Mini Mafia 1018 - Race with the Devil [hidden]

[ghug]

You're probably 1/4.

I can´t see Maniac as scum here. It looks really like the game he was town and we lost in kilo for Ghug.
Cellaph maybe, but the D1 vote and the RB don´t point to this.

Why I am not in this list? I am starting to think that Bona is scum here.

I townread celaph, but the D1 vote is in no way a vote in his favor.

Didn't Maniac do some crazy shit when I beat you guys at KILO? There's no crazy shit this game.

[rdrivera2005]

I can´t see Maniac as scum here. It looks really like the game he was town and we lost in kilo for Ghug.
Cellaph maybe, but the D1 vote and the RB don´t point to this.

Why I am not in this list? I am starting to think that Bona is scum here.

I townread celaph, but the D1 vote is in no way a vote in his favor.

Didn't Maniac do some crazy shit when I beat you guys at KILO? There's no crazy shit this game.

I remember he identified you way before then me.

[ghug]

I can´t see Maniac as scum here. It looks really like the game he was town and we lost in kilo for Ghug.
Cellaph maybe, but the D1 vote and the RB don´t point to this.

Why I am not in this list? I am starting to think that Bona is scum here.

I townread celaph, but the D1 vote is in no way a vote in his favor.

Didn't Maniac do some crazy shit when I beat you guys at KILO? There's no crazy shit this game.

I remember he identified you way before then me.

Sure, but that's not a reason to townread him this game.

[Bonatogether]

You're probably 1/4.

I can´t see Maniac as scum here. It looks really like the game he was town and we lost in kilo for Ghug.
Cellaph maybe, but the D1 vote and the RB don´t point to this.

Why I am not in this list? I am starting to think that Bona is scum here.

because i townread you dummy

[celaph]

Sorry, been a busy last day and a half. Catching up now.

[celaph]

i want to call this a scumteam right here

There's no way Vecna/Chaqa are scum together. Scum Vecna doesn't assume his teammate's blow-up and subsequent removal came off as so townie that he'd call people scummy for still scumreading him without actually reading the day.

also, that blowup was 100% town jamiet

That in itself is pretty damning Ghug

The amount of scrutiny on jamiet before this post is actually a lot less than I had anticipated when seeing it before.

hmm

i disagree that scum vecna doesn't do that

Two questions: why don't you think that scum Vecna would do that? And more importantly, why do you think it's worth arguing about what scum Vecna would or would not do right after he was flipped as town?

It doesn't seem like you're using this opportunity to say anything about ghug or the state of the game, just that you want to be contrarian.

[celaph]

My theory is that scum wouldn't be moving their votes around a bunch.

This feels like an incredibly simplistic theory in that it ignores the differences in player behavior. For example, I suspect that someone like ghug has late vote movement far more often than the average player.

I don't think I've played as much with scum Kak as many of you all. Does he have this tendency to show great uncertainty about his actions as scum? I tend to associate it with towny behavior, but maby it's just Kak.

[celaph]

he voted Vecna, was around for EoD, and again, VOTED for Vecna.

Oh, I can do this too.

Chaqa voted for Vecna, was around EoD, voted rd, then voted worcej, and again, VOTED for Vecna, VOTED for worcej.

How much says that about you?

I feel like you're either misunderstanding Chaqa's point or misconstruing it. My gut is the former, but that is biased by my existing read of you.

[celaph]

I was RB'd again.

we are no longer buddies

odds are scum are rbing their kills and then rbing you for towncred

Why would scum be rbing their kills with doc dead?

I think this enforces my townread on Bona unless he's deliberately acting stupid. No one who has thought through the chain of logic comes out thinking that scum will be rbing their kills rn.

[celaph]

Oh, I can do this too.

Chaqa voted for Vecna, was around EoD, voted rd, then voted worcej, and again, VOTED for Vecna, VOTED for worcej.

How much says that about you?

No, you miss what I'm saying.

You were voting Vecna, were around for EoD and could have moved your vote if you wanted, but stayed voting Vecna. But then you claim you town read him at EoN.

Why the unexplained change of heart? Why such a weak vote?

You're scum

flail more, will you? You didn't even give a thing about leaving reads because you knew you would survive, isn't it so?

[celaph]

we are no longer buddies

odds are scum are rbing their kills and then rbing you for towncred

Why would scum RB their kill in this situation?

cause there's a cop out there? unless they are reasonably certain that celaph is cop, there's no value to roleblocking him repeatedly, but if they know he's cop, why not kill him????

With a cop out there, they should obviously rb and kill differently people. My guess is that I'm getting rb'd because of some combination of cop read + not wanting to townclear someone else.

[celaph]

I scumread celaph, ghug, and chaqa

i scumlean maniac

outside chance of rdr

Very much disagree on Maniac. Overall, what do you make of the fact that you've put twice the number of mafia in your scum pile?

[celaph]

I don’t think I fully realized that lfischl was due to be replaced or modkilled when he died. This really reinforces my belief scum could have bussed

Makes me suspicious of Maniac mostly

What do you make of the way that Maniac pushed back against the early formation of the ghug wagon D2? It's certainly some of the bolder play by him regardless of ghug's alignment and given Maniac's past propensity to bus I can only really imagine defending ghug like that if ghug is GF.

[celaph]

Cop have only one scan until now, an inno I presume, so don't see any reason for him to crumb tonight.

Just like townread that person. Doesn't have to be super overt.

I'd hope a cop with a guilty scan would have also kept that quiet.

what are the reasons for cop with a guilty keeping quiet?
they cant get us any more information and we need to kill scum soon

The obvious case is if they can get the guilty killed without outing themselves then we have a late game townclear.

[ghug]

I don’t think I fully realized that lfischl was due to be replaced or modkilled when he died. This really reinforces my belief scum could have bussed

Makes me suspicious of Maniac mostly

What do you make of the way that Maniac pushed back against the early formation of the ghug wagon D2? It's certainly some of the bolder play by him regardless of ghug's alignment and given Maniac's past propensity to bus I can only really imagine defending ghug like that if ghug is GF.

Or he was standing up against a shitty town wagon in an attempt to look useful.

[celaph]

Oh wow, DL8 is browsing. Hi man!! Come back!

I'm thinking atm Bob is the most likely busser. I think he voted for his teammate, went to sleep expecting nothing bad to happen, and then came back to find Lfischl flipped.

The only Bob pairing I can see work is Bob/Rdr for the way he started the worcej wagon on D2. On looking back at it I kinda get the vibes that he needed a reason to create a and take pressure off someone with the only candidate being Rdr. Also worth noting that Rdr advocated giving Bob townpoints for starting the wagon regardless of Worcej's alignment.

[celaph]

Bob, you're being all too reasonable. I might need to unvote you lol

I feel like Maniac, Kak, and RDR should all be able to read through this and come to the same conclusions you are, so hopefully we can stop with this nonsense of voting me.

yeah im really not sold on you being scum here
i dont think it works except as some kind of crazy suicide play which i do not expect
i honestly half expect someone to come along later and tear this completely to shreds and put up a good case for you but really not feeling it right now

@Bob, who do you suspect is scum in this game right now?

[celaph]

With a godfather in play the value of the innocent scan is only 50% whereas the cop will then 100% die tonight.

Cop getting one more scan in tonight and then I think they have to claim as we are at kill correct or lose. A guilty would be great but three innocent scans really reduce our pool for next daykill.

Obv we could have less than 3 innocent scans depending on if scanned people have been killed and/or cop has been roleblocked.

Okay okay, bear with me here.

We have 8 people left with a 6-2 spread.

Miskill puts us to 4-2.

What if we decide to vote no-kill today? This doesn't lose us a day, simply delays the decision, but tomorrow we would be at 5-2 with two added benefits:

1. There's no chance we accidentally wagon and reveal the cop today.
2. The cop has an additional night to scan someone

We could all even say that, barring a guilty scan, we would vote for XYZ, which would give the cop maximum knowledge on who to scan.

Say everyone is willing to make me one of the two flips we have. Fine, then, the Cop shouldn't scan me because I'm being flipped regardless, and therefore it would be a waste of a scan.

I really like this idea.

##Vote no-kill

I feel like you've some how managed to combine a decent idea with an absolutely terrible one. The vote no kill today isn't a bad idea. There are obviously pros and cons to it, but I think that overall 1 more day is a net positive for town.

Creating a list of people we agree to kill if we don't have a guilty scan is a terrible idea with how easily it lets mafia plan kills around our announced DKs. It also gives them the easiest defense for not voting someone if the tides change later tomorrow.

Lastly, it bothers me how you seem to have worked yourself to a position where you are drawing attention to the issue of who the cop should scan and whether they should scan you. They should scan based off a mixture of their reads and their existing scans. Obviously, as town we tend to not want to be scanned as it doesn't help us (especially with GF still out). That said, the people with the two most vested interested in being scanned are both scum.

[ghug]

Oh wow, DL8 is browsing. Hi man!! Come back!

I'm thinking atm Bob is the most likely busser. I think he voted for his teammate, went to sleep expecting nothing bad to happen, and then came back to find Lfischl flipped.

The only Bob pairing I can see work is Bob/Rdr for the way he started the worcej wagon on D2. On looking back at it I kinda get the vibes that he needed a reason to create a and take pressure off someone with the only candidate being Rdr. Also worth noting that Rdr advocated giving Bob townpoints for starting the wagon regardless of Worcej's alignment.

Does Rd really say that about a teammate starting a wagon to save him?

[celaph]

@rdr, the exchange between you and ghug reminds me of the game I subbed into recently where the two of you were going at each other and it ended up being TvT letting the scum get away with it. What makes you think that this time is different?