M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

[Durga]

Wait child guesses 100 percent count as visits, right?

[Doom427]

Scum kill me tonight in any case so no point in not killing Kak

Why though?

I see why they would want to kill you, because they know for sure what role you are, so sure, murder the child.

But then... we know we should kill Kak? It gives us information. We don't have to kill Kak today. The lone benefit of killing you tonight is to prevent another child from scanning you, which is a benefit, yeah.

But the lone advantage of killing Kak today for town is.. making it obvious mafia team should shoot you? Mafia could decide they don't want to make it obvious what we should do. Hell, you could be lying... in which case it's great to wait, and let Mafia tell us which of you is scum.

We want mafia kills to give us info. If kak is scum and we kill kak, we get no info from mafia flipping you. By forcing them to tell us info, we gain every benefit. Either they shoot a non-claimant, and we get to know their role, or they shoot a claimant, and that's even better for town.

If we let Kak live and mk and they NK you what do we learn?

assuming that's not a typo, then we get the real child to scan you, which is great? You just say "Yep, child scanned me". No lost child says "That didn't happen, damo isn't child", then... yay! We know you're town, and you know someone else is town. That's good. It guarantees we don't misskil between y'all?

But of course, the more I explain the benefit to town of doing this, the more it seems like Mafia would say "Yeah, that's a benefit, let's not let that happen." So I guess I have to wonder what the benefit to town is FOR killing today? I guess it saves real Tracker from a random NK?

[Jamiet99uk]

Wait child guesses 100 percent count as visits, right?

Yes.

[Durga]

Kaka - Vecna -???

[damo666]

I suppose scum could let me live and use the NK to try kill the tracker. If they miss there will be 2 lost sibling townclears tomorrow and the tracker pool narrows [and for the attentive the pool is already small].

So, scum, gonna kill me or let me live?

[damo666]

Kaka - Vecna -???

You think Vecna bussed? Nah!

[Durga]

Kaka - Vecna -???

You think Vecna bussed? Nah!

Oh why did I think Vecna was on ifischl. He might have bussed? Kaka was kinda weird d1

[ghug]

Ok, so ignoring all the early joke votes, snowy gets attacked first by

RDR, Then Jamie, Then Me.

I jump off snowie for Kak, and then off Kak to damo.

RDR posts some stuff that... well, I consider sorta townie, but who knows. Also gets annoyed at Jamie during the night.

Jamie has been posting a lot, mostly on mechanical stuff. I have no idea how to read people, jesus. This game is a pain... ummm....

Well, I thought my snowie voters were scum theory would hold more water. Maybe I need to actually see Day 1 what people were thinking about Snowie. Or maybe... scum who pushed Snowy was townclear would be more likely? Ok, this game is impossible

Like this post

[ghug]

It really is very simple.

Kak is scum.

There are 5 players left who know this to be true.

Work it out.

Three scum, the real tracker, and... you?

You would only know if you did in fact visit snowy last night. Did you?

Wait why?

[ghug]

It really is very simple.

Kak is scum.

There are 5 players left who know this to be true.

Work it out.

If I am understanding you well, maybe you are wrong. Kak didn't said you didn't visit anyone.

Ohh I shouldn't be trying to think before coffee.

[Durga]

Oh wait what *did* Kak say exactly lol

[ghug]

Ok, if we kill Scum!Kak today, damo dies. This is bad.

If you think Kak is scum, you SHOULD NOT VOTE KAK TODAY. Because Mafia kills Damo, and the other child can't be cleared. If we force Mafia to play their hand instead, they either kill Damo, and make it obvious which claim is true and which is bad, or they kill someone else, forcing themselves to kill Damo the next night.

Of course, we also shouldn't vote Damo today, for the same and opposite reason. It gives momentum up to the other team.

If y'all think I am scum, it is better for town to just vote for me. Because I know for sure we're getting a scum the next day, and it's much better to leave Damo alive for day 3.

Of course, this is y'alls billionth game, and my... second. So maybe there's some reason not to do this, but it seems like the most optimal town path. This has probably happened dozen of times in other games, so maybe I am missing something but... ummm, don't think I am?

Yeah does scum Doom really do this?

[Durga]

Well I guess it doesn't matter what Kak said because damo claims he visited the dead guy so that should have been sus for Kak

[ghug]

Scum kill me tonight in any case so no point in not killing Kak

Why though?

I see why they would want to kill you, because they know for sure what role you are, so sure, murder the child.

But then... we know we should kill Kak? It gives us information. We don't have to kill Kak today. The lone benefit of killing you tonight is to prevent another child from scanning you, which is a benefit, yeah.

But the lone advantage of killing Kak today for town is.. making it obvious mafia team should shoot you? Mafia could decide they don't want to make it obvious what we should do. Hell, you could be lying... in which case it's great to wait, and let Mafia tell us which of you is scum.

We want mafia kills to give us info. If kak is scum and we kill kak, we get no info from mafia flipping you. By forcing them to tell us info, we gain every benefit. Either they shoot a non-claimant, and we get to know their role, or they shoot a claimant, and that's even better for town.

I think this logic is the result of only having played the no-flip game. There are a couple reasons to kill Kak now

1. His vote is not inconsequential.
2. He has to die at some point.
3. The real tracker can potentially get more info.

If there were a real chance of damo lying here, I'd agree with you, but I see no reason for scum damo to do this.

[ghug]

Why can't the other child just claim then. Surely mafia won't fake claim child

Don't see why not.

TFB?

Wat

The other child shouldn't claim now. Stop helping the mafia PR hunt.

[Durga]

Why can't the other child just claim then. Surely mafia won't fake claim child

Don't see why not.

TFB?

Wat

The other child shouldn't claim now. Stop helping the mafia PR hunt.

They aren't PR. Their only function is to clear each other.

[ghug]

Don't see why not.

TFB?

Wat

The other child shouldn't claim now. Stop helping the mafia PR hunt.

They aren't PR. Their only function is to clear each other.

And we don't want the clears yet, we want them at the end of the game.

It's still a unique role that can be claimed, so having them around until the end gets us a CC battle at worst and an endgame clear at best.

[ghug]

##VOTE Kak

[damo666]

Why can't the other child just claim then. Surely mafia won't fake claim child

Don't see why not.

TFB?

Wat

The other child shouldn't claim now. Stop helping the mafia PR hunt.

Yep narrows the tracker pool for scum. They should claim EON though in case I am the NK and cannot confirm them.

[damo666]

What's the advantage of not hammering?