M69: Trapped in the Chipotle R&D Lab [HIDDEN]

[Hamilton Brian]

##Unvote

[Vecna]

How strong could the 3P now be?

They could’ve started with an item they need +1 (1) , they could’ve been on Bona kill and collected his item if it was on the list +1 (2) (Has anyone claimed receiving Bona’s item, or do they want to now?) Could they have stolen from Celaph before scum NK him? Yes but unlikely +0 (2), They could have been on Kakarroto wagon +1 (3) They could’ve stole an item N2 but nothing reported and no one died +0 (3) they could’ve shot Ghug but even if he had a 3P item it would mean 3P had the gun so still +0 (3), they allegedly stole an item n3 (Cheese) +1 (4). If people are being truthful and not hiding items being stolen from them, then pretty sure 3P doesn’t have chicken or any rice. But they could have beans, napkins (likely because of message), cheese (almost certainly), Pico de Gallo.

Assuming Tom gave any items he had away to scum buddies, 3P shouldn’t gain from Tom’s kill today – but it is still prudent to for us to pick 3 or 4 players to kill Tom and everyone else vote and unvote.+0 (4)

What then happens if 3P steals from a player holding 2 of their required item? +2 (6)

We could lose to the 3P tonight in the worst-case scenario.

I suppose that 3P might have been gifted an item(s) so we could be in very precarious position.

Likelihood of being 3P

Snowy – almost certainly not 3P (roleblocked when cheese was stolen)
Macca – almost certainly not 3P (gave a 3P item away)
Brainbomb – very unlikely 3P (had and item stolen, didn’t visit anyone N3, claims started with non 3P starting item, was on Bona kill)

Vecna – possible (started with a 3P starting item, was on both DKs)
Jamie – possible (On Kak DK, started with a 3P starting item)
Damo – very unlikely (Claims uncontested Doc – either town or mafia)
Rdr – very unlikely (Claims uncontested Doc – either town or mafia)
Bob – possible – hasn’t yet claimed his starting item.
Tom – very unlikely 3P – very likely mafia
Foodcoats possible – no claims
Bozo – possible – no claims
Hamilton Brian – possible (started with a 3P starting item, would their tracker role help them acquire items?)
Maniac – far too handsome to steal items, (but yes I’m aware I’m still a possible candidate, started with a 3P starting item, was last on Bona d1 wagon.)

TL;DR – we really shouldn’t all vote Tom, he needs to die, but to be ultra safe we can’t allow any items he holds to fall into 3P hands.

Possible 3P – me, HB, Bozo, Food, Bob, Jamie, Vecna

##unvote

Some comments:
-The claiming of uncontested roles shouldnt factor into this as strongly as you are doing atm, since all of them happened after 2 DK's, 1 NK and a yet unclaimed Ghug shot.
-Damo did the very convincing -not knowing the rules for 3P item acquisition after getting the item from the D2 DK, which is a much stronger reason I think to not suspect him as 3P
-I have a feeling that if bob was 3P the game would be pretty much over now. That and his play feel like good enough reasons to rule him out.
-There are some other people that have given 3P items away that this list is missing.

Regardless, your conclusion about how to proceed today is correct

Some self-votes for a bunch of people are in order. I think todays vote should just be done by snowy/brain/damo/bob

##vote Vecna

[damo666]

I missed half the night which is a shame.

No hammer before the 24 hr mark please.

People with disclosed 3p items make sure you donate (to someone you trust) before then including items with charge. Recipients should not disclose.

[damo666]

Oh hai, fellow townspeople.

I had a wild night and I'm not caught up but ##Vote Tom

I'll catch up in a few hours.

@Jamie please unvote or sell vote please

[Vecna]

this is true, im not fully cleared mechanically
ill be the treasurer thanks, it sounds more fun
at least i get to steal the funds that way

Neither of you are mechanically cleared, because you could be scum together. All you would have to do was hold the NK and claim the RB and save.

How do people see posts like this and still scum read bozo? The man would have to be a literal god of mafia.

That post really is not hard to make as mafia at all? Stubbornly refusing the most likely scenario and just making pointless posts to demonstrate that you are very aware of the absolute nature of the mechanics is actually something I think comes from scum much more often.

[Jamiet99uk]

Oh hai, fellow townspeople.

I had a wild night and I'm not caught up but ##Vote Tom

I'll catch up in a few hours.

@Jamie please unvote or sell vote please

I trust Damo so ##Unvote but what's the plan? (I haven't had time to catch up and I thought Tom was pretty much certain to be scum?)

[Vecna]

How strong could the 3P now be?

They could’ve started with an item they need +1 (1) , they could’ve been on Bona kill and collected his item if it was on the list +1 (2) (Has anyone claimed receiving Bona’s item, or do they want to now?) Could they have stolen from Celaph before scum NK him? Yes but unlikely +0 (2), They could have been on Kakarroto wagon +1 (3) They could’ve stole an item N2 but nothing reported and no one died +0 (3) they could’ve shot Ghug but even if he had a 3P item it would mean 3P had the gun so still +0 (3), they allegedly stole an item n3 (Cheese) +1 (4). If people are being truthful and not hiding items being stolen from them, then pretty sure 3P doesn’t have chicken or any rice. But they could have beans, napkins (likely because of message), cheese (almost certainly), Pico de Gallo.

Assuming Tom gave any items he had away to scum buddies, 3P shouldn’t gain from Tom’s kill today – but it is still prudent to for us to pick 3 or 4 players to kill Tom and everyone else vote and unvote.+0 (4)

What then happens if 3P steals from a player holding 2 of their required item? +2 (6)

We could lose to the 3P tonight in the worst-case scenario.

I suppose that 3P might have been gifted an item(s) so we could be in very precarious position.

Likelihood of being 3P

Snowy – almost certainly not 3P (roleblocked when cheese was stolen)
Macca – almost certainly not 3P (gave a 3P item away)
Brainbomb – very unlikely 3P (had and item stolen, didn’t visit anyone N3, claims started with non 3P starting item, was on Bona kill)

Vecna – possible (started with a 3P starting item, was on both DKs)
Jamie – possible (On Kak DK, started with a 3P starting item)
Damo – very unlikely (Claims uncontested Doc – either town or mafia)
Rdr – very unlikely (Claims uncontested Doc – either town or mafia)
Bob – possible – hasn’t yet claimed his starting item.
Tom – very unlikely 3P – very likely mafia
Foodcoats possible – no claims
Bozo – possible – no claims
Hamilton Brian – possible (started with a 3P starting item, would their tracker role help them acquire items?)
Maniac – far too handsome to steal items, (but yes I’m aware I’m still a possible candidate, started with a 3P starting item, was last on Bona d1 wagon.)

TL;DR – we really shouldn’t all vote Tom, he needs to die, but to be ultra safe we can’t allow any items he holds to fall into 3P hands.

Possible 3P – me, HB, Bozo, Food, Bob, Jamie, Vecna

##unvote

I have a thought I want to share now as we are discussing the 3P. I think Ghug might be the commuter (black beans). This is a good reason for 3P not taking his item at night and being forced to shoot him at D3 before he can pass it away. No one claimed this item and it´s on 3P list.

Kak´s item wasn´t on 3P list and Damo got it. So, 3P could have Bona´s item and could have stolen Celaph´s item on N1 (or an scum item who decided not to claim it). In this case he could have at most 4 of his items (Cheese, Black Beans, Napkin and Pico de Gallo). We know the Rice and Chicken are still around.

We need to be really carefull passing 3P itens away to avoid throwing the game to 3P.

Its definitely possible, but I feel with the gaps that we have theres quite a few possible scenario's.

Also, I dont think its possible he started with a gun and then managed to aquire all those items?
There were 3 steal moments max for the 3P, one which wouldve required the gun as a starter item.

[damo666]

Last night and today’s claims have really helped us solve the game I think. One step at a time ##vote Tom

I may as well claim and explain my item.

I am the lettuce giver.

N1 - I gave Macca Romaine lettuce because he was fairly absent anyway and said he was busy so it wasn’t going to shut down conversation and restrict our info. Knowing they had some school/uni deadlines also played into my thinking.

N2 - I gave Macca spinach. I didn’t really expect it to be used, but they were they were town read and even if they were Mafia giving them spinach wouldn’t be a disaster. I also though we might have 3 investigative roles so anyone with a +ve result might want to use spinach without claiming their role to narrow the wagons down. As it happens the challenge probably wasn’t the right thing to do.

N3 - I gave Macca Kale.

I have a huge issue with this post.

The lettuce provided is random.

Not sure if this makes Maniac scum but increases my suspicions.

[snowy801]

Some comments:
-The claiming of uncontested roles shouldnt factor into this as strongly as you are doing atm, since all of them happened after 2 DK's, 1 NK and a yet unclaimed Ghug shot.
-Damo did the very convincing -not knowing the rules for 3P item acquisition after getting the item from the D2 DK, which is a much stronger reason I think to not suspect him as 3P
-I have a feeling that if bob was 3P the game would be pretty much over now. That and his play feel like good enough reasons to rule him out.
-There are some other people that have given 3P items away that this list is missing.

Regardless, your conclusion about how to proceed today is correct

Some self-votes for a bunch of people are in order. I think todays vote should just be done by snowy/brain/damo/bob

##vote Vecna

I want to hammer, though. Get back on the wagon, Vecna.

That post really is not hard to make as mafia at all? Stubbornly refusing the most likely scenario and just making pointless posts to demonstrate that you are very aware of the absolute nature of the mechanics is actually something I think comes from scum much more often.

It's not about the "could you" but the "would you." But there's no point squabbling over this now, I trust that matters will resolve itself in time. One step at a time, Tom Bombadil, then tomorrow I will likely propose we vote out foodcoats.

@Jamiet, to avoid 3P getting whatever item Tom has.

[snowy801]

I have a huge issue with this post.

The lettuce provided is random.

Not sure if this makes Maniac scum but increases my suspicions.

The lettuce draw is random, but you know what it is before you give it away.

[damo666]

Oh hai, fellow townspeople.

I had a wild night and I'm not caught up but ##Vote Tom

I'll catch up in a few hours.

@Jamie please unvote or sell vote please

I trust Damo so ##Unvote but what's the plan? (I haven't had time to catch up and I thought Tom was pretty much certain to be scum?)

We are killing Tom by people presumed bot be 3p in case Tom has a 3p item.

[Vecna]

Okay a question that ought to have been resolved long ago:

Who actually got the item from bonatogether?

If nobody claims, safe to assume 3P on that wagon.

Its sad we didnt actually do this at the start of N1. Right now we still have a 25% chance the knowledge died with Celaph/Ghug and we'd need to trust scum on revealing the info to us (if they even know).

I did not get anything.

[damo666]

I have a huge issue with this post.

The lettuce provided is random.

Not sure if this makes Maniac scum but increases my suspicions.

The lettuce draw is random, but you know what it is before you give it away.

Ah ok. That makes sense then.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie please unvote or sell vote please

I trust Damo so ##Unvote but what's the plan? (I haven't had time to catch up and I thought Tom was pretty much certain to be scum?)

We are killing Tom by people presumed bot be 3p in case Tom has a 3p item.

"Presumed bot", I assume means "presumed not"

Okay.

[Vecna]

Btw, its highly likely we do not need these shenanigans today, as Tom B had plenty of time yesterday to give all his items to his teammates due to Macca's distraction.

Due caution and all, but its pretty unlikely he has something thatll help the 3P.

[Jamiet99uk]

Okay a question that ought to have been resolved long ago:

Who actually got the item from bonatogether?

If nobody claims, safe to assume 3P on that wagon.

Its sad we didnt actually do this at the start of N1. Right now we still have a 25% chance the knowledge died with Celaph/Ghug and we'd need to trust scum on revealing the info to us (if they even know).

I did not get anything.

I do not have it.

I have gained one additional item since we started.

[Vecna]

(itd be hilarious if tomB had a bunch of missing 3P relevant items, and Macca is scum after all that had to create the distraction to make sure all items didnt get risked going to the 3P)

[Jamiet99uk]

Btw, its highly likely we do not need these shenanigans today, as Tom B had plenty of time yesterday to give all his items to his teammates due to Macca's distraction.

Due caution and all, but its pretty unlikely he has something thatll help the 3P.

Ah, good point.

[damo666]

I trust Damo so ##Unvote but what's the plan? (I haven't had time to catch up and I thought Tom was pretty much certain to be scum?)

We are killing Tom by people presumed bot be 3p in case Tom has a 3p item.

"Presumed bot", I assume means "presumed not"

Okay.

yes lol

[BobMcBob]

vecna if we want to hammer the day to avoid losing a ton of momentum to a dead day i think youre a pretty good candidate for one of the voters on it