other teammate around and able to protect. If that teammate was already voting for snowy (or bussing, really), it would explain a lack of movement to save bozo. Even with two teammates, we could say much the same thing. Darg mentioned bozo overnight, but mostly when talking about meta, not giving reads (which come to think of it is a fair critique of his play in general. Darg, please stake yourself to some opinions.)


If bozo's scum, my money'd be on a bozo/Jamie/darg team.
This might be the most I've disagreed with you this game. :o

I still think putting Sabi as locktown is a bad idea, especially if you're talking about potential Bozo connections. I'm not voting Sabi today, but leaving them out of a potential scumteam is restrictive imo.

I dont really get why you're excluding damo as a Bozo scum partner. To me, damo is one of the more likely Bozo partners. Really the only person damo couldn't be scum with is probably Sabi. No matter what angle I look at, damo seems to end up in my PoE, but never as a strong scumread.

Jamie looks more townie to me in the last day than at any other point in this game. I do think Jamie is a very capable busser as scum, but in this instance I don't think Jamie is scum based off of other posts.
I disagree with your conclusion that damo couldn't be scum with BesharamSabi, damo voting for BesharamSabi D1 looks like typical damo bussing.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2618 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:56 am

bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:32 am
After D1 I did not have any strong scum reads, now I am not sure on anyone being town. For some reason I get the feeling that scum think they can win today, which would mean there are 4 scum. My current theory is that ghug, damo, Jamie, and BesharamSabi are mafia.
If I were to suspend my townread of ghug momentarily, then I would say a scumteam of ghug, Sabi, and damo is plausible. I don't think Jamie fits into that team though
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2619 Post by bozotheclown » Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:57 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:32 am
bozotheclown wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:29 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 2:56 am


is there any legitimate basis to the scumreads on you?
No, because I am town.
that's not what i asked

are you capable of acting in a manner that can be interpreted in a good-faith way as scum, despite being town?
Apparently so.
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#2620 Post by Squigs44 » Tue Nov 23, 2021 4:00 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:45 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:38 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:35 am
bona's wallpost on bozo: a compilation of things

1) the phrases i pointed out right before, even if he does that as town, is suspicious

2) jumping onto me at eod2 was a terrible look for bozo, because one, he never scumread me that entire day (in some spots he kinda sorta implied a townread but he didn't actually say it), and two, there was a chance that wagon would take off and kill me. He dug himself into a hole around his townread of snowy, so he couldn't vote snowy without just dying today. scum bozo, if he wants to live, has to vote for me. yall don't know my alignment so this isn't as much of a point for you (until i die, at least), but for anyone who townreads me, this should be a point of consideration at least

3) the meta thing we got him for in m70 (not pushing anyone hard or building cases or whatnot)

4) food the goat scumread him
Although I scumread Bozo I don't think any of these points are particularly strong, you're just nitpicking
do you not think meta is a consideration here?
I wasn't in M70, so I'm not going to be able to assess that meta without rereading a whole mafia game which I'd rather not do
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