M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Vecna]

Anything in particular make you scum read Bona?

Early attention with lots of I'M HERE!!! I'M TOWN!!! action. Then slowly fading away...

That actually reminds me of something I let lapse, good reminder

Perhaps you can answer tomorrow?

Bona is playing in the same style as his last towngame, but he seems a lot sharper this time around.

@Vecna you said something similar two games ago when you unceremoniously booted him out [yes, you were 3P etc etc]. Would you say your current read is based off a continuation of your understanding of Bona or are you basing it entirely on the last game on account of you having been entirely wrong?

In which case, what is it about the last game that reminds you of him here?

Heres how I view bona, since his style change (I think this roughly occured the game after he was mafia). He just plays the completely same style as scum and town, and its very hard to differentiate between. As scum, his style did deviate more towards saying stuff that sounded good and being present to garner townreads. Last game he seemed to care a lot less about that and was stating a lot of against-the-grain town spewy things. This game, he's in much better graces of everyone. So, "sharper", more in tune with the general sentiment.

Note that it took me copscanning Bona in that game as scum for people to take note.

What has TFB done, that he should be beneath you?

Like kgroy said, his answers have been too calculated and not genuine. Like a robot. He was also dodging questions and hasn't been that present. Just very not genuine vibes around that one.

What questions have I dodged Sabi? I responded to kgray's question after she pointed it out to me. There's a major difference between not seeing a question and not responding to the question. And what you have said is a massive cherrypick of what she said. She herself said she didn't have a strong scum read on me. And claiming I am not present is pretty laughable given how active I have been on the actual substantive discussions that we've had. If you scroll back to the beginning hours I was one of the loudest voices for early miller calls and for day kills starting D1. I was engaged in other discussions about mechs early as well and also have been very very vocal in picking fights on the jasnah is VT/Bunny is Miller front.

This post from TFB is very interesting. It ticks a lot of the boxes of high operating scum. The defense is flawless, but it instantly recalls all the things that the slot has done this game that can put it in a good light. This could be indication of scum puffing up their "resume" of things they put effort into to look good. Town is generally much more unaware of the good/bad and more inclined to feel that people should just see it, instead of dueling with their "achievements".

Especially of interest, since people mentioned that TFB is a similar'ish person to balki?

[rdrivera2005]

I had another thought.

I haven't played with snowy in years but I remember him being more rude, angry, and "I'm clearly right why aren't you listening to me". Like I feel like he folded on the damo!cop discussion really easily and it feels weird. Can anyone confirm what his last webdip game was like

You are right. Snowy usually think he is wasting his brilliant God like takes with us mere mortals and made it very clear.

[Vecna]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

This is an insane amount of pushback on an easy Day 1 kill that has almost no downside to town.

oh, wow

[rdrivera2005]

This is the exact situation where fractional roleblock is so unfair to town. If there was a mafia roleblocker role instead of fractional then we would have a chance to get them out and then mafia would have to kill Chaqa. As it stands, mafia can always rb him and have us keep doubting whether he's cop (assuming no cc) or scum.

If we got scum rber, and the rbs stopped coming, wouldn't we keep doubting Chaqa anyway?

Yeah, but he'd be getting scans.

Why are we discussing this hypothetical that won't happen anyway. This game is so scum sided it hurts.

[Vecna]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

This is an insane amount of pushback on an easy Day 1 kill that has almost no downside to town.

Some of us like to win
Mind you, I've been faltering myself on account of the fact that this fucking Jasnah individual hasn't spoken in forever, which speaks to guilt

Is it just me or does this appear like a very one-dimensional thought from Snowy?

God I hate that jasnah wagon so much. Too many people on it content to do nothing and not even try to find scum.

This is such a criminal mischaracterization of what those of on the wagon are doing that it has to be deliberate.

Name me one person each that the following people have actually considered and hunted as potentially being scum

worcej
Tom Bombadil
Doom427
lfischl
BunnyGo

Do it, you can't.

All the people making an effort are off that wagon. What does that say to you?

This observation is much better, but it could still be construed as just shading the wagon.

God I hate that jasnah wagon so much. Too many people on it content to do nothing and not even try to find scum.

This is such a criminal mischaracterization of what those of on the wagon are doing that it has to be deliberate.

@PE - thoughts?

This is such a criminal mischaracterization of what those of on the wagon are doing that it has to be deliberate.

What are they doing Chaqa? What are you doing?

Vecna told me I wasn't allowed to post why I was voting for jasnah again

- glad to see youre listening to all my sensible takes

I mean, I think Jamie is at least as apathetic and content as Flum and I didn't like his post letting us know he was waiting for the bus.... I'd probably vote for him.

I don't get scum!worcej vibes but it's difficult for me to read him for personal reasons.

I dislike this push on damo but I don't really see Durga and ghug being scum together here.

Wouldnt you expect jamiet to be content in this situation though? He sees Jasnah doing what she did, and she got wagoned? Seems like the dream come true for everything jamiet wants out of (mafia)life

[Jamiet99uk]

<snip>
- Ghug seems off to me but is an un-CC'ed PR claimant
<snip>

What? Where? Who?

Are you reading the game?

Ghug hard-claimed Doctor.

[Jamiet99uk]

It seems like we're at the point where there needs to be a concerted effort to save jasnah.

I'm open to voting for:
Chaqa
Damo
Doom
Jamie
lfischl
TFB

I have reservations about Durga, kgray, and Eden, but they can wait a day. Damo is almost in this group but I think he's scum.
I'm leaning slightly town on worcej, but could probably be convinced to kill him for memes.

This is an insane amount of pushback on an easy Day 1 kill that has almost no downside to town.

oh, wow

"Wow" at Chaqa's comment or "Wow" at Ghug's desperation to save Jasnah at all costs?

[Jamiet99uk]

For Bunny:

HARD CLAIM, I'M THE DOCTOR

Now it's probably a shitpost because Ghug does shitpost a lot, but all the same, Ghug has hard-claimed Doctor and did not retract it when I mentioned it before.

[BunnyGo]

For Bunny:

HARD CLAIM, I'M THE DOCTOR

Now it's probably a shitpost because Ghug does shitpost a lot, but all the same, Ghug has hard-claimed Doctor and did not retract it when I mentioned it before.

I left you a link titled "For JamieT" earlier. I suggest you read it again.

[Jamiet99uk]

For Bunny:

HARD CLAIM, I'M THE DOCTOR

Now it's probably a shitpost because Ghug does shitpost a lot, but all the same, Ghug has hard-claimed Doctor and did not retract it when I mentioned it before.

I left you a link titled "For JamieT" earlier. I suggest you read it again.

And who would've thought, it figures

[Vecna]

I missed this. Yep, he double down on calling PE obvtown. But I don´t really think this is so unusual to Damo.

He did not double down at all? He immediately relented

He made a post on page 109 calling PE obvtown again. What am I missing now?

Rdrivera is very safe-sailing so far this game. Not impressed. Might be caused by being behind, but this post actually indicates he's reading everything. Wouldve expected him to have a lot more thoughts about the game besides jasnah wagon bad.

Surprising also that only few people made mention of that, while a vocal group was just happy about his contributions there.

Oh I’m sorry am I not allowed to feel comfortable with my vote because it wasn’t decided in the last five minutes?

Actually, yeah. That is really weird
Why would anyone ever be comfortable with any vote?

This is becoming very tedious.

Chaqa has made his logic very clear. As have I.

Really hoping im not wrong, but what im seeing from Jamiet has me firmly believing he is town, doing a decent job of acting civil and in a somewhat constructive manner.

Nothing seems fake so far. He doesnt try to force or exaggerate stuff. He didnt reply in any way worried or annoyed when I did my cliche fake-push

##vote worcej

I’m fine with this.

I understand where Durga is coming from regarding no scum motivation for jasnahs claim, but 1) there is no town motivation either and 2) she hasn’t exactly done on and explained herself.

Still think jasnah is probably scum. Still think worcej knows she is scum hence the snap reaction when bunny cc’d.

Chaqa is whatever - I suppose he falls into the camp of good scum players, so I don’t hate that wagon either.

just quoting this. Some stances from tom at last, but it seems pretty fairy-land positivity that he just found the entire scumteam.

How many different times do I have to tell you I believed Bunny over jasnah?

What have you expected me to do with said list? I'm waiting on D1 and observing how people post. Non-version update is Jasnah is still a lurker and Jamie is a commentator.

Bizarre ire? Again, this is normal me - especially because the cases are shit.

kgray antipathy is irrelevant to anything right now.

I stated the only reason I want to kill BunnyGo is because we cannot be certain he is town. I'll hedge it now: if we don't kill him, near LyLo you'll see a conversation about how 'wait, are we sure Bunny is town?'

Never talks about the game just himself? Fuck off. I've been mostly talking about others numerous times and also the mechanics of this game.

worcej, I'm not an amateur to misconstrue you so. I ISO'd you before making that post, and saw in truth that you spoke of nobody but yourself. Best I can say is you thought Durga was scummy for the way she reacted to Jasnah/Bunny, and that you supported kgray wagon on account of "too good at scum", which is nothing really.

You can tell me or not tell me whatever you want, because for all that this group pretends otherwise nothing is not-alignment-indicative, but what you have told me so far says you're scum.

Why don't you try having a real opinion, for once? Hit me with it.

So my opinion on jasnah is not a real opinion? Nor is the opinion on BG? Nor the opinion on Sabi? Nor the opinion on the no kill? Nor the opinion that Durga is just treading water? Nor the opinions of all the people I grouped?

Fuck off painting me as if I have done nothing. Just because you don’t agree with my opinions or thoughts doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

My vote has been on Jasnah because she needs to go. She made an anti-town play and has fucked off. Most caught scum usually just stfu and stop playing when they are caught. Her play is totally in the realm of options because there are enough ‘I am too smart for my own good’-type people here that would slot her as town.

I know im terrible at reading Worcej, but people were wagoning this? just feels wild to me.

##vote worcej

I’m fine with this.

I understand where Durga is coming from regarding no scum motivation for jasnahs claim, but 1) there is no town motivation either and 2) she hasn’t exactly done on and explained herself.

Still think jasnah is probably scum. Still think worcej knows she is scum hence the snap reaction when bunny cc’d.

Chaqa is whatever - I suppose he falls into the camp of good scum players, so I don’t hate that wagon either.

The whole “good scum player” thing still seems incredibly lazy from you Tom.

Yeah, well then I’ve always been lazy. I’m pretty much a POE player. I think it’s incredibly difficult to find scum D1. That’s why vocal people almost always get killed D1 is because people make up reasons to scum read them. Unless someone does something very scummy or strange (I.e jasnah) I pretty much will never kill a good town player. Similar thought process here

Confrontation. rebuttal. odd. Theory that he found 3 linked scum. Then claims he's a poe player. Doesnt have any real townreads?

odd.

worcej, I'm not an amateur to misconstrue you so. I ISO'd you before making that post, and saw in truth that you spoke of nobody but yourself. Best I can say is you thought Durga was scummy for the way she reacted to Jasnah/Bunny, and that you supported kgray wagon on account of "too good at scum", which is nothing really.

You can tell me or not tell me whatever you want, because for all that this group pretends otherwise nothing is not-alignment-indicative, but what you have told me so far says you're scum.

Why don't you try having a real opinion, for once? Hit me with it.

So my opinion on jasnah is not a real opinion? Nor is the opinion on BG? Nor the opinion on Sabi? Nor the opinion on the no kill? Nor the opinion that Durga is just treading water? Nor the opinions of all the people I grouped?

Fuck off painting me as if I have done nothing. Just because you don’t agree with my opinions or thoughts doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

My vote has been on Jasnah because she needs to go. She made an anti-town play and has fucked off. Most caught scum usually just stfu and stop playing when they are caught. Her play is totally in the realm of options because there are enough ‘I am too smart for my own good’-type people here that would slot her as town.

I think this is town Worcej.

hmmm. noted

Haha I really like doom. You're not getting daykilled doom don't worry.

Mental note; both snowy and durga really like consoling Doom

I missed this. Yep, he double down on calling PE obvtown. But I don´t really think this is so unusual to Damo.

He did not double down at all? He immediately relented

It was the second time I obvtowned PE. When you questioned me I expanded my position I did not relent. I still think PE is highly likely town. This going after me us bizarre.

This post really makes me believe that mafia read way too much into this whole obv-town damo thing. Its not like he doesnt do this in 50% of his games or whatever. Im just hoping this assesment is correct, but naturally any further cop claim will need to face a certain level of scrutiny.

Yeah, it felt like trying to set up a counter wagon and since nobody is explaining why they scumread damo, and I have several times seen (and been a part of) people targeting damo as an early miskill because he does weird damo things, it's suspicious to me.

I explained why I scumread damo. When he's scum, he tries to emulate the quirky damo we all know and love with a bunch of terrible math and mechanical discussion, because he has a hard time replicating his off-the-wall reading process. That's what I see here. And I trust Flum's gut.

Do you trust just his gut or do you trust Flum himself?

After all, I'm trusting rdrivera to be good at this game without necessarily trusting him. Or you know, I would, if he said anything at all *cough*

He said Worcej was town, but that you chose to ignore

yeah well you buncha mooks decided that isn't cool enough

Ok then kill Chaqa with me.

No cause if we get a few more days you'll realize I'm town again and we can continue the hot streak

lol, I keep going back and forth on chaqa like a weakling. wouldnt surprise me at all if he actually turns out to be cop here. Or just...scum.

Ok then kill Chaqa with me.

No cause if we get a few more days you'll realize I'm town again and we can continue the hot streak

So you think ghug is town?

Very sharp of Kgray though. Mightve been a case of info-slip, since Ghug is ghug. edit: doing my homework confirms Chaqa actually had a somewhat believable trajectory to establishing a minor townread on Ghug.

[Vecna]

Hmmmm something about Chaqa doesn't feel scummy to me

Yeah, ok, the fact Durga posts this right at the exact same time im doubting it as well during my catch-up is a major feel-good vibe. Durga 2 - PE 1 (im going to hate myself in a very none-hatefull way if theyre both scum).

PE might be scum too

Huh, flum suspects PE. super-duper interesting.

Dunno what you're seeing but it isn't there.

You got caught faking your read progression on ghug homie sorry to say

bro you literally don't believe that

Ok, this is me instructing future doubtfull Vecna to townread Chaqa for the remainder of the game. Chaqa, you have permission to quote this back in my face when I undoubtedly falter in my faith again or whatever.

^ I cant believe I actually almost typed that without disclaimer. im still doubting this whole PE vs Chaqa thing, since PE knows him way better, and im not sure the whole thing I quoted is actually a good reason or if its just messing with my head

Ah yes Chaqa, let's use the oracle to figure out one is a VT and the other is Miller. Fucking brilliant. Not.

God if this were discord I'd be giving this every heart react, the rocket react, the this react, basically any positive react I can possibly find.

TFB was -really- invested into the jasnah thing. Like, I get it, the VT thing is very likely - but how is there not even the slightest worry that it could be a simple scum gambit? Like, this style of posting accounts for no %points of that possiblity whatsoever. Which almost just feels like a....scary take?

Even despite my previous TFB quote I think he's more likely town, but the level of absolution and dedication is very high here.

Can we still not get any consolidation between worcej and Chaqa voters?

This sure came out of nowhere.....checking trajectory as well.

Yikes, bozo's entire iso is just replying to people. He states he thought Jasnah was competent in previous games and thus wouldnt claim miller as scum. Doesnt talk about the retract. Doesnt talk about any reasons for the other wagons just that he prefers worcej over Chaqa at a point that Worcej is much much higher in the votecount.

Cause for suspicion if Seren was scum.

Yes, you heard that right. I think theres a very reasonable chance she was scum. The way how this entire progression happened, its a mix with people that show genuine town concern over Jasnah just doing what she did, and a few people that were trying to dissuade the wagon with way too black and white views.

[Vecna]

Yuck well anyone wanna do worcej?

youre not even gonna convince me of that shit.

scumteam is like, snowy, bona, maybe PE, maybe Jasnah

damn, was I actually drunk?

This sounds exactly like the deduction my conspiracy-fuelled brain would normally make.

Not feeling great about Bozo either if a lot of other assumptions are correct.

[Vecna]

##vote snowy801

[Vecna]

im actually genuinely surprised that any of the people that played the previous games with snowy arent commenting on how this is basically the diet version of a snowy-light.

No leadership.

No deductions, crossing people off the list. No town and scumhunting. Theres questions. No process leading from answers to interpretations.

I think this slot is scum, and suffering from having an amazing towngame that is impossible to fake & reproduce.

[Doom427]

What posts of Doom's pinged you? I'm interested in that

These ones, among a few others:

Well, the EOD from Damo does convince me he's probably not the cop. So why would Mafia kill? Either they A) earnestly thought they were cop, or B) they thought Damo would work as a false cop once dead, and wants us to think that Damo was cop.

Both are kinda tied in my mind. The only real question is If Chaqa is Cop, and not some other third unknown player, would Mafia buy the redaction? I'm a dumbass, and thought "Hey, maybe? He said he got voted out day 1 a lot, sure" and when he came.out and said he actually was the cop, sorta thought he was lying and was scum. Are Mafia, who know more about game cause they know other scum roles, also likely to be dumbasses like me? Cause if they believe it, it could be A. If they don't believe it, it has to be B.

For some reason the above highlighted sections ping me that Doom might be coached by say Eden to take this approach.

I've literally keep writing out posts, than deleting them cause I realize I have no idea what to say. I guess I want to say Durga's posts have all been really good and helpful for me all of Day 2.

^ This one I Just didn't like.

It's flimsy but makes me second guess things.

Those sections do sound somewhat Eden-esque, but people always cry 'scum coaching' whenever a noob isn't outright bad. I don't think we can rule it out, but I wouldn't bet on it.

That post is a lot of noobs. I concede that new scum are more likely to be like that, but would new scum post that they're having a hard time coming up with things to say? Probably not, in my view.

I have to say it's a little funny to hear that Eden told me to say this when... What I'm implying here is Eden is scum. I get the theory is a little 400 IQ, but it's not THAT 400 IQ. And it is a pretty great strategy to follow if Chaqa is cop. It's a great way to make us unsure of Chaqa's claim.

Also, people keep saying they scum read Eden, and not actually voting for him. Still catching up, but ##VOTE President Eden. Let's actually get this going a little bit? Pls? Only seen memeing votes so far.

And I knew I should have deleted the post saying I delete my posts, ah well. At least now someone isn't town pinging me so I'm not as worried about Mafia NKing me once New Player Grace Period wears off. What I meant by that is I have no idea what's going on, and also don't like posting "Good Posts [blah-blah]" though guess y'all do that by saying "Wow, you're playing a lot better than normal" so it's not as strange as I thought to post compliments :)

[Vecna]

All townreads - something pretty strange needs to happen for me to vote here:
Vecna
BesharamSabi - explained this a few times already. sadly might be replaced
Doom427 - just precious
damo666 - EMC is not playing, scum probably didnt kill themselves to ultra-gambit
BunnyGo - claim


Also all townreads, but have historically been able to fool me easily, so wary persists a little bit:
Jamiet99uk - feels just right
kgray - Feels very right in all reactions. Bit odd she landed back on jas
Durga - The PE thing gave me some pause, but i cannot not trust my gut instincts
Worcej - im not seeing any scum, as explained on numerous occasions. Im usually wrong on this slot, but w/e


Low participation townreads:
Fluminator - he's voting snowy. Also he's not tryharding. He tryharded pretty hard as 3P.
rdrivera2005 - Purely based on the Worcej comment. Even if im wrong about Worcej being scum, rdr wouldve bussed that boi hard.

Null's:
Tom Bombadil
ghug
lfischl
TheFlyingBoat
Bonatogether

Getting worried:
bozotheclown

Scum, even works with a jasnah town slot:
snowy801

Special category which is undecided and weird in my brain:
jasnah - if this slot is indeed scum, and chaqa cop, then the choices for the scum team become a lot less complicated. There probably was at least one bussing due to fear of our PR's, but the heavy handed defense without any worry just...felt so fake from some people.

Chaqa - Wouldnt be the first time I scumread him for all the right reasons and he weasels himself in my good graces. Still ultra-suspicious, but he really did all the right things to change my mind. I dont understand it myself. If he's scum, and we somehow confirm that, durga becomes troublesome, even though she had the exact same response that I had, so maybe thats not even a fair comment. If he continues to retract the cop-claim, the case for a town chaqa becomes a lot less tenable.

President Eden - Talked about enough. Probably conspiracy brain taking over. Could still be town even if he's wrong about Chaqa

[Vecna]

Also, point of discussion for those in doubt;

Compare snowies stance on the gladiate use vs the miller claim, and how he approached anti-town plays then vs now.

He was very fine with punishing it then and was fine with people taking that stance. Now he attacked everyone for daring to vote for the anti-town player, claiming they used it as an excuse to not focus on anything else.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm liking these posts from Vecna.

I could vote for Snowy or Bozo today. (For reasons that I have mentioned already).

[kgray]

##VOTE worcej

can't kill the cop

Also, what is this weird justification?

I feel like TFB has been a little too careful about all his reads/votes this game.

Chaqa had claimed cop just before this. What's weird about TheFlyingBurrito mentioning that?

I just think he’s being very careful to lay out his motivations and it seems like he’s overly cautious about getting caught in an inconsistency. He’s also basing reads on whether or not people change their own reads/votes. I think town is generally more fluid and scum more stiff, and he doesn’t seem very natural to me.