M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[kgray]

That game you and celaph were clearly scumbuddies based on interactions. This is different because I haven't seen any overly scummy interactions between you and anyone else, and I scumread you on the basis of a variety of scumpings and denying that we should be more careful of the good scumplayers. ('I'm denying it's relevance')

You're not very deep if two clowns are voting for you.

Well Eden is certainly a clown, that's for sure. And I don't know what world you think I'd be a proponent of a nonsensical strategy that targets me. It's objectively bad for town.

town!kgray world

Why is it nonsensisical?

Why is it bad if it targets you?

Why is it 'objectively' bad for town?

Because I'm town, dummy

[Bonatogether]

Well Eden is certainly a clown, that's for sure. And I don't know what world you think I'd be a proponent of a nonsensical strategy that targets me. It's objectively bad for town.

town!kgray world

Why is it nonsensisical?

Why is it bad if it targets you?

Why is it 'objectively' bad for town?

Because I'm town, dummy

Bullshit argument.

Any given town member is expendable.

Your statement does not address any of my questions, moreover.

[snowy801]

This is where I'd be doing a reread but holy shit there are 80 pages

[BesharamSabi]

It is not completely clear to me what your perspective is. Are you saying that a true miller ought to have taken steps to ascertain whether their direct counterclaim is being serious about their claim, and that Bunny failed to do so is suspicious? In the sense that the true miller ought to have been more cautious and reluctant to immediately reveal their role?

Yes (I have been drinking but this makes sense to me).

What’s your drink? I have to get up in 6 hours or I’d be too.

I did consider waiting for jasnah to come back. I couldn’t grill her without claiming. And I couldn’t wait too long without doing an anti-town action myself. So that whole thought process influenced my post about why I have to do my best even when my teammates screw up.

I have to be up in 7 hours, woo. Blood orange san pellegrino and gin, my go to.

Fair explanation. Sorry I may or may not have been wrong in my assessment of you

[kgray]

town!kgray world

Why is it nonsensisical?

Why is it bad if it targets you?

Why is it 'objectively' bad for town?

Because I'm town, dummy

Bullshit argument.

Any given town member is expendable.

Your statement does not address any of my questions, moreover.

Alright bona, I don't have the energy for this.

[BunnyGo]

gtfo what slip

The potential slip by her immediate reaction of jasnah’s claim.

It’s entirely plausible she could fuck up and say with so much certainty that jasnah was fake claiming.

How would scum!Durga immediately know jasnah was fake claiming?

The only scenario where that is possible is that they're teammates. And in that case, in what world does Durga immediately react like that in a way that doesn't even get her towncread for bussing jasnah?

She would know that I wasn't scum and counter-claiming; which I'd never do as VT.

[worcej]

The votes on me are awful

[Bonatogether]

Because I'm town, dummy

Bullshit argument.

Any given town member is expendable.

Your statement does not address any of my questions, moreover.

Alright bona, I don't have the energy for this.

Perhaps you can answer tomorrow?

[kgray]

I want to know why theflyingboat decided to encourage bona starting my wagon when he's got scumreads and I'm not one of them. And I don't want to hear anything about it being because I'm 'strong scum' because he said that in response to an actual case bona was making on me and not to worcej and damo's earlier nonsense.

My response to bona's post in question:

"This is actually interesting I am still leaning Flum, but that kill strong scum in an NR game does seem somewhat reasonable to me as well."

Literally I never touched the substance of the case against you AT ALL. The only part of it I said seemed reasonable was the KILL STRONG SCUM part. You can say you don't want to hear it all you want, but that's literally the only part of the post I even touched. This attempt to deflect onto me is incredibly weird though. You'll note despite me "encouraging" a wagon on you that my vote is on worcej who I mentioned having a negative read on and I explicitly mentioned Flum as someone I wanted targeted more.

Yes, I realize you never touched the substance of the case against me, and yet your post encouraged bona to continue voting me. That's what I initially found sus. Now it's also because you avoided the question twice.

I'm not deflecting anything. What do you find weird?

Having a paper trail is something scum worry about a lot, so you focusing on that doesn't really make me townread you.

[Doom427]

The most sensible read I have on it is to accelerate the timeline on the miller claim. Most other lines of thought involve jasnah going to IQ 3000 land with a zany strat and a ton of flourish which just doesn't seem to be a good scum strat. Whether you think she's a good or bad town is up for debate, but I just can't imagine a world in which she is mafia and trying to win while playing like this.

(As an early aside, I am also not super convinced by arguments that Bunny HAS to be genuine. Placing breadcrumbs makes sense for both Genuine, and a planend non-Genuine Mafia)

I think it's just 101 that if two players claim a role, one of them is probably scum. Yeah, going 1 for 1 is bad for scum, sure. But it's also really bad for town to give us a good at killing Miller and a VT. Accelerating the timeline for a miller claim makes no sense. If someone wanted the Miller to claim, really really badly, they should just say the Miller should claim. If we were in night 1 or day 2, and Miller still hadn't, sure, fakeclaim to force it, maybe. But it was day 1.

[kgray]

Bullshit argument.

Any given town member is expendable.

Your statement does not address any of my questions, moreover.

Alright bona, I don't have the energy for this.

Perhaps you can answer tomorrow?

I mean I literally don't know what you want me to say. You keep repeating the same questions back at me, you're not interested in my answers. You just want me to say 'yeah kill me, i'm just a townie and happy to take one for the team' but I'm literally never going to do that in any scenario.

It's nonsensical because it's just picking from a pool of people based on perceived skill level which is more subjective even than reads because of people's egos.

It's bad if it targets me because I'm town and people should be able to figure that out so wasting a kill on me is bad.

It's objectively bad in general no matter who the target is because it's basing kills on something other than reads and this game, which is easy for scum to hide behind and not the way the game should be played.

If you wanna scumread me for whatever else, fine. But keep this garbage out of your argument because my response here is just that I think this is dumb and that's incredibly NAI.

[kgray]

The votes on me are awful

Yeah, actually.

[BunnyGo]

The only reason I’m not pushing to 50/50 jasnah and Bunny is the Oracle.

Failing those two… maybe no kill? Xd

##Vote worcej

The oracle play to confirm the other of us is only guaranteed to work if jasnah or I die today...

[kgray]

The potential slip by her immediate reaction of jasnah’s claim.

It’s entirely plausible she could fuck up and say with so much certainty that jasnah was fake claiming.

How would scum!Durga immediately know jasnah was fake claiming?

The only scenario where that is possible is that they're teammates. And in that case, in what world does Durga immediately react like that in a way that doesn't even get her towncread for bussing jasnah?

She would know that I wasn't scum and counter-claiming; which I'd never do as VT.

Sorry? I don't understand what that has to do with why scum!Durga would immediately call out jasnah as fake claiming.

[President Eden]

Ghug, can you elaborate on your “what?”

I thought I was clear? I would want to vote out both of the hard claimers if not for the fact there is an Oracle. It makes it easier to solve without doing the 50/50

No kidding genius

We (include me in that category now that I've noticed) are confused why you voted worcej.

[Chaqa]

The only reason I’m not pushing to 50/50 jasnah and Bunny is the Oracle.

Failing those two… maybe no kill? Xd

##Vote worcej

The oracle play to confirm the other of us is only guaranteed to work if jasnah or I die today...

The Oracle can’t reveal anyone today, they have to enter their order at night first. So we should hold one of you til tomorrow

[BunnyGo]

Okay Eden, here's a list of the reasons I found that you gave this evening that caused you to scumread Durga and my reaction to them:

1) She's had too many "I know what's going on" posts: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 04#p257604
- You give no indication of what those posts are besides the one about jasnah, and besides, I fail to see why anybody thinks scum would immediately call out a PR as fake claiming for any reason besides to CC them.

2) She's more reactive than normal: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 64#p257664
- I don't think she's more reactive than normal, and even if she were I'd think that makes her more towny. She hides as scum.

You then "clarified" and stated the following: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 06#p257806 consisting of two arguments

3) Durga's reaction indicated to you that Durga knows jasnah is both town and fake claiming.
- What possible way could this be true besides the one damo would be talking about?

4) You suggest Durga believed both jasnah and Bunny to be town very quickly, leading you to conclude she must know they're both town because she's mafia.
- I fail to see where Durga immediately believed Bunny was town, as evidenced by *you* nudging her to move her vote.

When I commented on this, you retracted (or flip-flopped, as one might say) here: http://webdiplomacy.net/contrib/phpBB3/ ... 38#p257838 which leads me to

5) You suggest that she still scumread Bunny because she's mafia who is incapable of evolving her reads
- This isn't only blatantly a flip-flop, it's also literally a forced read because you say 'either way there's reason to think she's mafia' and thereby you're forcing your scumread of her on every scenario.

So if you're town, please stop whining about me having 'bad faith' questions when you're clearly doing exactly what I'm saying you're doing.

This is a lot of good digging. What should I conclude you think:

A) Durga is town and needs you defending her?
B) eden is scummy for his bad arguments?
C) you don’t really have reads yet on them, but you’re mad at Eden?
Something else?

Bunny... I'm sorry if this was a genuine comment but this is so patronizing I can hardly answer it seriously.

I do think Durga is town and I don't think she needs me to defend her. I think Eden's push on her scummy, yeah, but I don't know if he's scum. I'm not mad at Eden.

What do you think about it all?

Not patronizing, kgray. But you've seemed not your usual clear and understandable self. Mostly you seem agitated and on edge. I'm literally trying to understand where you're coming from and what's causing it. I don't think it's scum indicative yet, because you don't do this as scum (except as theatre). But you also don't do it as town. At least not when I was last here.

I think Eden is one of my stronger town reads. I think his arguments make a lot more sense and are fairly clearly explained and reasoned. I think they show no indication of knowing the answer, nor leading himself to find the answer he wants.

That said, I'm not moving my vote today. Not even if jasnah hardclaims PR. So I have time to reconsider everything and just chill.

[Chaqa]

Oh dude I’m dumb.

I forgot it was a death Oracle.

[ghug]

The only reason I’m not pushing to 50/50 jasnah and Bunny is the Oracle.

Failing those two… maybe no kill? Xd

##Vote worcej

What

?

I don't understand what this means.

[ghug]

Definitely don't feel weird being here, especially not based on being bad at this game. We're literally all bad at this game lmao

I do feel weird lol I have just acted like my usual self and I'm getting sussed out.

Only by theflyingboat who is probably scum anyway since he can't answer a simple question.

Does that mean you think Durga's scum too?