M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

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Bonatogether
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1681 Post by Bonatogether » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:00 am

ghug wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:58 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:55 am
ghug wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:40 pm


Why is kgray your example?
everyone in this game is ruthlessly incompetent
You sure you didn't just forget she wasn't playing?
no i have alzheimers

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1682 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:04 am

Some obvious ones:

q: what the fuck were you doing yesterday snowy
a: obviously I wanted to not die for once. No doubt a million and a half voices will rise up about this but I'm really not worried I just don't get mislynched for whatever reason

q: why do you scumread ghug?
a: again, hard to put into words. I feel that he is scum, and therefore he is likely to be (you call that arrogance I call that a posteriori statistcs)

q: why did you push bo_sox yesterday?
a: eh, I wasn't really feeling it but I did sort of not really scum read him and wanted to see how it would end up. The wagon around bona was tremendously interesting and I wanted to see how it would lie down.

q: oh here's an interesting one I recall - why were you cheering on for the way EoD wagons shaped up when you weren't feeling bo_sox by your own admission? (kudos to this guy I'll look up who you were)
a: because 1) it was me and two people I pushed [those who haven't played with me will have no idea how often every d1/d2 wagons shape this way] and it was unclear to me which way it would lean at the end of the day right up to the very last minute, which is the best kind of day 1. Also it was very interesting to me how despite the great deal of overt scum reads I received throughout day 1 the end wagons shaped how I asked it to (well, except ghug but you can't win em all). Haven't really looked into it too hard but I rather think there's something to be found here

On a related note, sometimes the scum team is just well hidden guys. I'm obviously not *always* right, but given that I usually am (though I personally note the danger of circular reasoning my scum reads based on my own internal belief in my scum reads being accurate) and that none of the scum candidates being bandied about seem accurate to me really does make me think my ghug/DL team is likely on point, and if nothing else I invite you to re-read and reconsider your stances on these lovely individuals

I will likely have to drag up some concrete reasons for this to satisfy your petty need for "reasons" and "justifications", such as they are, but I'll tackle that at a later timing

That all said though I'm all caught up I kinda just eyeballed and skimmed n1 vaguely so I should probably re-read everything there sometime... tomorrow, let's say

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1683 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:05 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:55 am
Snowy I'm still not sure what your goal was day 1. Could you elaborate?
Oh since this game has its fair share of new players (with me at least), some context

I have an average lifespan as town of like 1.2 days. Ask anyone. It sucks

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1684 Post by Squigs44 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:06 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:05 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:55 am
Snowy I'm still not sure what your goal was day 1. Could you elaborate?
Oh since this game has its fair share of new players (with me at least), some context

I have an average lifespan as town of like 1.2 days. Ask anyone. It sucks
Night kill or voted out early?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1685 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:08 am

bona I need to ask that you plugwalk all over a scum fellow. Anyone you want, go for it

Also hi darg, how you been?

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1686 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:09 am

Squigs44 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:06 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:05 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 12:55 am
Snowy I'm still not sure what your goal was day 1. Could you elaborate?
Oh since this game has its fair share of new players (with me at least), some context

I have an average lifespan as town of like 1.2 days. Ask anyone. It sucks
Night kill or voted out early?
NK. I don't get miskilled

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1687 Post by Bonatogether » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:11 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:08 am
bona I need to ask that you plugwalk all over a scum fellow. Anyone you want, go for it

Also hi darg, how you been?
what is plugwalking?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1688 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:13 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:09 am
Squigs44 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:06 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:05 am


Oh since this game has its fair share of new players (with me at least), some context

I have an average lifespan as town of like 1.2 days. Ask anyone. It sucks
Night kill or voted out early?
NK. I don't get miskilled
To further elaborate, it is this knowledge that allowed me to, so to say, play with fire yesterday. I can't say I recall ever really pushing the envelope as much as I did yesterday but it is overall a strategy I rely on frequently because it's easiest to observe an attack on your own person (something something certain knowledge).

While the overall strategy that relies on giving the scum team hope that this time, unlike every other time before now, will be the time that snowy can be miskilled or at least used as a distraction play instead of creaming on them does tend to sort of backfire by attracting a town audience alongside (as I believe Jamiet and worcej were), well, like I said you can't win em all

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1689 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:14 am

Bonatogether wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:11 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:08 am
bona I need to ask that you plugwalk all over a scum fellow. Anyone you want, go for it

Also hi darg, how you been?
what is plugwalking?
See: you on bozo D2 M70

Pick anyone and go for it. Pick me, if that's your preference too

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1690 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:17 am

Also while I will make the effort to revisit ignored questions as a sort of apology for my somewhat selfish actions of yesterday, I will emphasize that if there's any important questions you absolutely want an answer you you are very likely better served by repeating it

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1691 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:20 am

As a final note, I observe that the aura of positivity that we've been carrying throughout the past few games was somewhat diminished in the 2nd half of day 1 and onwards, with a lot of players seemingly losing enthusiasm and passion for the ongoings. Perhaps part of that was my fault, but whatever the case I invite you all to reflect upon this matter and attempt to reignite the flames so to speak moving forward

Sorry to hit and run but I'm out (insofar as I ever tend to be out) so catch y'all later
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1692 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:20 am

[after all, there's little point in this game if people aren't having fun y'know]

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1693 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:23 am

Oh right last thing my "phew" on bo's death was my being perhaps too theatric over my desire to not be NK'd d1, as a successful d1 kill led my yours truly would've most likely resulted in.

Upon reflection I did actually look at in and say "maybe that looks like a tad bit too much like scum pretending to be town relieved at the pretense of their acting scummy working out instead of just town doing the selfsame" but such as it is.

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1694 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:23 am

(but seriously guys look at ghug I'd say 90% scum)

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1695 Post by BesharamSabi » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:26 am

Going through foodcoats posts so bare with me.
foodcoats wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:35 pm
I suppose I should clarify, so that it doesn’t go any further, that the main takeaway from Bona’s Squigs-ghug thing was actually that it was town indicative of bona, not scum indicative of Squigs or ghug.

I realized I’ve mused on this in an unclear way so I want to make sure that gets across. I think I even pointed out when I first started talking about it that it had nothing to do with whether bona was right, just that it was an approach and a “gotcha” that seemed in line with how I’ve understood bona to play.

And, I only have spent so much time thinking “what would Bona do” because in the first game I played with him, I misunderstood him greatly and butted heads with him, and after the game it was revealed he had uncovered half the scum team from a very small interaction, so I look to Bona for those kind of tidbits.

TLDR Bona probably town.
On page 78.

What if bozo and others are taking this as mafia killed foodcoats for scumreading one of their own and instead for town reading Bona? He also says here that he doesn't think Squigs is scum.

Maybe I'm grasping at straws.
foodcoats wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:18 pm
POE:

<snip snip>

I guess that makes my scumteam bozo, Squigs, and some combination of celaph/ghug/snowy/Jamie/DeathLlama - with my "level of suspicion" going from highest to lowest in that order.
This was on page 77.

I wonder about this order for his scum reads.

Anyone else want to join me in analyzing this?
foodcoats wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:04 pm
I probably won't have time to iso everyone before EON, so I will iso bo. Obviously he's not clairvoyant, but I had a good discussion with, I believe, Vecna and snowy a few games ago about why it is valuable to listen to dead town, namely that their views are shared in earnest, and are "true" from their own POV.

The things that jump out at me in bo's iso are his conviction that sabi is town and his suspicion of a Squigs-celaph scumteam.

Bo says "Sabi good" twice before making comments suggesting he is even more convinced they are town:

<snip>


Comparing this to my own feelings about Sabi and the general tenor of the conversation regarding them, I feel pretty confident eliminating Sabi from the potential scum pool for D2.

Bo has a complicated thought process on Squigs and was obviously interested in him. Perhaps there is a cognitive bias for staring at Squigs too long, as they are both site developers here. Nonetheless, Bo ends up spending considerable effort in an analysis of Squigs' behaviour with respect to celaph:
bo_sox48 wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 5:17 pm
BesharamSabi wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 3:44 am
Why do you keep thinking Squigs is bussing celaph?
Squigs' main target today has been Bona. Yet he backed off Bona on page 26:
Squigs44 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:37 am
Ask me why I think you are scum and try to convince me that that reasoning is wrong.

Instead you tried convincing the other 11 or however many people in the game that I'm full of crap and my opinions can't be trusted. Town try to work together and correct incorrect lines of reasoning. Or at least they should.

I think my initial goal of voting you for pressure has accomplished its goal in getting conversations going and jumpstarting us out of the day 1 random question phase so I'll stand by that vote.

As for my thoughts on Bona now, I certainly haven't seen anything that convinces me Bona is town, but with input from Ghug and Sabi I might have to accept that my feelings towards Bona are mostly NAI and I'm gonna have to start looking at other players as well to get a better picture
It's worth noting that he made an actual case against Bona, one that was worth considering. How was that just a boring pressure vote? Why did he back off of it, and why did he credit you and ghug for convincing him to do so?

His next move is to jump to celaph:
Squigs44 wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:38 pm
So I liked Celaphs vibes early on, but since page 13 Celaph has made 7 posts:
1 question to me
4 posts defending/agreeing with me
1 posts giving the quote I asked for
1 post saying good job DL

I can't help but shake the feeling Celaph is trying to buddy me after my post saying I liked em.

He did, in fact, townread celaph early. So this post makes sense. Six minutes later, without Celaph posting again, he votes for Celaph:



I have done this a number of times as scum when I think "hmmm, maybe I should bus a teammate, but not that hard" and then realize that it's too obvious if I don't actually put a little heat on him. That's how this feels to me.

This is his first question to Celaph awhile after voting him:



Does this seem like hardball to you? It's shit. He puts "pressure" on Celaph by voting for him and then leaves him a first grade level question to bail himself out of it.

Later:



More shit that he knows isn't going to stick with anyone else. He dropped his vote on a teammate on day 1 knowing it wasn't going to spur anyone else into wagoning him.

Since some people don't know what a scumread is, ##VOTE Squigs
I think the most interesting thing Bo picks up on in picking apart Squigs vs. Bona compared to Squigs vs. celaph is how much more intense the approach was to Bona. It certainly suggests the possibility that if Squigs is scum, celaph is more likely to be scum with him (and almost certainly that Squigs and Bona are never scum together). I don't scumread celaph (they are null to me right now), but I do have a slight scumlean on Squigs, so this - in my opinion - is an interesting observation to keep in mind if we flip Squigs.
Also page 77.

Trying to honor foodie last wishes and look at his pov since he's dead. He is very much concerned with bo reads. We should make a chart of bo reads, foodie reads, and see if that's a common group between them.

I do like his analysis on celaph and Squigs about how maybe they are both teammates.
foodcoats wrote:
Thu Nov 18, 2021 9:58 pm
It strikes me that bozo’s ATE is in his wheelhouse as scum. He made a fake cop claim one time to survive a DK that tricked me.

I also just never recall bozo excusing himself for low activity, but I know it’s also somewhat a nono to look too closely at OGI.

Still, I feel I gave too much a pass to bozo for that
On page 65.

This is a great meta based analysis on bozo that we shouldn't ignore. Anyone else can back up this bozo meta claims?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1696 Post by ghug » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:28 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:17 am
Also while I will make the effort to revisit ignored questions as a sort of apology for my somewhat selfish actions of yesterday, I will emphasize that if there's any important questions you absolutely want an answer you you are very likely better served by repeating it
Why do you scumread DL and Squigs?
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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1697 Post by snowy801 » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:30 am

ghug wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:28 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:17 am
Also while I will make the effort to revisit ignored questions as a sort of apology for my somewhat selfish actions of yesterday, I will emphasize that if there's any important questions you absolutely want an answer you you are very likely better served by repeating it
Why do you scumread DL and Squigs?
I don't scum read Squiggles. I thought I might've, somewhere in early-mid stages of D1 but I got over it

DL I'll have to think further on it, hold that thought

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1698 Post by Bonatogether » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:30 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:14 am
Bonatogether wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:11 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:08 am
bona I need to ask that you plugwalk all over a scum fellow. Anyone you want, go for it

Also hi darg, how you been?
what is plugwalking?
See: you on bozo D2 M70

Pick anyone and go for it. Pick me, if that's your preference too
i'll think about it

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1699 Post by ghug » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:31 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:30 am
ghug wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:28 am
snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:17 am
Also while I will make the effort to revisit ignored questions as a sort of apology for my somewhat selfish actions of yesterday, I will emphasize that if there's any important questions you absolutely want an answer you you are very likely better served by repeating it
Why do you scumread DL and Squigs?
I don't scum read Squiggles. I thought I might've, somewhere in early-mid stages of D1 but I got over it

DL I'll have to think further on it, hold that thought
Oh whoops why do you scumread DL and bona?

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Re: M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

#1700 Post by BesharamSabi » Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:32 am

snowy801 wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 1:20 am
As a final note, I observe that the aura of positivity that we've been carrying throughout the past few games was somewhat diminished in the 2nd half of day 1 and onwards, with a lot of players seemingly losing enthusiasm and passion for the ongoings. Perhaps part of that was my fault, but whatever the case I invite you all to reflect upon this matter and attempt to reignite the flames so to speak moving forward

Sorry to hit and run but I'm out (insofar as I ever tend to be out) so catch y'all later
I'm trying to bring my enthusiasm back. It kinda went away after the incident but I will bring it back even if I have to ask each remaining person in the game 3 questions every couple of hours. You all will hate me for that but I don't care.

But yea let's have fun and make jokes and bring back the shit posting as well. It's too serious in here now. Liven it up.

Have fun with your game. Going to analyze your Q&A tomorrow!
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