M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Tom Bombadil]

Tom, why do you think it's more likely this was an impulsive bus than an impulsive scumread of the person in a CC who he believes to not be the role they're both claiming?

Because scum are quicker to jump to conclusions given their knowledge of what is the truth (again assuming jasnah was scum). I would expect town to take longer to try to figure out who is telling the truth versus immediately assuming one or the other is being truthful.

His follow up post to immediately ending jasnah was:

"D1 is jasnah/Bunny
D2 is Bunny/jasnah
D3 we resume the game.

Looks like we got our 'boring PR game' after all lawlz

Probably should've just no-killed like I proposed."

which seemed a little like covering his tracks to me.

I'm still balled that you're assuming jasnah was scum. Nearly everyone's reaction was initially thinking she was scum after Bunny's claim and then coming around, or thinking she was scum from the get go, but you initially thought she was scum, started to come around, and then returned to thinking she was scum. Why?

Not great reasons but

1) I like the idea that jasnah and worcej are scum together - but I understand the problems of scumreading both of them because of this.
2) jasnah comes across as zany and someone who would try something stupid as either alignment.
3) The fact that she doubled down afterward for some reason instead of just saying she was trying to protect the miller. If she was town, couldn't she just say so after Bunny claimed? In fact she could have done that as either alignment. Instead we got some weird nonsensical messages that seem way too try hard, in over her skis, that seems to point to scum.

[Durga]

I still don't like bozo and am leading towards eden as scum. Worcej has brought up an interesting point about sabi only wanting to vote him, my guess is sabi is town, but it would be nice to hear more about other people from them.

Why Eden

Mostly a gut feeling for me. I just don't think he's town.

What. You can't have two reads and default to gut feeling. You need to explain them.

[Jamiet99uk]

##vote bozo

also ##vote bozo

##vote bozo

Actually bozo is decent enough for now. At the very least it breaks this truly atrocious tie.

##VOTE bozotheclown

I want it noted that I prefer a few other kills though.

Can all of the above please tell me the reasons for their votes?

Shrug
Tell me who else it could be. I still find it implausible that you apparently scum read Jamiet but haven't pushed him or questioned him at all

I agree!!

[ghug]

Jeez ghug if nobody's on go the fuck to sleep

What's the context for this weird comment?

He probably started to catch up and found me stonedposting alone at midnight.

[worcej]

I blame Eden for putting all these kgray doubts in my mind
The world was such a cleaner place before

@worcej what's your take on Jamiet/Eden?

Finished my Durga read, my take is this:
She had a great start of the day phase and showed her own opinions/stances better. She has an easily to understand stance on Chaqa's claim and her reactions to the Bunny wall are in-line with normal town defenses from her. I also like her critical take on PE (kinda piggy-backing on Flum's) but actually discusses it more in her own words unlike D1 where she was mostly sheeping. She also pokes for more expansion on reads from others and engages with a decent chunk of the game more, showing she's engaged now. This is town Durga and I'm glad to see it now.

Okay, now for Jamie:
I think Jamie's on par with the initial comments to get Lfischl - it's kinda where my head is at too if I didn't have good scum reads. His thoughts on page 176 were good (there are two posts BTW). I didn't like his idea about using the Oracle to confirm a JOAT to confirm a JOAT set of claims, but it isn't glaringly awful and would give us some sort of information to improve our positions. Jamie's attention to ghug is of interest - reading it I see some good points regarding ghug that I had missed and, from meta experience, does point to scum!ghug tendencies. There are some other weird ghug thoughts sprinkled in thereThen the whole him and Eden thing happens... which is interesting from my point of view, I'll address that after I talk about Eden.

My Eden takes:
The n0 cop scan Damo thing is interesting... because he's pointing at the exact signaling method that damo does use when he's a investigation PR - he just states someone's alignment with no real reasoning. So there is enough to believe it at face value. But there are concerns here, as I mentioned in my Durga comments, in that I can see PE is definitely trying to frame that from the point of making himself look clear and less about framing Chaqa as lying. He also kinda walks the concern on Chaqa back with his 'shower thought', which we all know will be forgotten a few phases from now. Generalizing: He is the opposite of Flum/Durga, where he is being doubtful of the cop claim even without a CC. Given the nature of the setup, I'm not going to invalidate the thought process on it's own but there are issues with Eden's implementation. The problem is I don't see a logical progression on Eden's postings to warrant the jump to 'Damo Cop, me clear, get Chaqa' (I am hella paraphrasing with that btw). An obvious counter-claim would be that he was trying to protect Damo, but I would think he could bullshit a better way to signal to damo that he sees what he is doing other than saying he has the opinion for damo that he has for bozo and rdr...

Overall - I don't really like Eden's handling of Chaqa's claim only because he's wishy-washy and gave himself an out.

Eden vs Jamie:
Honestly, both Eden and Jamie were being themselves as I read it. Jamie reacted as Jamie does and Eden was provoking like normal. The gladiate thing is very not helpful in regards to sorting others out, but I'm pretty sure Jamie is town now with that flip out. Eden I am more inclined to say NAI, but this is more lack of my own experience to sort it out.

[ghug]

Because scum are quicker to jump to conclusions given their knowledge of what is the truth (again assuming jasnah was scum). I would expect town to take longer to try to figure out who is telling the truth versus immediately assuming one or the other is being truthful.

His follow up post to immediately ending jasnah was:

"D1 is jasnah/Bunny
D2 is Bunny/jasnah
D3 we resume the game.

Looks like we got our 'boring PR game' after all lawlz

Probably should've just no-killed like I proposed."

which seemed a little like covering his tracks to me.

I'm still balled that you're assuming jasnah was scum. Nearly everyone's reaction was initially thinking she was scum after Bunny's claim and then coming around, or thinking she was scum from the get go, but you initially thought she was scum, started to come around, and then returned to thinking she was scum. Why?

Not great reasons but

1) I like the idea that jasnah and worcej are scum together - but I understand the problems of scumreading both of them because of this.
2) jasnah comes across as zany and someone who would try something stupid as either alignment.
3) The fact that she doubled down afterward for some reason instead of just saying she was trying to protect the miller. If she was town, couldn't she just say so after Bunny claimed? In fact she could have done that as either alignment. Instead we got some weird nonsensical messages that seem way too try hard, in over her skis, that seems to point to scum.

Hmm, I think that message was super townie. She told us she wasn't actually the Miller, but she couldn't be fucked to make it clear enough for everyone to get it.

[Fluminator]

For some context though, here's where I'm at:

Town
BesharamSabi
Bonatogether
BunnyGo
Chaqa
Durga
Fluminator
Vecna
worcej

Contingent Town (town if an assumption I have in my head is true)
ghug
lfischl

Slight Town Lean
Doom427 (more likely scum if Eden is)
Jamiet99uk
kgray
President Eden

Null or Scum
bozotheclown
rdrivera2005
snowy801
TheFlyingBoat
Tom Bombadil

I still think you're probably town, but posting your reads in alphabetical order is very scummy.

[Durga]

##vote rdr

[kgray]

kgray - what do you make of Durga's hard defense of jasnah's claim?

Her comment that jasnah was obviously fake claiming? I guess I didn't originally see jasnah's claim as being obviously fake but I did think it was as soon as Bunny CC'd... And I'm not sure because I also take basically everything jasnah says in these games as trolling. So Durga's reaction isn't so scummy to me.

I also, still, cannot see why jasnah would fakeclaim Miller as scum with zero pressure on her. And the only way for scum!Durga to have slipped that she knows too much about whether or not jasnah was lying is for them to both be scum together. I just think it's unlikely.

[lfischl]

Why Eden

Mostly a gut feeling for me. I just don't think he's town.

What. You can't have two reads and default to gut feeling. You need to explain them.

I don't like how eden is pushing a chaqa fake claim so hard, it makes me think that he's scum and wants all the possible PR's gone.

[rdrivera2005]

The damo kill is still lingering in my mind as well.

We know damo was town. We know that he softed COP fairly blatantly. Then we have a cop claim and retract - but definitely puts into question damos soft.

So either scum

1) Thought he was COP and killed him (this would heavily implicate Chaqa being scum.) I don't know that people familiar with damo would really believe he would soft that hard though were he the actual cop. Upon a reread of damo is seems pretty likely he was just trying to draw the NK.

2) Thought he was trying to draw the NK and killed him anyway because of reads. Damo laid out his reads, but never pushed too hard so I don't see too much here either. The biggest angle would maybe be that he had a few strong towreads (Eden, DOom, BSabi) that they wanted him to die with.

Just seems like a weird kill to me. Maybe slighly less experience scumteam? Though that seems unlikely from a probability standpoint. If scum thought damo was faking the claim they surely would have pegged him as VT and not another PR - so the kill makes no sense to me unless they dont care about trying to hit PRs.

I think this analisys so weak and forced in so many points. Scum could know Chaqa is town (and even believe Chaqa is Cop) but decide to not risk a kill because there is a Doctor. If the Doc saves Chaqa scum loses a kill and town got 2 insta-clear. Better RB him and kill another possible Cop and still have the chance to push for his DK. Chaqa could still be scum, but this simplistic analisys is so off for Tom.

Also, a lot of experienced people like Eden thought Damo was Cop, so why only an less experienced team will kill Damo?

Also, point 2 is just bizarre, when did you see scum kill over town reads? Damos town reads on D1? And when did scum didn´t want to hit PRs, specially in a no flip game?

Wellcome to my probably scum list Tom.

[Vecna]

The damo kill is still lingering in my mind as well.

We know damo was town. We know that he softed COP fairly blatantly. Then we have a cop claim and retract - but definitely puts into question damos soft.
-- snipped--

He most definitely did not.

It still lingers in my mind that you +1'd my post chastising damo about revealing the cop having a N0 inno.

While you did not +1 any of the posts surrounding it, and the post was only +1'd by 2 others.

Feels risky. And your memory of how you +1'd it seemed fuzzy when I asked you about it

[Durga]

I feel as if most of the people engaging are likely town and scum is content to sit back and let us rip each other apart

[Jamiet99uk]

Perhaps, but I'm not the kind of player to take a chance that I might pick someone who isn't a VT. How would I as scum know Flum was VT?

It only makes sense if he was my teammate. As Eden said before, there's very few people I would trust to make a play like that with, and Flum isn't one of them.

If you weren't the cop, and you were wrong about Flum being VT, what would you expect him to do? Immediately correct you and say "No Chaqa I'm actually the JOAT!"

Highly unlikely.

No, but if/when he eventually revealed, he would be able to out me as a fake.

Eventually yes.

Unless scum kill him first so he can't do so.

[worcej]

Dredging up some content:

I just think it's just weird that everyone magically hopped off your wagon when you posted that comment. It's off to me. I'm sorry if you feel like this is an attack on you. I'm just trying to figure out people's thought process.

This is the only substantive reason I can find Sabi having a reason to want to kill me. The thing Sabi finds off has occurred multiple times with other people, yet her 'gut' about me sticks out and has resurfaced again today.

Go read Sabi's D1 and see how much she wants to get people to vote me and how little of anything else Sabi did.

I'm telling you - this is lazy scum play.

You're the only one who doesn't think I'm town. I have been Mia due to oog/mental health reason but go off. Tell me how I'm scum. I tend to trust my gut when it comes to these things. Sorry if it isn't material enough for your taste.

Lazy scum play does not mean I am attacking you for OOG stuff.

My point is your gut for me can be applied to multiple people and you choose to ignore those others. You also got your gut opinion based on thinking I was signaling the scum team when there was no way for any scum player to communicate privately at the time (this was D1), so how would anyone coordinate this unless you assume people are cheating?

And you're still doubling down on this as a reason to kill me, which flies in the face of any understanding.

So yeah, your vote is lazy because it's based on a case that was generated off an impossible condition.

[Jamiet99uk]

The damo kill is still lingering in my mind as well.

We know damo was town. We know that he softed COP fairly blatantly. Then we have a cop claim and retract - but definitely puts into question damos soft.

So either scum

1) Thought he was COP and killed him (this would heavily implicate Chaqa being scum.) I don't know that people familiar with damo would really believe he would soft that hard though were he the actual cop. Upon a reread of damo is seems pretty likely he was just trying to draw the NK.

2) Thought he was trying to draw the NK and killed him anyway because of reads. Damo laid out his reads, but never pushed too hard so I don't see too much here either. The biggest angle would maybe be that he had a few strong towreads (Eden, DOom, BSabi) that they wanted him to die with.

Just seems like a weird kill to me. Maybe slighly less experience scumteam? Though that seems unlikely from a probability standpoint. If scum thought damo was faking the claim they surely would have pegged him as VT and not another PR - so the kill makes no sense to me unless they dont care about trying to hit PRs.

What?

No we don't know that Damo softed cop, far less that he did it "blatantly".

This is a weird and wrong thing to say.

[worcej]

“Both risk discipline” how foreboding.

##vote worcej for now.

On the most surface of surface levels I’m inlcined to think bozo would lurk more than he is if he were scum, but the nature of the setup may moot that point. My impression of bozo is that he plays scared as scum, and he doesn’t seemed all that scared right now. Regardless I’d prefer to not kill him here as I don’t think he is a very good scum player so there is a chance he will actually sort himself even in a limited info game.

I have no impression of snowy so I’ll look into that.

Admittedly, my main read of worcej still is necessitated on jasnah being scum so I dunno.

I’m taking Chaqa’s claim at face value, and am confused by PE being so sure he is lying.

So, to be clear, you think I am scum with jasnah and I was bussing jasnah for credit?

[BunnyGo]

##vote lfischl

I don't just want the first few days to be picking off lurkers, but is there a reason to not get rid of lfischl?

Yes, there is.

Ok. Why do you prefer voting Tom over lfischl?

[Jamiet99uk]

kgray - what do you make of Durga's hard defense of jasnah's claim?

My what

You defended jasnah hard.

I don't think you defended the *claim* to the extent Tom just suggested.

[worcej]

Alright I'm logging off till a hour before EOD. Just need some alone time. Remember to join the worcej wagon. Hope the rest of yalls days are good. OK bye for now.

And no this isn't me being conveniently going away, I really do need alone time.

Do you have any other scumreads besides worcej?

No, but do you have any recent reads yourself fisch?