M1020 — Speed Run Mafia GAME THREAD [HIDDEN]

[DeathLlama8]

quick eod notes

- The position from ~3 hours to EOD to 1.5 hours to EOD (when snowy starts looking for a bo/ghug wagon) is really static without much actual wagon pushing or vote changing. I think this suggests that scum were either comfortable with the bona/snowy/squigs wagons, or they weren't around.
- snowy townreading basically all his competing wagons and pushing for a new one is positive signal (unless it's specifically snowy/bona, which seems less likely given bona's EOD), although I'm not sure he genuinely felt threatened by the daykill which weakens this a little

- damo's decision to start a doomed (he asked who wanted a sabi wagon before and nobody did) wagon on sabi with 25 minutes left when a wagon on bo, his earlier vote and one of the people he wanted dead in that list post, was getting started is weird. Bo flipped town so I'm not clear on what a scum motive would be though
- I thought it was interesting that celaph wasn't pushing snowy more. He says on pg69 that he doesn't like either of the main wagons, and asks Sabi (who previously scumread snowy) to reconsider their vote, but doesn't actually push for the wagon

- damo's bona vote, again over bo, is also weird and also something where I'm not sure what the motivation is
- the next big shift is after damo makes it 3-3-3, where I flip back to bona and foodcoats/worcej explicitly vote bo to defend bona (it's weird that foodcoats does so instead of voting snowy when voting snowy would put a non-bona wagon in the lead, as jamiet immediately calls out. it's also weird that worcej has the option to vote snowy and tie him in the lead, doesn't, and then says "don't forget about snowy!", but this was less subtle)
- this makes it 4-4, after which me/celaph flip to bo to tiebreak which seals the kill

tl;dr
- bona/squigs look better if mafia are active and Not Snowy, since they probably would've tried to do something earlier before EOD to protect
- snowy better, others' (celaph, food) interactions with snowy weird/bad
- damo, food sus

[Bonatogether]

Okay so most of foods scumhunting has been about me, and I've outlined a few of the things that bother me, but here is his vote and push on Bozo:



His platform on Bozo (at least in this instance) is two parts. First, he references Jamie's post claiming Bozo is stale. Here is Jamie's post:


Again, food invoking someone else's name when pushing forward an idea, but jumping to conclusions that the original poster did not make.

On the second point, food claims that Bozo had a read that he wasn't pushing. However, Bozo wasn't making a case on Bo, he was pointing out that Sabis claim that Bo scumread Celaph and myself was in contradiction to his vote. There's really nothing to follow up with here from my view
Again, foods scumhunting seems to resolve around picking quotes from long interactions and misinterpreting what is being said

This is disingenuous. There's like 10 jamie posts where he says some variation on 'bozo boring'/'bozo stale'/

Jamie never once used the words stale or boring. You're probably thinking of this post:

What makes bozo more scum/weaker town player than worcej? Bozo atleast has made comments about the game and has voted several times that weren't joke votes like worcej.

Maybe I'm missing something about bozo that you and food can see that I can't. Worcej just seems worse to me I dunno.

They are both very low impact but Bozo's lack of participation seems more weird for him. He's made a few game-related comments but he doesn't seem to be trying.

Problem with this is that this post came after the foodcoats post. Foodcoats specifically said "Riffing off what Jamie caught above", so I quoted the post Jamie had just made about Bozo.

At this point we are splitting hairs about reading comprehension, which I'm gonna try to avoid since town can misread/misinterpret things just as easily as scum.

you're factually wrong

Based off what you caught up on, who do you think has been the weakest player so far?

Until the last few hours, probably me. Now, it's Bozo, who has contributed almost nought.

HI Jamiet, I'm back at it asking for explanation for this vote to help my analysis.

Why are you voting for bozo and what caused this? What does bozo need to do to get the sus off of him for you? Thank you ahead of time.

He could participate, that would be nice, wouldn't it? He is currently doing nothing.

##Vote Bozotheclown who has still done almost nothing

They are both very low impact but Bozo's lack of participation seems more weird for him. He's made a few game-related comments but he doesn't seem to be trying.

Played mafia for 1 hour.

And in that time you have contributed a great deal more than Bozo has.

[DeathLlama8]

damo's vote for Bonatogether at EOD did not make much sense. I did not like ghug's reads. foodcoats had some questionable votes. snowy might have been the only mafia at risk at EOD, which could explain some of the vote movements. Jamie could have been bussing snowy.

My top scum suspects, in order, are:
1. damo
2. ghug
3. foodcoats
4. snowy
5. Jamie

why did you feel the need to rank your scum suspects? What reasoning did you specifically have for putting certain scumreads above others?

[celaph]

Oh well. At least bo is dead.

This apathy reminds me a lot of scum ghug's pushes on Chaqa. Not sure why I didn't see it earlier.

[DeathLlama8]

Bona Sabi DL scumteam???

Damn that would be a fun scum team.

Did you pick this scum team because they said that killing me was pointless?

Damo I dunno how to explain to you but just you are so far in this game now that have any sort of scum vibes from me. Why are you tunneling in on me so much? Like you went from scum to town to scum vibes for me?can you point our incidents or post that trigger this besides vibes? I want something concrete from you.

1. Yes that is why I picked the team.

I don't understand first sentence of next para.

I dont think I'm tunnelling on you. You are being very verbose, questioning and emphasising meta change. My auto reaction to this was scum pretence but then wasn't so sure. Worcej's observation about noob PR/scum excitabilty pushed me back to my original thinking.

Are you so sure that sabi is scum that you want to guess the remaining mafia based on who's most likely to be their partner, rather than individual scumminess? Also, why single out me/bona as sabi defenders when there are so many others?

[ghug]

Time for some wagon analysis.

If Bona is scum:
Bona became a lead wagon twice (actually three times, but the first was early joke votes). The first was ghug, Squigs, snowy, DL (in that order), Squigs was alone in second with 3, and then Jamie voted snowy to tie him for second, and then Snowy moved to bo to make it a three way tie. DL switched to bo and then I did, and the wagon was down to just Squigs for a while. The second was Squigs, celaph, damo, DL. Snowy was alone in second until food moved to bo to tie it. DL/celaph switched at the same time to put bo in the lead to end the day. celaph doesn't make a ton of sense as a busser here, as he made the wagon relevant again after it wasn't. DL and Squigs could both be bussers: the former was the final person on both times, and the latter got on the wagon when it was joke votes and may have felt weird about leaving. Jamie or snowy could have been protecting after the first peak, but probably not both, because Jamie voted for snowy. Warg and food both jumped on to bo pretty late, but in a very blatant way that makes it look less like scum protection.

If snowy is scum:
He didn't the bona/Squigs/snowy trio at the top, and worked pretty hard to change it, so I'd look for at least one teammate in there. His wagon (darcej, celaph, Jamie) formed very slowly. I could see there being a busser there, the first two because the wagon wasn't a big thing yet and snowy can be expected to worm out of sticky situations, the latter because he likes to bus, but again probably not if the other wagons were scum too. celaph was the death knell of the wagon, so I'd look to him first, I guess. DL helped him form the bo wagon, which makes them look like unlikely teammates.

If Squiggles is scum:
The wagon was bona/bo/food when it got to 3. The Bona wagon emerged in response, but Squigs himself was the catalyst there, so I don't see snowy or DL (the next voters) being quick to follow him to protect him. food chose to jump off once bo was in the lead, which could suggest food+Squigs+bona/snowy.

If none of them are scum:
I like the people who were jumping around and trying to get new wagons going (snowy, DL, food, worcej, damo).

[ghug]

Christ y'all I almost voted bona

By this do you mean that you would have switched from Bo to Bona if Llama and I hadn't switched the other way?

Yes, I noticed your vote as I was about to hit submit.

[ghug]

Oh well. At least bo is dead.

This apathy reminds me a lot of scum ghug's pushes on Chaqa. Not sure why I didn't see it earlier.

antipathy*

[Squigs44]

Bona I don't think you read what I posted, you read what you wanted me to be saying so you could prove me wrong. Foods post literally said "Riffing off what Jamie caught above", so I quoted the post from Jamie above where he said that. Yes I agree that Jamie expressed an opinion about Bozo lacking participation during the game, I even gave one of the posts you just quoted. But from the language in foods post, those were not the quotes he was referencing.

This is getting tiring

[Squigs44]

Time for some wagon analysis.

If Bona is scum:
Bona became a lead wagon twice (actually three times, but the first was early joke votes). The first was ghug, Squigs, snowy, DL (in that order), Squigs was alone in second with 3, and then Jamie voted snowy to tie him for second, and then Snowy moved to bo to make it a three way tie. DL switched to bo and then I did, and the wagon was down to just Squigs for a while. The second was Squigs, celaph, damo, DL. Snowy was alone in second until food moved to bo to tie it. DL/celaph switched at the same time to put bo in the lead to end the day. celaph doesn't make a ton of sense as a busser here, as he made the wagon relevant again after it wasn't. DL and Squigs could both be bussers: the former was the final person on both times, and the latter got on the wagon when it was joke votes and may have felt weird about leaving. Jamie or snowy could have been protecting after the first peak, but probably not both, because Jamie voted for snowy. Warg and food both jumped on to bo pretty late, but in a very blatant way that makes it look less like scum protection.

If snowy is scum:
He didn't the bona/Squigs/snowy trio at the top, and worked pretty hard to change it, so I'd look for at least one teammate in there. His wagon (darcej, celaph, Jamie) formed very slowly. I could see there being a busser there, the first two because the wagon wasn't a big thing yet and snowy can be expected to worm out of sticky situations, the latter because he likes to bus, but again probably not if the other wagons were scum too. celaph was the death knell of the wagon, so I'd look to him first, I guess. DL helped him form the bo wagon, which makes them look like unlikely teammates.

If Squiggles is scum:
The wagon was bona/bo/food when it got to 3. The Bona wagon emerged in response, but Squigs himself was the catalyst there, so I don't see snowy or DL (the next voters) being quick to follow him to protect him. food chose to jump off once bo was in the lead, which could suggest food+Squigs+bona/snowy.

If none of them are scum:
I like the people who were jumping around and trying to get new wagons going (snowy, DL, food, worcej, damo).

I just vomitted

[celaph]

@Snowy:

How did you go from saying this...

I'm at like
Bona
Bo
Bozo
Jamie

If I can't have one of those, probably celaph because he's been bad or snowy because the schtick is easy to hide behind.

Fuck the b-line

...to actively helping create and push a wagon on Bo_Sox just a page or two later?

My read was that Snowy was making a joke related to the fact that ghug he three people with names starting with 'b' as his scum reads and not making any statement about his own reads.

That said, your comment did get me to reread Snowy's EoD. He never really advocates for the Bo wagon seeming apathetic even when he votes him:

There's not a material difference between bona and bo to me, but I suppose beggars can't be choosers

##vote bo_sox

He then proceeds to make like 0 substantive points during the last 15 minutes of the day. For someone who said that "This is my kind of EoD", he did very little to influence where the wagons ended up. Not a great look in my opinion.

[celaph]

My scumreads at the moment are Snowy and Bozo. The way Worcej moved off Snowy also bothers me, if Snowy is indeed scum.

Do you see Bozo and Snowy as scum together or independently?

[ghug]

Time for some wagon analysis.

If Bona is scum:
Bona became a lead wagon twice (actually three times, but the first was early joke votes). The first was ghug, Squigs, snowy, DL (in that order), Squigs was alone in second with 3, and then Jamie voted snowy to tie him for second, and then Snowy moved to bo to make it a three way tie. DL switched to bo and then I did, and the wagon was down to just Squigs for a while. The second was Squigs, celaph, damo, DL. Snowy was alone in second until food moved to bo to tie it. DL/celaph switched at the same time to put bo in the lead to end the day. celaph doesn't make a ton of sense as a busser here, as he made the wagon relevant again after it wasn't. DL and Squigs could both be bussers: the former was the final person on both times, and the latter got on the wagon when it was joke votes and may have felt weird about leaving. Jamie or snowy could have been protecting after the first peak, but probably not both, because Jamie voted for snowy. Warg and food both jumped on to bo pretty late, but in a very blatant way that makes it look less like scum protection.

If snowy is scum:
He didn't the bona/Squigs/snowy trio at the top, and worked pretty hard to change it, so I'd look for at least one teammate in there. His wagon (darcej, celaph, Jamie) formed very slowly. I could see there being a busser there, the first two because the wagon wasn't a big thing yet and snowy can be expected to worm out of sticky situations, the latter because he likes to bus, but again probably not if the other wagons were scum too. celaph was the death knell of the wagon, so I'd look to him first, I guess. DL helped him form the bo wagon, which makes them look like unlikely teammates.

If Squiggles is scum:
The wagon was bona/bo/food when it got to 3. The Bona wagon emerged in response, but Squigs himself was the catalyst there, so I don't see snowy or DL (the next voters) being quick to follow him to protect him. food chose to jump off once bo was in the lead, which could suggest food+Squigs+bona/snowy.

If none of them are scum:
I like the people who were jumping around and trying to get new wagons going (snowy, DL, food, worcej, damo).

I just vomitted

15 th15 5<um th3at3r???!?

[celaph]

@bona
Do you still think celaph was defending you? He denied it, and I didn't notice a further discussion from you.

It wasn't defending per se, but it was definitely something that would have pushed people away from my wagon.

I think this is probably the most accurate description. I was sitting on Bona's wagon, but I personally was really unsure of my position and I don't think that my expressions of uncertainty were encouraging people onto the wagon.

[Squigs44]

Celaph might be the most self aware person I've seen play this game and I'm not sure how to feel about it

[Bonatogether]

Bona I don't think you read what I posted, you read what you wanted me to be saying so you could prove me wrong. Foods post literally said "Riffing off what Jamie caught above", so I quoted the post from Jamie above where he said that. Yes I agree that Jamie expressed an opinion about Bozo lacking participation during the game, I even gave one of the posts you just quoted. But from the language in foods post, those were not the quotes he was referencing.

This is getting tiring

i did read what you said, and under a literal, 100% exact reading, you are correct, but I used my reading comprehension skills to understand that foodcoats may have used a slightly different word to refer to the same thing, possibly.

[celaph]

Hiya
I'm reading. I'm sure I'll be up by eon. Summaries appreciated.

Sabi been very vocal, either tryharding or pretending. Bozo absentish. Everyone else more or less as per usual. Lots of vote swapping near EOD probably the most interesting aspect thus far.

I see what looks like some tie preventions... strange that it ended up SO overkill on bo. Later unnecessary votes are unlikely to be scum, right?

I mean, as I was the later unnecessary vote, yes, that is the right conclusion. Though I think your reasoning here is poor. With <60 seconds to go it was 4-4 and both DL and myself independently chose to flip (I hadn't seen his vote when I voted).

[DeathLlama8]

it also really wasn't that overkill on bo - it just looked that way because celaph and I were on the same opposing wagon

[celaph]

I dont think we can get too much out of VCA. There was too much volatility at EOD mainly I suspect due to tie avoidance.

This feels like a poor take if only because you can always just analyze the stuff before the last minute. Beyond that, multiple motivations for the last minute swaps can be considered.

[BesharamSabi]

Yesterday left a bad taste in my mouth so I'm trying to bring back my enthusiasm for mafia.

Going to try to catch up before EON.

Here are some questions for everyone while I'm catching up :

Which player read changed the most from EOD? What was the cause of the change?

Who's read do you disagree with the most and why? It can't be a read involving yours.

Who are the people in danger for day 2 kill?

Anyway going to quickly read. Hopefully I don't die but I left yall my will and testament in case I do end up dead.