M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Vecna]

I wasn't actually suspicious of Eden Vecna, as you'd know if you were fairly assessing my own comments instead of adding whatever gotcha flavor you're going for

As to you, the fact that up to yesterday I could not fully grasp at the nature of your thoughts on the game state and your scum reads even after going through your ISO said to me that you are literally coasting and not committing to any particular stance which admittedly is weird but also very different from your scum/3P play

Hey, the people whose opinions I respect most these days happened to help me change my mind on you so I guess you could take it as a compliment if you squint a bit. But the point stands that if I asked anyone else 24 hours ago "what the fuck is Vecna on" the only answer anyone would've been able to give me is probably "acid" or something

I think I was actually gonna let it work in your favor, and wasnt intended as a gotcha, since I was feeling some recurring suspicion there myself at the time of reading.

As for your other statement; I guess its somewhat fair, but youre also basing it on Durga who probably put on some massively rose-tinted glasses and compared my play to a very easy game we dumpstered together when ND was tunning the show as scum.

I dont think this is a particularly easy gamestate were in atm. I dont feel like faking some measure of certainty I do not have. If people think that is scum indicative, thats their prerogative, but ill only say I wouldnt have any issues actually faking certainty in this situation if I was so inclined. And as scum, I -probably- would be, because I know that that works much better to convince most people.

[snowy801]

I still have no idea what Bunny's on about but apparently other people do so whatever

You know when bozo went all mysterious old man in the woods at me shit made perfect sense. Be like bozo, don't be like Bunny

[President Eden]

zzz

(cont.)

Go ahead and cue up the “no one: literally no one:” memes for this post, if you’re convinced the clears are good feel free to skip.

I believe worcej’s and Bona’s claims the most of all. bozo’s version of the N2 events just don’t make sense. Mafia isn’t going to hold their shot and overextend by exposing a second team member to cover for the first one’s counterclaim war. Not when there’s an Oracle and a JOAT who can blow the entire plan sky-high. Perhaps this is an argument for pointing the Oracle at bozo just for insurance, but it’s such a silly plan that I don’t see the need to respect it. If they get us here then okay fine lol.

Next most believable to me is Chaqa, actually, because he has the earliest uncontested claim, meaning that the “real Cop” was overwhelmingly likely to see his claim and counterclaim but simply didn’t. It’s only even possible to me that jasnah or damo were the Cop, and damo only because Chaqa made a scene of retracting instantly and then didn’t bring it back up until damo died. Just from a numbers standpoint that’s unlikely.

TheFlyingBoat’s claim is believable along similar lines; in addition to the previous potential claimants, lfischl could also have been JOAT, but otherwise everyone has had a chance to counterclaim Boat and not done so. Again, just from a numbers standpoint, that’s unlikely.

Least believable is Bunny… but that designation means little as I think he’s well over 80% to be town. If you want insurance we can point the Oracle at jasnah.

I think jasnah is the best reveal for the following reasons:
• If jasnah turns up Cop, we catch Chaqa.
• If jasnah turns up Miller, we catch BunnyGo.
• If jasnah turns up JOAT, we catch TheFlyingBoat, and we also get to start thinking about our other clears.
• If jasnah turns up VT, then it’s highly likely all our clears are good. There are some very fringe scenarios where jasnah is VT and some/all of our clears are bad, but essentially extend the logic above about mafia overextending and numerical unlikelihood and dial it up to 11. It’s just not what happened.
I know I’ve trod a lot of well-worn ground here, but because the game is literally auto from my perspective if the clears are right, I figured it was worth doing due diligence to ensure that they are right. I am solidly convinced they all are.

Since I am not the Oracle, I suppose my next job is to convince the clears to remove me or someone else from the POE.

Its funny that you've been attacking me over holding this opinion all game, yet nothing of those basic facts that made jasnah a good reveal have changed, and now youre suddenly jumping on that boat.

Also, none of the facts that why Chaqa is the most believable PR (bar W/B) have changed much, yet these things you mention now were the things you have disregarded in your assesment most of the game.

So, help me with this; why is this post not just pretty words that dont match with your general play this game whatsoever?

What’s funnier is that 3 people +1’d this gotcha garbage.

I haven’t attacked you a single time over the PRs in this game. I once defended myself from your unwarranted attacks during N2. You simply made that up whole cloth.

You’d know the reason for this transition if you bothered to read the dialogue that came after this post instead of lazily fishing for gotchas.

[snowy801]

I wasn't actually suspicious of Eden Vecna, as you'd know if you were fairly assessing my own comments instead of adding whatever gotcha flavor you're going for

As to you, the fact that up to yesterday I could not fully grasp at the nature of your thoughts on the game state and your scum reads even after going through your ISO said to me that you are literally coasting and not committing to any particular stance which admittedly is weird but also very different from your scum/3P play

Hey, the people whose opinions I respect most these days happened to help me change my mind on you so I guess you could take it as a compliment if you squint a bit. But the point stands that if I asked anyone else 24 hours ago "what the fuck is Vecna on" the only answer anyone would've been able to give me is probably "acid" or something

I think I was actually gonna let it work in your favor, and wasnt intended as a gotcha, since I was feeling some recurring suspicion there myself at the time of reading.

As for your other statement; I guess its somewhat fair, but youre also basing it on Durga who probably put on some massively rose-tinted glasses and compared my play to a very easy game we dumpstered together when ND was tunning the show as scum.

I dont think this is a particularly easy gamestate were in atm. I dont feel like faking some measure of certainty I do not have. If people think that is scum indicative, thats their prerogative, but ill only say I wouldnt have any issues actually faking certainty in this situation if I was so inclined. And as scum, I -probably- would be, because I know that that works much better to convince most people.

I do concede that shit doesn't make sense, but I argue that if for whatever reason PoE gets wiped out and the game doesn't end, which I'm finding more and more likely, there's still going to be like at most 2 scum and they can choose who to kill then and there

No reason to doubt our chosen path yet

[President Eden]

##VOTE Vecna

[Vecna]

How much controversial have you said yourself?

Also, can you genuinely say that when you reread all my statements ive made throughout the game, they werent controversial?

How many players were townreading Worcej as their strongest read D1/D2? Was that not controversial?

How many players were hard defending Kgray Day2 when almost the entire game was scumreading her?

Who was one of the first people to push on snowy for scum? Who was the first to make a detailed case on Chaqa day1? Get him to cry out and invoke his lord and savior, taco bell?

I could go on for awhile, but apparently a lot of my fellow town players just didnt really feel the need to interpret my posts in a fair way this game.

Im asking you to put in some effort, and actually evaluate your impression here.

Also, you should probably read up on my town games to see if I get intoxicated. I dont think thats really an alignment indicative thing.

You missed this Sabi, and id like you to trust me that youre wrong in your assessment of me.

Maybe I'm wrong but your posting style when scum matches your posting style in this game including how you defend yourself and how you vote/state your opinion. Why else would I comb through game 1017 to verify/back up this claim. I actually put thought and work into this. This wasn't some hunch or what not.

Maybe you should ask Ghug to have him tell you how similar my town and scum games are when compared.

No offense meant, but I do not think any player playing their first game with me can meaningfully tell the difference, especially not by comparing it to a single game as scum.

Ill not hold it against you if you stick to this opinion, and I wont join this wagon against you because I think your reasons come from a good place, but do me the courtesy of confirming whether what im saying is true or not.

Id also like snowy to answer if I defend myself this close to the vest when im scum or not.

[Vecna]

Go ahead and cue up the “no one: literally no one:” memes for this post, if you’re convinced the clears are good feel free to skip.

I believe worcej’s and Bona’s claims the most of all. bozo’s version of the N2 events just don’t make sense. Mafia isn’t going to hold their shot and overextend by exposing a second team member to cover for the first one’s counterclaim war. Not when there’s an Oracle and a JOAT who can blow the entire plan sky-high. Perhaps this is an argument for pointing the Oracle at bozo just for insurance, but it’s such a silly plan that I don’t see the need to respect it. If they get us here then okay fine lol.

Next most believable to me is Chaqa, actually, because he has the earliest uncontested claim, meaning that the “real Cop” was overwhelmingly likely to see his claim and counterclaim but simply didn’t. It’s only even possible to me that jasnah or damo were the Cop, and damo only because Chaqa made a scene of retracting instantly and then didn’t bring it back up until damo died. Just from a numbers standpoint that’s unlikely.

TheFlyingBoat’s claim is believable along similar lines; in addition to the previous potential claimants, lfischl could also have been JOAT, but otherwise everyone has had a chance to counterclaim Boat and not done so. Again, just from a numbers standpoint, that’s unlikely.

Least believable is Bunny… but that designation means little as I think he’s well over 80% to be town. If you want insurance we can point the Oracle at jasnah.

I think jasnah is the best reveal for the following reasons:
• If jasnah turns up Cop, we catch Chaqa.
• If jasnah turns up Miller, we catch BunnyGo.
• If jasnah turns up JOAT, we catch TheFlyingBoat, and we also get to start thinking about our other clears.
• If jasnah turns up VT, then it’s highly likely all our clears are good. There are some very fringe scenarios where jasnah is VT and some/all of our clears are bad, but essentially extend the logic above about mafia overextending and numerical unlikelihood and dial it up to 11. It’s just not what happened.
I know I’ve trod a lot of well-worn ground here, but because the game is literally auto from my perspective if the clears are right, I figured it was worth doing due diligence to ensure that they are right. I am solidly convinced they all are.

Since I am not the Oracle, I suppose my next job is to convince the clears to remove me or someone else from the POE.

Its funny that you've been attacking me over holding this opinion all game, yet nothing of those basic facts that made jasnah a good reveal have changed, and now youre suddenly jumping on that boat.

Also, none of the facts that why Chaqa is the most believable PR (bar W/B) have changed much, yet these things you mention now were the things you have disregarded in your assesment most of the game.

So, help me with this; why is this post not just pretty words that dont match with your general play this game whatsoever?

What’s funnier is that 3 people +1’d this gotcha garbage.

I haven’t attacked you a single time over the PRs in this game. I once defended myself from your unwarranted attacks during N2. You simply made that up whole cloth.

You’d know the reason for this transition if you bothered to read the dialogue that came after this post instead of lazily fishing for gotchas.

uhhuh

[Vecna]

I wasn't actually suspicious of Eden Vecna, as you'd know if you were fairly assessing my own comments instead of adding whatever gotcha flavor you're going for

As to you, the fact that up to yesterday I could not fully grasp at the nature of your thoughts on the game state and your scum reads even after going through your ISO said to me that you are literally coasting and not committing to any particular stance which admittedly is weird but also very different from your scum/3P play

Hey, the people whose opinions I respect most these days happened to help me change my mind on you so I guess you could take it as a compliment if you squint a bit. But the point stands that if I asked anyone else 24 hours ago "what the fuck is Vecna on" the only answer anyone would've been able to give me is probably "acid" or something

I think I was actually gonna let it work in your favor, and wasnt intended as a gotcha, since I was feeling some recurring suspicion there myself at the time of reading.

As for your other statement; I guess its somewhat fair, but youre also basing it on Durga who probably put on some massively rose-tinted glasses and compared my play to a very easy game we dumpstered together when ND was tunning the show as scum.

I dont think this is a particularly easy gamestate were in atm. I dont feel like faking some measure of certainty I do not have. If people think that is scum indicative, thats their prerogative, but ill only say I wouldnt have any issues actually faking certainty in this situation if I was so inclined. And as scum, I -probably- would be, because I know that that works much better to convince most people.

I do concede that shit doesn't make sense, but I argue that if for whatever reason PoE gets wiped out and the game doesn't end, which I'm finding more and more likely, there's still going to be like at most 2 scum and they can choose who to kill then and there

No reason to doubt our chosen path yet

What do you feel about PE's reaction just now?

Was my post truly that egregious?

[snowy801]

You missed this Sabi, and id like you to trust me that youre wrong in your assessment of me.

Maybe I'm wrong but your posting style when scum matches your posting style in this game including how you defend yourself and how you vote/state your opinion. Why else would I comb through game 1017 to verify/back up this claim. I actually put thought and work into this. This wasn't some hunch or what not.

Maybe you should ask Ghug to have him tell you how similar my town and scum games are when compared.

No offense meant, but I do not think any player playing their first game with me can meaningfully tell the difference, especially not by comparing it to a single game as scum.

Ill not hold it against you if you stick to this opinion, and I wont join this wagon against you because I think your reasons come from a good place, but do me the courtesy of confirming whether what im saying is true or not.

Id also like snowy to answer if I defend myself this close to the vest when im scum or not.

I don't think your play is reminiscent of any of the games I've seen of you, no
Maybe that scum game but there's definitely different feels and I'm not willing to misascribe attributes out of paranoia of past mistakes, which is where you seem to be leading me towards

The fact of the matter is that until you get flipped I'm not willing to entertain doubts about Chaqa or TFB or whoever

[snowy801]

I think I was actually gonna let it work in your favor, and wasnt intended as a gotcha, since I was feeling some recurring suspicion there myself at the time of reading.

As for your other statement; I guess its somewhat fair, but youre also basing it on Durga who probably put on some massively rose-tinted glasses and compared my play to a very easy game we dumpstered together when ND was tunning the show as scum.

I dont think this is a particularly easy gamestate were in atm. I dont feel like faking some measure of certainty I do not have. If people think that is scum indicative, thats their prerogative, but ill only say I wouldnt have any issues actually faking certainty in this situation if I was so inclined. And as scum, I -probably- would be, because I know that that works much better to convince most people.

I do concede that shit doesn't make sense, but I argue that if for whatever reason PoE gets wiped out and the game doesn't end, which I'm finding more and more likely, there's still going to be like at most 2 scum and they can choose who to kill then and there

No reason to doubt our chosen path yet

What do you feel about PE's reaction just now?

Was my post truly that egregious?

No but I don't think Eden's scum. Do you? Why?

[President Eden]

What do you feel about PE's reaction just now?

Was my post truly that egregious?

Well, you lied about me attacking you, your question transparently wasn't driving at any genuine scumhunting conclusion, and you don't even suspect me or the town PRs while appearing skeptical of both in your response. So yes, it was that egregious.

[Chaqa]

What do you feel about PE's reaction just now?

Was my post truly that egregious?

Well, you lied about me attacking you, your question transparently wasn't driving at any genuine scumhunting conclusion, and you don't even suspect me or the town PRs while appearing skeptical of both in your response. So yes, it was that egregious.

I've found "lying" to be more town-indicative than scum.

[Vecna]

I wasn't actually suspicious of Eden Vecna, as you'd know if you were fairly assessing my own comments instead of adding whatever gotcha flavor you're going for

As to you, the fact that up to yesterday I could not fully grasp at the nature of your thoughts on the game state and your scum reads even after going through your ISO said to me that you are literally coasting and not committing to any particular stance which admittedly is weird but also very different from your scum/3P play

Hey, the people whose opinions I respect most these days happened to help me change my mind on you so I guess you could take it as a compliment if you squint a bit. But the point stands that if I asked anyone else 24 hours ago "what the fuck is Vecna on" the only answer anyone would've been able to give me is probably "acid" or something

I think I was actually gonna let it work in your favor, and wasnt intended as a gotcha, since I was feeling some recurring suspicion there myself at the time of reading.

As for your other statement; I guess its somewhat fair, but youre also basing it on Durga who probably put on some massively rose-tinted glasses and compared my play to a very easy game we dumpstered together when ND was tunning the show as scum.

I dont think this is a particularly easy gamestate were in atm. I dont feel like faking some measure of certainty I do not have. If people think that is scum indicative, thats their prerogative, but ill only say I wouldnt have any issues actually faking certainty in this situation if I was so inclined. And as scum, I -probably- would be, because I know that that works much better to convince most people.

I do concede that shit doesn't make sense, but I argue that if for whatever reason PoE gets wiped out and the game doesn't end, which I'm finding more and more likely, there's still going to be like at most 2 scum and they can choose who to kill then and there

No reason to doubt our chosen path yet

Also, we dont have that long. The poe is realistically 7 people, right. By the time we kill all those, scum will have won.

The most likely scenario: scum kill doom tonight, same situation tomorrow, minus 1 in the poe pool.

Then 3 full phases later, we'll be left with Chaqa, TFB, and 4 people in the Poe pool. Thatll be your milo most likely.

Are you really feeling confident we'll have won this game before that situation? I really dont think you feel its as easy as killing me. You know I wouldve just conceded that situation. Even if its me and someone else.....who could realistically be my partner for me to feel it worthwhile putting up any sort of fight? Surely only Worcej + Bona?

[President Eden]

Fabricating reasons to attack somebody and present skepticism toward our clears while still taking the stance that they're clears and we shouldn't vote them is exactly what a mafia in the POE would do while employing a strategy whose only apparent purpose is to make us doubt our clears.

[BunnyGo]

I took yesterday off because I was tired. What have I missed?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqpFo7ETo44

Extend this for however long you were missing, I think?

Post of the game

[Vecna]

What do you feel about PE's reaction just now?

Was my post truly that egregious?

Well, you lied about me attacking you, your question transparently wasn't driving at any genuine scumhunting conclusion, and you don't even suspect me or the town PRs while appearing skeptical of both in your response. So yes, it was that egregious.

Yeah, I barely even remember what I wrote in that post. Im so sorry for calling you out, with what I thought was a decent point at the time, clearly you ought to be far above that.

Goddamn look at what youre doing, youre making me sound like a snowy-light. You happy now?

[Vecna]

Fabricating reasons to attack somebody and present skepticism toward our clears while still taking the stance that they're clears and we shouldn't vote them is exactly what a mafia in the POE would do while employing a strategy whose only apparent purpose is to make us doubt our clears.

Snowy has been fabricating reasons to attack me non-stop and is also doubting our clears.

Sabi has not been representing my playstyle in a way that I do not feel is entirely accurate as well.

do all these things also come from scum?

You only seem to be bothered when it targets you.

Your response was over the top. Stop being so dramatic. It does not become you.

[President Eden]

What do you feel about PE's reaction just now?

Was my post truly that egregious?

Well, you lied about me attacking you, your question transparently wasn't driving at any genuine scumhunting conclusion, and you don't even suspect me or the town PRs while appearing skeptical of both in your response. So yes, it was that egregious.

Yeah, I barely even remember what I wrote in that post. Im so sorry for calling you out, with what I thought was a decent point at the time, clearly you ought to be far above that.

Goddamn look at what youre doing, youre making me sound like a snowy-light. You happy now?

You ought to be far above lazy gotchas. You are far above lazy gotchas when you're town. Quit half-assing your posts, this is why you're in the POE in the first place

[ghug]

Doom says-

I dunno, what is there to say? We already are the longest game ever, aren't we?

We're playing Chicken with scum team, and I think we can make another kill without me wanting to blink. I'll revote for someone else around death time, if vote is better on someone else.

Care to remind me your general thoughts?

Ghug and Sabi both put the least amount of voting pressure on Tom, who's our confirmed scum. So, they gotta go first. Chaqa is cop, full stop. You're Miller, really likely, Bona and WorceJ are town, pretty likely. Oracle should scan Bozo, cause who else is there to scan? I think that's the best choice.

I put the last amount of voting pressure on Tom?

[BunnyGo]

I still have no idea what Bunny's on about but apparently other people do so whatever

You know when bozo went all mysterious old man in the woods at me shit made perfect sense. Be like bozo, don't be like Bunny

He was scum…trying to make you town read him.

You’ll figure out what I’m on in a couple days.

It’ll sort itself out either way, I’m not worried.