Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

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Octavious
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Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#1 Post by Octavious » Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:36 am

A light hearted venture into something completely different today :-D.

As a member of the Liberal Democrats I signed up to Lib Dem President Mark Pack's regular polling digest, Polling Unpacked. Today's edition had a look at an interesting little topic, namely
How willing are Brits to date people with opposing politics?
The results are quite remarkable

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... -312868634

This does seem to tie into discussions in the Woke thread in which Ora provided evidence that many from the left see the right as beneath them.

So what is it about left wing philosophy that is behind this sort of thing?
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#2 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:40 am

The title of this thread seriously mis-represents the actual topic of the poll.

It wasn't a poll about open mindedness in general, but about being open to date someone with different political views.

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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#3 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:44 am

There are some spheres in which it is right and proper to be intolerant.

I am intolerant of racism.
I am intolerant of misogyny.
I am intolerant of homophobia and transphobia.
I am intolerant of the needless economic inequality which exists in the UK today.

It is conservatism's tendency towards tolerance of these things which supports a status quo in which inequality and unfairness is perpetuated, to the benefit of those who are already privileged.

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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#4 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:45 am

I suppose that answers your question.

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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#5 Post by Octavious » Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:22 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:40 am
The title of this thread seriously mis-represents the actual topic of the poll.
It wasn't a poll about open mindedness in general, but about being open to date someone with different political views.
You don't believe that how you choose the person you wish to share your life with is the surest indicator of open mindedness and tolerance? We tend to choose partners we can tolerate... at least initially :razz:
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#6 Post by Octavious » Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:40 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:44 am
There are some spheres in which it is right and proper to be intolerant.

I am intolerant of racism.
I am intolerant of misogyny.
I am intolerant of homophobia and transphobia.
I am intolerant of the needless economic inequality which exists in the UK today.

It is conservatism's tendency towards tolerance of these things which supports a status quo in which inequality and unfairness is perpetuated, to the benefit of those who are already privileged.
So what you're saying is that you are intolerant of all but the mildest deviations from your personal beliefs? Which is generally what we observe on this forum, so kudos for staying true to yourself at least. I do think that it's this tendency to be overly zealous that scuppers the left more than anything else
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#7 Post by Randomizer » Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:28 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:22 pm
You don't believe that how you choose the person you wish to share your life with is the surest indicator of open mindedness and tolerance? We tend to choose partners we can tolerate... at least initially :razz:
Over in the States, Trump has proven all he cares about Is looks in a sex partner. With divorce so common, if you don't care about what your partner thinks, then dump and move on to the next.

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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#8 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:02 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:40 pm
So what you're saying is that you are intolerant of all but the mildest deviations from your personal beliefs?
No. I am not saying that at all. That is not what I said and you are mis-characterising it on purpose.

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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#9 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:03 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:22 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 11:40 am
The title of this thread seriously mis-represents the actual topic of the poll.
It wasn't a poll about open mindedness in general, but about being open to date someone with different political views.
You don't believe that how you choose the person you wish to share your life with is the surest indicator of open mindedness and tolerance? We tend to choose partners we can tolerate... at least initially :razz:
Person I might go on a date with =/= person I am sure I want as my life partner.

The survey was about attitudes toward "dating" not, for example, an examination of the political views of people who had been in long-term relationships for some time.

You are making wild claims about this data because it happens to support your worldview.
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#10 Post by Octavious » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:35 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:03 pm
Person I might go on a date with =/= person I am sure I want as my life partner.
That is not what I said and you are mis-characterising it on purpose. ;)
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#11 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:57 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:35 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:03 pm
Person I might go on a date with =/= person I am sure I want as my life partner.
That is not what I said and you are mis-characterising it on purpose. ;)
You said:

"You don't believe that how you choose the person you wish to share your life with is the surest indicator of open mindedness and tolerance?"

Cease your trolling.
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#12 Post by Fluminator » Thu Sep 30, 2021 7:28 pm

This could just mean conservative men are hornier
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#13 Post by Octavious » Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:10 pm

Jamie, old chap... the thing about the dating game is that you don't start off by picking someone you're sure will be your life partner. You start off with someone you have a bit of a spark with, and things develop... or not, as the case may be.
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#14 Post by orathaic » Fri Oct 01, 2021 8:09 am

Octavious wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:35 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 6:03 pm
Person I might go on a date with =/= person I am sure I want as my life partner.
That is not what I said and you are mis-characterising it on purpose. ;)
That does seem to be what you implied.

But based on the above (or not bothering to read the survey) i would interpret it as following: conservative men place a higher priority on having sex with someone than social justice.

Or to put it another way, they are privileged enough that harmful politics (like homophobia, misogyny, racism, etc.) don't effect them, and thus are not high on their priority list.
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#15 Post by Octavious » Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:37 am

Wow... I never really appreciated quite how intense your sense of moral superiority actually is. It is truly fascinating stuff. Depressing, but fascinating regardless
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#16 Post by orathaic » Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:07 am

Octavious wrote:
Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:37 am
Wow... I never really appreciated quite how intense your sense of moral superiority actually is. It is truly fascinating stuff. Depressing, but fascinating regardless
Well you are entitled to misinderstandnthos all you want.

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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#17 Post by Octavious » Sat Oct 02, 2021 8:19 am

Not at all, ora. You have made things perfectly clear
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#18 Post by peterlund » Sat Oct 02, 2021 11:14 pm

Octavious wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:36 am
A light hearted venture into something completely different today :-D.

As a member of the Liberal Democrats I signed up to Lib Dem President Mark Pack's regular polling digest, Polling Unpacked. Today's edition had a look at an interesting little topic, namely
Ooh. I am truely surprised! I who always thought that you were a rampant brexiteer. So wrongly you can get things. Sorry my bad.

Have you been a LibDem member a long time?

If I would vote in the UK, I would also vote LibDems. Surprice, surprice! :-)
Octavious wrote:
Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:36 am
How willing are Brits to date people with opposing politics?
The results are quite remarkable

https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... -312868634
Obviously it would be easier to live longterm with a partner that do not have opposite political views than youself. At least if both have strong views

I tend to agree with the conclusion that politics views of the person you date seems less important for men in the poiitical center or right than it is for men on the left part of the political scale. And I have a theory of why it may be like that too.

Women (at least here) are voting much more leftish than men are. So if you are a leftish guy then there is no problem for your to find a woman with similar poilitcal viewpoints. For the center-right guy this causes a slight problem. You need to be a lot more flexible when it comes to dating. Otherwise you would restrict yourself too much when it comes to the selection of possible partners.

And wouldn't that be booring!
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#19 Post by Octavious » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:31 am

I never loved the EU, but always thought Remain was the better option. This was the primary reason why I joined the Lib Dems, as they seemed to be the only party who were committed to the fight. Not that all Lib Dems were enthusiastic Remainers. The MP Norman Lamb was part of a small but significant number who believed in a soft Brexit, however the direction the party as a whole adopted was clear.

The problem was that there were no good Lib Dem leaders. Nick Clegg was by far the best we've had for years, and he'd shot himself in the foot with that idiot apology for tuition fees that cemented the false idea that he'd somehow betrayed students. So instead we ended up with the idiot Swinson who, despite being a keen Diplomacy player, acted with all the style and substance of a school supply teacher. We ended up with a series of ridiculous policies and her leadership ended when she took her fluke position of power (where the Lib Dems were able to block every action of the Tory minority government) and used it to give Boris the election he desperately needed... and managed to lose her own seat in the process.

Since then the Lib Dems have been utterly irrelevant. The president, Mark Pack, is a good bloke but doesn't seem to have the ability to connect with the public. He was joint leader after Swinson for a while but I doubt anyone in the general public has ever heard of him. As for rejoining the EU, I am not keen. The EU seems to want to go in a very different direction to that the UK would have argued for were it still in, so we're probably better off staying out. The forces in the EU that wanted to get rid of us, and who so effectively outmanoeuvred David Cameron when he asked for Europe's help before the referendum, have won. I have no doubt this will be bad for all of Europe, but there's no longer anything to be done.

Swedish women are largely left wing? That's surprising. I know that in the UK and Germany that women tend to vote for the right over the left, and assumed that was a general thing across Europe.

As for politics and relationships... My mum was always a ban the bomb feminist hippy type. Bare feet, unusual tendency to wear stars, that sort of thing. Dad was not particularly political, but has almost always voted Conservative. It all worked out fine. Ultimately political views aren't that important to people getting on, otherwise every family gathering would be absolute hell. For those who hold very strong views I guess it will be harder. Mrs Oct is a dedicated Liverpool fan, and I've always been an Evertonian. On derby day we... tend not to talk :razz:
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Re: Conservative men most open minded and tolerant

#20 Post by orathaic » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:23 am

Swedish women are largely left wing? That's surprising. I know that in the UK and Germany that women tend to vote for the right over the left, and assumed that was a general thing across Europe.
I can only speak to the US breakdown, because i have seen them more regularly. I know Trump would not have been elected if only women had been allowed to vote. Definitely a Democrat leaning vote amongst US women. Probably goes the same for the Greens, and away from the libertarian party...

Not sure how what the data shows in Ireland... Will have a look.

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