M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Bonatogether]

I've literally keep writing out posts, than deleting them cause I realize I have no idea what to say. I guess I want to say Durga's posts have all been really good and helpful for me all of Day 2.

Post whatever the heck you want, it's good for you.

[kgray]

I don't make it a habit of just outright stating my conclusions at the start of the day, as I believe it restricts the breadth of discussion and draws lines of contention when an open conversation might be preferred.

Can someone who knows snowy confirm if this is true? I have the opposite impression of him, but granted that was from one game I subbed into that lasted like 2 more days and I mostly didn't read....

Because I'm really getting the impression that snowy just wants to seem like he's encouraging conversation but is really reluctant to actually push anything.

[snowy801]

I've literally keep writing out posts, than deleting them cause I realize I have no idea what to say. I guess I want to say Durga's posts have all been really good and helpful for me all of Day 2.

Even if you're not sure what to say, just say it. I always say town has nothing to fear, and thus no reason to not say whatever they feel like.

Also a reason to suspect Jasnah is town, incidentally. Kind of a shitty move, but eh.

[kgray]

I've literally keep writing out posts, than deleting them cause I realize I have no idea what to say. I guess I want to say Durga's posts have all been really good and helpful for me all of Day 2.

Even if you're not sure what to say, just say it. I always say town has nothing to fear, and thus no reason to not say whatever they feel like.

Also a reason to suspect Jasnah is town, incidentally. Kind of a shitty move, but eh.

Wow here's snowy slipping that he knows doom is town

[President Eden]

My understanding is that Eden saw a thing, got really excited when some other people saw it too, and then is having a hard time accepting that the details don't line up with some of damo's comments. Damo would know that he would have to be consistent with his softs in order for them to be picked up if he died before revealing, if he was cop, so while the idea is enticing, I don't think it's especially likely that damo is the cop.

Refresh me on why you're voting for Chaqa.

As town, he wouldn't be useful, even if he is cop, due to being rbed. If he's scum, keeping him around is strictly negative since he won't slip anything. Therefore, not voting him out is either not-good or bad, so we should vote him out.

I actually strongly disagree that he wouldn't be useful as pseudo-VT if he is town. For one, if he is town, tanking the roleblock is definitely meaningful, because it gives our doctor a free hand for the whole game and our JOAT some clean actions. For another, while I haven't been impressed with his performance so far if he is town, he's definitely capable of great town play. I would think that if you don't believe damo is the Cop, then you should have serious pause about voting out Chaqa.

I'll admit that maybe I didn't read your more recent posts closely enough, but I thought you were voting Chaqa because you either (1) thought damo was reasonably likely to be the Cop, or (2) otherwise simply didn't believe Chaqa's story. I am alarmed that your reasoning is this reductive.

He full up said Chaqa could be cop, town, or scum. Why would you say that if you're cop. All PR's are constantly afraid that somehow they've been found out and may be the NK. Damo would somehow put in his EoN post that Chaqa shouldn't be trusted, whether subtle or not. That does not exist. At all. That I've seen anyway.

I'm kinda shocked that you're still pushing this narrative when we've already looked through damo's posts and he doesn't negatively react at all to Chaqa's claim. Please point to me how he "carefully avoided giving any opinion" when it seems like he was just null on Chaqa and wanted to see how it played out... and a reasonable PR would at least be like "hm this claim was kinda weird"

I feel like you would push this narrative no matter how damo read Chaqa and find a way to make damo's words into whatever you wanted them to be. How very lawyer-y of you.

He said this:

Chaqa - could be cop, VT or scum, to be discussed tomorrow should he survive

In the same post he described many people as null:

Bona - difficult to read as ever, I assume not online for EOD as vote stayed on Chaqa, null

Bozo - seems a bit understated, slightly scum side of null

Durga - initially thought she was town, now not quite so sure but still townside of null but only just

lfischl - doing the minimum again, null, townside if pushed

rdr - minimal posting, null

Vecna - hasn't obv'd yet, I'm sure he will, null for timebeing

worcej - not really sure why he was such a big wagon yesterday, null at mo

If he thought Chaqa were null, he would have said null, as he did for seven other people. He didn't, and he specifically said he would be discussing it tomorrow should Chaqa survive.

I don't understand:
(1) why you think reading that to mean he avoided an opinion on Chaqa is unreasonable,
(2) why you are suggesting I am making this argument in bad faith, or
(3) why you are being needlessly aggressive and making things personal.

Okay I'm

Why would he say chaqa is null like the rest of the people he used the word for when Chaqa has claimed a role and obviously has to be sorted into a different category.

I'm not making it personal. Sorry if you felt that way. The lawyer-y thing is a joke because that's what we do as lawyers

I could be reading overmuch into what he said, but I am not intentionally contorting what he said to fit any preconceived agenda. I think he could have described Chaqa as null if that's what he wanted to do. It seemed to me that "cop, VT or scum" is an odd way to describe what amounts to null, and comes from a mindset of someone wanting to avoid committing to any option. That and his emphasis on discussing it today makes me think that he was going to make a move today, if he lived, and that he didn't particularly think it likely he would get killed.

As I've been careful to emphasize, this certainly isn't the only way to read what damo said, and I am fine letting Chaqa be resolved later if we have the Oracle read damo (or I suppose the JOAT can do it, but the Oracle is more reliable, and still known to be alive). But I don't think it's fair to dismiss the idea altogether.

[snowy801]

Speaking of which, I think TFB should be directed to the same advice. I've heard some murmurings about his posts sounding curated, and he seems similarly reticent to bare his mind.

[Durga]

Kgray are you scum reading me? How do you feel about my vote on you

[Durga]

I've literally keep writing out posts, than deleting them cause I realize I have no idea what to say. I guess I want to say Durga's posts have all been really good and helpful for me all of Day 2.

Post whatever the heck you want, it's good for you.

Yeah I literally don't even think I just post

[snowy801]

I've literally keep writing out posts, than deleting them cause I realize I have no idea what to say. I guess I want to say Durga's posts have all been really good and helpful for me all of Day 2.

Post whatever the heck you want, it's good for you.

Yeah I literally don't even think I just post

This is a good general attitude, but can have side effects of not making any god damn sense.

[ghug]

Saw what?

I clarified, and you might already have seen it by the time you read this, but I suspected damo was Cop when, after Durga questioned his "obvious town" read on me, he doubled down on it without giving any real reasoning. I even DMed DemonRHK to tell the god thread lol.

I believe that you thought this. And I believe that you might be town for revealing this (maybe). Or maybe it's the RHK part that makes me feel you're town. I just don't think it's correct given how damo treated Chaqa at night.

Ok this is better Durga

[Fluminator]

I've literally keep writing out posts, than deleting them cause I realize I have no idea what to say. I guess I want to say Durga's posts have all been really good and helpful for me all of Day 2.

Post whatever the heck you want, it's good for you.

Yeah I literally don't even think I just post

You're lucky you're not someone else because that is such an easy set up

[President Eden]

I get the vibe PE is misguided town who just really wants to be the townclear.
Sorry buddy, but that's me this game.

I don't care about being a town clear. I pushed Chaqa pretty hard after ghug and kgray made solid arguments for him being mafia. I thought his Cop claim was bullshit when it happened and still think so. Overnight, when I did my reread, it struck me that damo might be the real Cop, because he was sure I was town from the beginning, before I think I really merited that feeling. I don't see any reason why damo would have been killed over Bunny or Chaqa or some universal town read except if mafia believed him to be a PR.

I don't appreciate you inserting this false narrative of vainglory when I'm earnestly presenting my opinions, being very careful to state how strongly I think they're backed by the evidence, and giving ample credit to other players for their insights where it's due.

There's nothing wrong with seeking vainglory if that's the subconscious motive.

We all want to be good at what we do, but I don't think I even have that, because I cannot remember the last time town would have benefited from me being a mechanical clear vs a lot of other people. I invariably get the near-universal townread and get eliminated by the midgame regardless, and invariably change my mind a lot on my suspects as the game goes on. You could not ask for a worse town clear. Never mind that me being the town clear = our Cop is dead... and if you're the town clear then Chaqa is also clear, which makes it much easier for me to help solve the game. I just want to have fun and win.

[ghug]

I was with you, that's why I tried to shut down Durga questioning damo's obvtown.

You tried to shut it down? When? How? You thought damo was cop and had a scan on PE......? What? Why would you think damo was cop?

I understand PE's reasoning on why he thought damo was cop d1. I cannot see why you would think damo was the cop.

Why would information available to Eden not be to me? I'm not blind.

It has further occurred to me that damo was the one who publicly introduced the knowledge that cop starts with a scan to the thread, and is exactly the type of player to fake crumb cop as he did. In this world, Chaqa is truly cop and mafia are in fact relying us to "do their dirty work" for them as be says.

I'm not entirely convinced, but I'm listening to either side of the arguments. I think the leaders (chaqa/ghug v Eden/kgray) are being unnecessarily belligerent to each other, in a potentially detrimental manner.

Don't lump me with Chaqa. Also I'm not being belligerent at all.

[snowy801]

You tried to shut it down? When? How? You thought damo was cop and had a scan on PE......? What? Why would you think damo was cop?

I understand PE's reasoning on why he thought damo was cop d1. I cannot see why you would think damo was the cop.

Why would information available to Eden not be to me? I'm not blind.

It has further occurred to me that damo was the one who publicly introduced the knowledge that cop starts with a scan to the thread, and is exactly the type of player to fake crumb cop as he did. In this world, Chaqa is truly cop and mafia are in fact relying us to "do their dirty work" for them as be says.

I'm not entirely convinced, but I'm listening to either side of the arguments. I think the leaders (chaqa/ghug v Eden/kgray) are being unnecessarily belligerent to each other, in a potentially detrimental manner.

Don't lump me with Chaqa. Also I'm not being belligerent at all.

Maybe not, but that's the impression I got and regardless you're definitely accusatory to the opposition camp.

You can't deny you were the loudest voice for "why the fuck would we vote out Chaqa" until Durga came, which was my point

[Durga]

Post whatever the heck you want, it's good for you.

Yeah I literally don't even think I just post

You're lucky you're not someone else because that is such an easy set up

SOMEONE will say it but if I thought about it before I posted and got scared I wouldn't be true to myself would I

[kgray]

Kgray are you scum reading me? How do you feel about my vote on you

I'm not sure. I read you as very towny early on, but a lot of that has faded. On one hand I get why you reacted to me not voting for worcej (for obvious reasons) but to just state that you think it makes me autoscum is a lot. But... I don't know why you wouldn't just buddy me if you're scum. And I'm not seeing what I associate with scum!Durga (which is part of why I want Bunny to explain wtf he sees that's similar to that game where you were scum with ghug and bozo and summit). And really, I do think something weird is with you and Flum and I think (at least) one of you is scum.

I feel like your vote on me is better than ghug's, because I don't think ghug actually scumreads me, and it's better than what Flum is doing by constantly shading me but not pushing me. I also don't think it will stay there, but that's sort of irrelevant this early in the phase anyway.

[Doom427]

Well, the EOD from Damo does convince me he's probably not the cop. So why would Mafia kill? Either they A) earnestly thought they were cop, or B) they thought Damo would work as a false cop once dead, and wants us to think that Damo was cop.

Both are kinda tied in my mind. The only real question is If Chaqa is Cop, and not some other third unknown player, would Mafia buy the redaction? I'm a dumbass, and thought "Hey, maybe? He said he got voted out day 1 a lot, sure" and when he came.out and said he actually was the cop, sorta thought he was lying and was scum. Are Mafia, who know more about game cause they know other scum roles, also likely to be dumbasses like me? Cause if they believe it, it could be A. If they don't believe it, it has to be B.

[ghug]

While your points have merit and I'm sifting through damo again myself, you seem awfully invested in making sure nobody thinks damo is cop.

How sure would you say you are that Chaqa is cop?

Agh snowy not you and not this. Are you really trying to shade Flum for trying to figure out whether damo is cop?

I think you have it backwards, Fluminator's behavior was quite clearly that of someone who wanted to shut down any meaningful discussion of the idea. He went and cherrypicked the one post from damo that most sounded contrary to the idea that damo was Cop, and ignored the broader body of work (helpfully reposted by bozo) that made a reasonable case.

No, you've got it backwards. All of the posts need to be consistent with him being cop for him to be cop. If a couple aren't, that means he wasn't the cop.

[President Eden]

##VOTE lfischl

I'll case him later maybe, but every time I remembered him posting in day 1 it was either a question that went nowhere and received no follow-up -- and often had no real prospects of going anywhere from the outset -- or a superficial restatement of the prevailing narrative frame of the moment. Struck me as mafia coasting.

Full disclaimer now, I don't have a clue how to read him from a meta perspective, my only real recollection of past history is incorrectly throwing him out by misunderstanding something that a possible investigative role said. (me? never, ha...........) So if this isn't out of character for him, then this vote isn't the place to be, but until I know that...

[Doom427]

Well, the EOD from Damo does convince me he's probably not the cop. So why would Mafia kill? Either they A) earnestly thought they were cop, or B) they thought Damo would work as a false cop once dead, and wants us to think that Damo was cop.

Both are kinda tied in my mind. The only real question is If Chaqa is Cop, and not some other third unknown player, would Mafia buy the redaction? I'm a dumbass, and thought "Hey, maybe? He said he got voted out day 1 a lot, sure" and when he came.out and said he actually was the cop, sorta thought he was lying and was scum. Are Mafia, who know more about game cause they know other scum roles, also likely to be dumbasses like me? Cause if they believe it, it could be A. If they don't believe it, it has to be B.

I'm obviously assuming here Chaqa isn't a VT, though who even knows at this point. If Chaqa is scum, it's probably an assumption Damo is cop.