M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

@Kgray: I don't think any of the Bozo voters could really have been scum besides Jamie, so we probably have to look in the Tom/worc voters for the last 1-2 scum.

Rivera or Snowy today probably?

Oh, yeah just Jamie I guess. Everyone else on bozo is clear.

Is ghug's vote for worcej too scummy? I don't know. I like Doom's point about scum wanting to get rid of soon-to-be-dead bozo instead of Tom so I think Vecna voting Tom there instead of bozo (having fully been proclaiming worcej town) looks very good.

Rivera and Doom don't get credit one way or another, I don't think.

Snowy probably looks worst to me for votes? But I also ended on Tom, so I don't know how damming that is? But flipping around between TFB and worcej isn't a good look...

Eden is probably going to be my late-game paranoia vote but I'm not there yet.

[Chaqa]

I want to vote ghug AND snowy out, tbh.

I don't care about the order.

[Chaqa]

I feel like the Oracle has to be in the group of Rivera, Ghug, Doom, and I know Ghug will be too damn stubborn to ever claim because he thinks it's lame, even if it hurts his team.

I wasn't just pushing people to claim Oracle for no reason. The Oracle has to be in the PoE and not claiming at this point is just anti-town.

[President Eden]

Eden is probably going to be my late-game paranoia vote but I'm not there yet.

At least you won't justify it by saying I "did my impostor tell"

[Chaqa]

Eden is probably going to be my late-game paranoia vote but I'm not there yet.

At least you won't justify it by saying I "did my impostor tell"

Your original imposter tell was just you using a certain word, can't remember what it was though.

[kgray]

Here's my thoughts on what happened in scum chat:

Bozo and Tom before they died:

Town is tearing themselves apart doubting all these claims. Let's leave them to fight and doubt, it's our greatest weapon this game.

Eventually we need to kill town clears, because that doesn't help town.

We also need to kill where worcej can't block us again.


Then they died. So they didn't get to update the details. *worcej* and *chaqa* and *I* specifically were probably fingered in these scum chats as doubtable claims to be left alone.

Now, why TFB wasn't killed, I don't know.

I don't think it's particularly clever or manipulative to say "thank you for clearing me". I think it's a sign what they're thinking about. They were thinking about "being clear" and not thinking about "solving".

Why do you think this is a towny reaction from them?

I just think you've got competing narratives going on. One the one hand, Sabi is too clueless to understand how mechanical clears work. On the other, they're so clever that they can make up a genuine-sounding reaction faked to suggest they believe ghug is actually the cop with a inno on them.

It's nonsense.

If you want to scumread them because they're not solving then I disagree with that for several reasons - it's a pretty lazy accusation when 1) they're new; 2) not everyone puts the same effort into solving; 3) how much solving are Rivera/worcej/you doing? - then I disagree, but whatever. Trying to tie their alignment to Durga's NK doesn't make any sense to me and it makes a million times more sense that someone is setting up new players and/or the "clears" for suspicion.

Also, being concerned about "being clear" isn't scummy. Obviously townies don't want to be scumread. But if you think they're so concerned with being clear, then why didn't scum!Sabi kill off doc!worcej who's been scumreading them all game?

It's not nonsense. You don't like it. And you're actively not listening to my words nor to Sabi's words.

Notice the difference in Sabi's words, my words, and your words.

1) You ascribe cleverness to their response to ghug. Neither Sabi nor I ever did. That's YOUR thought process.

2) You ascribe cluelessness to Sabi's noting Durga was a clear. I actively didn't ascribe cluelessness, rather that they had been taught step 1 of a scum plan. There's a serious difference. In addition, you're DENYING that they believed it. They not only believed it, they EMPHASIZED it after I pointed it out.

3) scum!Sabi cannot kill worcej, without giving Chaqa another scan. I don't know why the scum team gave him one and only one. It's very weird.

4) This is the big one: Why do you townread them? You've yet to answer that besides insulting my thoughts and willfully misrepresenting them. Even if you do townread Sabi, are they so far up your townreads you want them at KiLo above many of the other town leans left?

I honestly don't understand you at this point in the game. And for the first time since day 1, I'm more comfortable with rdr and vecna than you. Please help fix that.

You know what I don't have the energy to keep arguing with you about this. And later I probably won't have the time.

[Bonatogether]

Oh and @Bona, "Why did the chicken cross the road?"

idk, why did it?

[Bonatogether]

OK, a thought about when (and if) we voluntarily kill the oracle for information:

We still have (probably) at least 4 miskills, maybe 5 (I think worst case is 3 if bozo was doctor). The longer we delay, the less information we need. For example:

If I die, no serious need to oracle Jasnah.

If worcej dies, no need to oracle bozo (except if curious about him being GF for non-guilty scans)

Etc. Etc.

So, I suggest we continue delaying any oracle reveal/death for a while longer to force the scum team to EITHER show us stuff by their choices, OR continue not revealing at which point we can oracle what we need.

scum will never kills the players you list for that reason

[kgray]

We aren't voting out Vecna or Sabi today.

People voting for those two, find a different wagon

I agree with this, but I also enjoy that Chaqa has been outed PR the whole game and still has no power to tell us what to do.

Eh I endorse that message.

[kgray]

I kinda want to help Chaqa make snowy a wagon but also Rivera voting for Sabi really makes me feel like Rivera is the better option.

[kgray]

@bona find another scumbo please

[ghug]

We aren't voting out Vecna or Sabi today.

People voting for those two, find a different wagon

I agree with this, but I also enjoy that Chaqa has been outed PR the whole game and still has no power to tell us what to do.

I caught Tom and I called our Bozo basically the same time Bona did.

What have you done for town all game besides be a distraction?

I'm not saying you've been useless?

It's hard to assign credit when we don't know the roles of many people, but I think I deserve some credit for either pushing you or pushing Tom (maybe even both ).

[ghug]

I feel like the Oracle has to be in the group of Rivera, Ghug, Doom, and I know Ghug will be too damn stubborn to ever claim because he thinks it's lame, even if it hurts his team.

I wasn't just pushing people to claim Oracle for no reason. The Oracle has to be in the PoE and not claiming at this point is just anti-town.

If I were the oracle, I'd get myself miskilled without claiming.

[Chaqa]

I agree with this, but I also enjoy that Chaqa has been outed PR the whole game and still has no power to tell us what to do.

I caught Tom and I called our Bozo basically the same time Bona did.

What have you done for town all game besides be a distraction?

I'm not saying you've been useless?

It's hard to assign credit when we don't know the roles of many people, but I think I deserve some credit for either pushing you or pushing Tom (maybe even both ).

No one deserves credit for pushing me.

Ya'll outed the Cop day 1 and then the Doc day 2 lol

[Chaqa]

I feel like the Oracle has to be in the group of Rivera, Ghug, Doom, and I know Ghug will be too damn stubborn to ever claim because he thinks it's lame, even if it hurts his team.

I wasn't just pushing people to claim Oracle for no reason. The Oracle has to be in the PoE and not claiming at this point is just anti-town.

If I were the oracle, I'd get myself miskilled without claiming.

That's dumb.

[ghug]

I caught Tom and I called our Bozo basically the same time Bona did.

What have you done for town all game besides be a distraction?

I'm not saying you've been useless?

It's hard to assign credit when we don't know the roles of many people, but I think I deserve some credit for either pushing you or pushing Tom (maybe even both ).

No one deserves credit for pushing me.

Ya'll outed the Cop day 1 and then the Doc day 2 lol

Y'all*

I'm discussing the possibility that you're still scum, because it's a possibility that makes me happy.

[BunnyGo]

I don't see how you can't ascribe cleverness to their response to me, at least in contrast to the lack of cleverness you're asserting exists in their understanding of Durga's clearness.

I suppose it's what you mean by "cleverness". Sabi's play this game has been to glom on to any "pro town!Sabi" statement. I don't think this is necessarily "clever" scum play, but play that tries to promote their towniness as a campaign.

So responding "thank you for clearing me!" seems more habitual to me. Why do you think it is clever? Because you think it requires a sense of observer?

Scum Sabi immediately knows I'm lying, since it was the day 0 scan. Maybe they're the godfather and don't know I can't scan them day 0, in which case they might think I'm scum CCing their teammate. In either case, I think to give the reaction they gave, they have to avoid the initial "oh shit, this is weird, what's going on?" reaction and put themselves in the shoes of a townie who's excited to have finally been cleared. I don't think a player who can't understand who's clear and who isn't is that good at putting themselves in the shoes of a townie on their feet like that. If you want to claim they're scum because they're clueless, I think there's a flaw there's.

Ah! That’s ascribing cleverness. So I see why you and kgray think I am as well. I’m ascribing a similar mindset to the one that misunderstood durgas status. They’re just trying to pump themselves to safety and popularity of townread.

Your take requires them trying to solve. But there’s no NEED for scum!Sabi to solve. They don’t care. They just want people to townread them.

This is why I’m not using the word clever. Or seeing a dichotomy to my read. There’s a singlemindedness to it.

[ghug]

I feel like the Oracle has to be in the group of Rivera, Ghug, Doom, and I know Ghug will be too damn stubborn to ever claim because he thinks it's lame, even if it hurts his team.

I wasn't just pushing people to claim Oracle for no reason. The Oracle has to be in the PoE and not claiming at this point is just anti-town.

If I were the oracle, I'd get myself miskilled without claiming.

That's dumb.

Why?

You want the Oracle to claim so you can kill them, and think I wouldn't claim because I wouldn't take one for the team. An organic miskill where you know the dead person is town is strictly better.

The other option is claiming for a clear lategame. It's unclear at this point which one is going to be better. I think the Oracle is right to lay low for now in any case.

[President Eden]

i keep typing big posts and then going nah fuck it lol

y'all are all welcome

[ghug]

i keep typing big posts and then going nah fuck it lol

y'all are all welcome

Filtering yourself is scummy.