M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[Fluminator]

I'm also shocked how much I'm agreeing with bozo's take on things. I feel like I should be concerned about this.

What about his take on why ever the fuck he's voting you

I think that was a joke. It made me laugh at least.

[kgray]

With regards to this game, there are never super good reasons to scumread someone in the early game. You just throw votes and see what sticks and who starts squirming under random pressure. I didn't fully expect you to be the one to constantly question an early day 1 vote either which is another reason you haven't been bleeding town juice.
Damo is failing the squirm test though.
Durga is an example of a townie reaction to pressure.

And this Jasnah/Bunnygo thing is really annoying because it's hard to put real pressure on anyone outside of those two right now.

Like what is this argument about throwing random votes to see what sticks? The only votes he's made are for himself, and the only scumread he gave was damo until I voted for him.

I have no idea why he thinks I bleed town juice when I'm town if he thinks me questioning his damo read when mine was the opposite isn't me being town.

[BunnyGo]

It's two-fold:

1) I don't like having teammates make life hard for the team. This game is hard enough.

2) I *do* think Jasnah is capable of this play as scum.

3) I think that resolving this sooner is better than later.

I just feel like you're saying she's town but she should die anyway because she did something you didn't like.

While point 1 is important, point 2 and 3 are more critical. 2 says there's a good chance Jasnah is a baddie, and 3 says we have to deal with a player in the game who has a good chance of being a baddie. While I get that people are saying they think this is a town play, the fact remains that day 2 or 3 when we could talk about night time plays, instead Mafia could push the conversation back to Miller. (and it remains a solid thing for a townie to push for, if they haven't come up with any other solid scum reads)

Doom says it for me. Differently phrased than I would, but accurately.

[Fluminator]

Why does Flum look better?

He's giving substantive serious answers. Do you actually think he's scummy? Did you answer his thing about you always voting him as scum

I think he's giving serious answers because he's an actual wagon but he's still not doing what I expected him to do as town, so yeah I think it's scummy.

I dislike how he's omgusing me. And I don't really think he believes I push him like this when I'm scum because the first time I helped miskill him I just broke a tie and chose him without actually 'scumreading' him, and the second it was after he was already scumreading me.

kgary how come I haven't seen the town juice from you yet.

I've been watching you awhile now.

[kgray]

Seriously Durga, what happened to being okay with the Flum wagon until he gives more reads? The only new read he's given since then has been a scumread of me.

[Chaqa]

My issue is that as this is a no-flip game, we will never know if Bunny is Miller if/when he dies. Likewise for jasnah. If we flip jasnah, at some point the JOAT can autopsy or the Oracle can reveal, and then we will get two people's roles/alignments for one, basically.

If jasnah comes up as Miller -> Bunny is scum
If jasnah comes up as scum -> Bunny is Miller
If jasnah comes up as town -> Bunny is Miller

See the value?

Additionally, two hardclaims cannot exist independently. This is a big issue for me and I'm surprised others aren't making a big deal out of it. Egos, mostly.

It's possible jasnah is town doing this, but I can't see any reason for town!jasnah to fake hardclaim Miller and I can't see any reason for scum!Bunny or nonMillerTown!Bunnyt to counterclaim.

This means Bunny must be Miller and jasnah is probably scum, to me at least.

Agreeing to this, and also saying we right now have a problem with cop scans too with leaving Jasnah alive.
Cop scans Jasnah->Evil->Miller OR Goon
Cop Scans Jasnah->Good->Godfather OR Vanilla

Leaving open on if anyone should scan and then claim day 2 (I think no, but who knows?).

Cop and JOAT should probably not waste a scan on those two as both are claiming Miller.

[Doom427]

Cop and JOAT should probably not waste a scan on those two as both are claiming Miller.

Oh, hard agree there-I more meant that no cop scan there will ever be helpful at this point, so we can get no information from a living Jasnah or Bunnygo. A dead one of either, though, Could tell us something depending on PR plays.

[rdrivera2005]

Oh, that's a good idea. That lets the Oracle lock onto someone else.

I support this plan.

This is not a good idea. We waste two days killing two players that are likely town.

I am pretty sure Bunny is the Miller. I think fake claiming as town is usually a bad choice (unless you are TomB), but I can't see a reason for scum Jasnah claim that way (the powerwolf theory isn't likely).

This said, I am skipping half of the posts so my reads suck big time at this point.

The plan is not to kill them both.

The plan is to kill jasnah, the 90%+ likely fake one, and then let the JOAT autopsy her to find out what she was. Bunny would not die in this case.

The post you were answering was Jamiet asking Bunny if he objects being killed tomorrow if the JOAT didn´t agree to autopsy Jasnah. And we can´t know if Joat will agree or not as he won´t claim this early, so in fact Jamiet was advocating for a Bunny kill next day, which is a bad idea.

[Durga]

Seriously Durga, what happened to being okay with the Flum wagon until he gives more reads? The only new read he's given since then has been a scumread of me.

? Do I seem not okay to you?

[lfischl]

My issue is that as this is a no-flip game, we will never know if Bunny is Miller if/when he dies. Likewise for jasnah. If we flip jasnah, at some point the JOAT can autopsy or the Oracle can reveal, and then we will get two people's roles/alignments for one, basically.

If jasnah comes up as Miller -> Bunny is scum
If jasnah comes up as scum -> Bunny is Miller
If jasnah comes up as town -> Bunny is Miller

See the value?

Additionally, two hardclaims cannot exist independently. This is a big issue for me and I'm surprised others aren't making a big deal out of it. Egos, mostly.

It's possible jasnah is town doing this, but I can't see any reason for town!jasnah to fake hardclaim Miller and I can't see any reason for scum!Bunny or nonMillerTown!Bunnyt to counterclaim.

This means Bunny must be Miller and jasnah is probably scum, to me at least.

Agreeing to this, and also saying we right now have a problem with cop scans too with leaving Jasnah alive.
Cop scans Jasnah->Evil->Miller OR Goon
Cop Scans Jasnah->Good->Godfather OR Vanilla

Leaving open on if anyone should scan and then claim day 2 (I think no, but who knows?).

If we kill one of jasnah or bunny we should scan the death.

[kgray]

Seriously Durga, what happened to being okay with the Flum wagon until he gives more reads? The only new read he's given since then has been a scumread of me.

? Do I seem not okay to you?

You said he looks better after indicating you wanted him to post more reads. He's given one more read (which he's conveniently pointed out isn't that new).

I just want to know why you think he looks better when he hasn't done the thing you were hoping he'd do under pressure.

[lfischl]

My issue is that as this is a no-flip game, we will never know if Bunny is Miller if/when he dies. Likewise for jasnah. If we flip jasnah, at some point the JOAT can autopsy or the Oracle can reveal, and then we will get two people's roles/alignments for one, basically.

If jasnah comes up as Miller -> Bunny is scum
If jasnah comes up as scum -> Bunny is Miller
If jasnah comes up as town -> Bunny is Miller

See the value?

Additionally, two hardclaims cannot exist independently. This is a big issue for me and I'm surprised others aren't making a big deal out of it. Egos, mostly.

It's possible jasnah is town doing this, but I can't see any reason for town!jasnah to fake hardclaim Miller and I can't see any reason for scum!Bunny or nonMillerTown!Bunnyt to counterclaim.

This means Bunny must be Miller and jasnah is probably scum, to me at least.

Agreeing to this, and also saying we right now have a problem with cop scans too with leaving Jasnah alive.
Cop scans Jasnah->Evil->Miller OR Goon
Cop Scans Jasnah->Good->Godfather OR Vanilla

Leaving open on if anyone should scan and then claim day 2 (I think no, but who knows?).

If we kill one of jasnah or bunny we should scan the death.

i'd say we don't claim until D3 or EON2

[rdrivera2005]

Oh come on, read her posts this is getting boring.

She hardclaimed miller. She can't back out of that and you can't try to spin it in any way. Her vague quasi-retraction doesn't mean shit to me.

I've begun to observe that no one really respects hard claims anymore.

I respect a hardclaim when it´s done under pressure or with other relevant information (like who you targetted or something like that). But a Miller hard claim on middle of D1 isn´t exactly a claim that should be taken that seriously.

[Durga]

Seriously Durga, what happened to being okay with the Flum wagon until he gives more reads? The only new read he's given since then has been a scumread of me.

? Do I seem not okay to you?

You said he looks better after indicating you wanted him to post more reads. He's given one more read (which he's conveniently pointed out isn't that new).

I just want to know why you think he looks better when he hasn't done the thing you were hoping he'd do under pressure.

He's answering seriously instead of trolling everyone into voting him, he does look better. Not a really high bar I guess

[kgray]

? Do I seem not okay to you?

You said he looks better after indicating you wanted him to post more reads. He's given one more read (which he's conveniently pointed out isn't that new).

I just want to know why you think he looks better when he hasn't done the thing you were hoping he'd do under pressure.

He's answering seriously instead of trolling everyone into voting him, he does look better. Not a really high bar I guess

You know him better than I do. Do you think my meta on him is wrong?

[rdrivera2005]

@Bunny you are voting for jasnah because you feel like your role requires you too?

It's two-fold:

1) I don't like having teammates make life hard for the team. This game is hard enough.

2) I *do* think Jasnah is capable of this play as scum.

3) I think that resolving this sooner is better than later.

I just feel like you're saying she's town but she should die anyway because she did something you didn't like.

Considering Jasnah said more or less the same thing about Bunny this isn´t so unexpected, is it?

[Durga]

You said he looks better after indicating you wanted him to post more reads. He's given one more read (which he's conveniently pointed out isn't that new).

I just want to know why you think he looks better when he hasn't done the thing you were hoping he'd do under pressure.

He's answering seriously instead of trolling everyone into voting him, he does look better. Not a really high bar I guess

You know him better than I do. Do you think my meta on him is wrong?

Which meta?

[Durga]

I'm liking rdr as he's posting

[BesharamSabi]

At this point jasnah lack of effort in this game is kinda disappointing. At this point I am leaning towards voting for her solely so we could all move on.

[kgray]

He's answering seriously instead of trolling everyone into voting him, he does look better. Not a really high bar I guess

You know him better than I do. Do you think my meta on him is wrong?

Which meta?

That normally as town he freely calls out people he thinks are scummy D1 and generally gives a lot more reads than a random unexplained tunnel on damo and whatever this omgus is on me.