M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[worcej]

Everyone who townreads Worcej:

Why?

Better question for you - why not?

[Jamiet99uk]

Where is Worcej?

Worcej, if you are Town, you are not helping us.
If you are scum, ##Vote Worcej.

I'm here, how can I help you? (serious question)

Examine my comments on JBH and let me know if you agree. If you don't, then please articulate which of my comments you disagree with, and why.

[worcej]

I'm alive and back from vacation.

I'll do my best to catch up but with ~30 pages behind, I'll try to stick to some higher level comments/posts instead of my usual blockade of comments.

Glad you're back, if you're town we need your insight. You have become one of the primary suspects chiefly as a consequence of POE and your absence hasn't helped you. So please obvtown for us to narrow the pool.

Without context due to catchup, how am I in POE exactly? What events or claims have us creating a POE? Point me in the right direction and I'll be able to respond with something more beneficial than just 'you're wrong, I'm town'.

I can understand the whole 'he is gone and lurking, get him!' mentality we always have and if that's the issue that gets me killed, I cannot really argue against it.

[Johnny Big Horse]

Johnny,

who are your teammates?

I was a follower of President Eden. I liked how he communicated, and he seemed always reasonable. I voted with him, although I like to fool myself into thinking I am an independent.

Right now it is clear that Damo and Jamie are both on the same team. Very clear. Mafia.

I don't understand why Rivera, EMC, Hamilton and Celaph don't see it. But whatever.

If they succeed in killing me, just know, I told you so. I am town. I am a newb. And I fingered the Mafia, and that is why they are so adamant that I go. I am a massive threat to Jamie and Damo. Why else would those guys shoot a newb who could have had a rose (I did), while Jamie, she clearly didn't have one. Oh, I know, Jamie is mafia.

The only point in scum choosing a n1 rose would be to ensure getting shot n1 to set up an apparent clear. Therefore Chaqa must be scum with Jamie.

n1 Chaqa gun n1 shoots Jamie rose n1
Failed factional kill on snowy

n2 there are 3 shots, 1 a factional kill leaves 2 hots but there's only 1 scum unaccounted for.

This is why your theory falls down. If you are town it is impossible for Chaqa and Jamie to both be scum.

You could argue Chaqa town, Jamie scum with n1 rose who got incredibly lucky leaving 2 scum available for the n2 shots. However this would be really bad play on Jamie's part and he is too good for that.

Conditional hypotheses:

If Johnny is town is Jamie is town.
If Jamie is scum Chaqa is scum, meaning not enough scum for n2 so JBH would have to be lying which means if Jamie and Chaqa are both scum JBH has to be third man which given today's narrative is nigh on impossible.

Corollary JAMIE IS TOWN

Therefore if Johnny leaves his vote on Jamie Johnny must be scum.

So, Johnny if you are town move your vote to someone that actually can be scum given the data.

That would be you then. I don't care which of you goes first, Jaime or Damo. But I see that you guys are full court pressing me, because if the others listen to me, which they aren't, then your game is up, and the town will win. Of course you have to eliminate me. But, if the town doesn't vote me out, you can always just shoot me tonight.

##VOTE Damo

[worcej]

So:

I had the same thought as Damo now appears to be having. That is, I thought to myself, is Johnny Big Horse being coached?

Reflecting on JBH's super assertive, obnoxiously aggressive attacks on me earlier this phase, it occurred to me that it really felt as if someone had told JBH: "Go after Jamie. It doesn't matter if your attacks are accurate or whether he can rebut them, just be super aggressive and keep throwing accusations at him, regardless of the facts. He'll get super angry with you, it will dominate the discussion for the whole phase, you'll keep shade directed at him and we might even make him a viable wagon, and if not, it generates lots of smoke and heat, and the lurkers on our team can hide."

I think this is a plausible take.

##Vote Johnny Big Horse

Not being coached, not mafia. I am just starting to understand the game. After being shot, I learned much more. Mostly, that I don't care anymore. Also, why be polite to Jamie when she is often not polite back. A part of me thought I should just continue to go after her just for fun, not for winning the game. I don't like it when people curse at me, and I thought this was good practice. A safe way to make myself numb to abuse.

On the other hand, I continue to think Jaime is mafia, along with Damo.

The mob should have left me around to spout these stupid theories. So why did they shoot me? Either they are stupid or my stupid theories are right.

The problem is that a lot of what you are saying in your case against me is FALSE and FAKE.

You said President Eden scumread me, when in fact he said I was "most likely town". The very opposite of what you had claimed.

You said I went nuts at Brainbomb on D1. Again, the opposite was true. I had a lot of exchanges with Brainbomb, but I was calm and reasonable all the way through, and I even encouraged Brainbomb to calm down and take a break to cool off, several times.

You're also deliberately spelling my name wrong in a way that annoys me. You wouldn't necessarily have known that the spelling "Jaime" particularly irritates me, but I'll tell you who DOES know that. Worcej. He could be the one coaching you.

I assume this is the targeted response?

My comments to each line in order:

1. In regards to PE - I see a read of you being in his town group 20 hours left of N2 then a weird comment about us being dumb. I do see that he thinks you're likely town, but he isn't 100% sure. This leaves some presence of doubt that maybe JBH is latching onto, I need to read JBH's read on you to be more reflective. I'll do that now.
2. I responded to this already, I don't agree with you here. You were picking at BB and you know it.
3. The name spelling thing isn't that uncommon and the reason why I used to mess it up is because I am friends with three 'Jaime's. And TBF, I've spelled your name right for quite awhile, so this is kinda a weird connection for you to try to make to assume I'm possibly coaching JBH.

[Hamilton Brian]

Everyone who townreads Worcej:

Why?

Better question for you - why not?

Here is what I was thinking;

Having banged on about JBH being a safe kill his impassioned (though somewhat naive) post sound very town. I am tempted to gamble 'all in' on JBH being town.

In this case who to vote for? I think it has to be from {HB, worcej, rdr}. Thoughts people on kill Johnny v assume Johnny town and if the latter who to kill?

I appeal for a Bozo type survey on the above.

Glad you mentioned worcej. Rereading their contributions but aside from some entertaining anectdotes about sleeping in a suburu, they'be been kind of combative. Going around in circles with snow. I am trying to understand what their line of thinking is.

Again, the absence hasn't helped but if you're able to get some quick thoughts down...

[Johnny Big Horse]

Johnny,

who are your teammates?

I was a follower of President Eden. I liked how he communicated, and he seemed always reasonable. I voted with him, although I like to fool myself into thinking I am an independent.

Right now it is clear that Damo and Jamie are both on the same team. Very clear. Mafia.

I don't understand why Rivera, EMC, Hamilton and Celaph don't see it. But whatever.

If they succeed in killing me, just know, I told you so. I am town. I am a newb. And I fingered the Mafia, and that is why they are so adamant that I go. I am a massive threat to Jamie and Damo. Why else would those guys shoot a newb who could have had a rose (I did), while Jamie, she clearly didn't have one. Oh, I know, Jamie is mafia.

The only point in scum choosing a n1 rose would be to ensure getting shot n1 to set up an apparent clear. Therefore Chaqa must be scum with Jamie.

n1 Chaqa gun n1 shoots Jamie rose n1
Failed factional kill on snowy

n2 there are 3 shots, 1 a factional kill leaves 2 hots but there's only 1 scum unaccounted for.

This is why your theory falls down. If you are town it is impossible for Chaqa and Jamie to both be scum.

You could argue Chaqa town, Jamie scum with n1 rose who got incredibly lucky leaving 2 scum available for the n2 shots. However this would be really bad play on Jamie's part and he is too good for that.

Conditional hypotheses:

If Johnny is town is Jamie is town.
If Jamie is scum Chaqa is scum, meaning not enough scum for n2 so JBH would have to be lying which means if Jamie and Chaqa are both scum JBH has to be third man which given today's narrative is nigh on impossible.

Corollary JAMIE IS TOWN

Therefore if Johnny leaves his vote on Jamie Johnny must be scum.

So, Johnny if you are town move your vote to someone that actually can be scum given the data.

Damo, you are not a good thinker. So... let's see, whoever votes wrong is scum. Oh, that is nearly everyone. Or, maybe it's, whoever votes for whomever is on Damo's team is scum...Yah, that's it.

The scum are desperately trying to silence me. Don't worry Damo, you can NK me tonight. I used up my rose. Jaime has too, but Jaime is scum, so no point shooting her.

[Johnny Big Horse]

Not being coached, not mafia. I am just starting to understand the game. After being shot, I learned much more. Mostly, that I don't care anymore. Also, why be polite to Jamie when she is often not polite back. A part of me thought I should just continue to go after her just for fun, not for winning the game. I don't like it when people curse at me, and I thought this was good practice. A safe way to make myself numb to abuse.

On the other hand, I continue to think Jaime is mafia, along with Damo.

The mob should have left me around to spout these stupid theories. So why did they shoot me? Either they are stupid or my stupid theories are right.

The problem is that a lot of what you are saying in your case against me is FALSE and FAKE.

You said President Eden scumread me, when in fact he said I was "most likely town". The very opposite of what you had claimed.

You said I went nuts at Brainbomb on D1. Again, the opposite was true. I had a lot of exchanges with Brainbomb, but I was calm and reasonable all the way through, and I even encouraged Brainbomb to calm down and take a break to cool off, several times.

You're also deliberately spelling my name wrong in a way that annoys me. You wouldn't necessarily have known that the spelling "Jaime" particularly irritates me, but I'll tell you who DOES know that. Worcej. He could be the one coaching you.

I assume this is the targeted response?

My comments to each line in order:

1. In regards to PE - I see a read of you being in his town group 20 hours left of N2 then a weird comment about us being dumb. I do see that he thinks you're likely town, but he isn't 100% sure. This leaves some presence of doubt that maybe JBH is latching onto, I need to read JBH's read on you to be more reflective. I'll do that now.
2. I responded to this already, I don't agree with you here. You were picking at BB and you know it.
3. The name spelling thing isn't that uncommon and the reason why I used to mess it up is because I am friends with three 'Jaime's. And TBF, I've spelled your name right for quite awhile, so this is kinda a weird connection for you to try to make to assume I'm possibly coaching JBH.

They are grasping at straws Worcez. It should be clear to you. Since you haven't been coaching me.

[Jamiet99uk]

[snip...]

You said I went nuts at Brainbomb on D1. Again, the opposite was true. I had a lot of exchanges with Brainbomb, but I was calm and reasonable all the way through, and I even encouraged Brainbomb to calm down and take a break to cool off, several times.

[snip...]

Sure you may have been calm, but you were definitely not reasonable and were poking at him to rile him up several times until he lost his shit and then you tried to calm him down.

But this is the opposite of what you said before. You said I "flipped out" and was furious. Totally untrue.

Why do you find it so hard to tell the truth?

[Chaqa]

So:

I had the same thought as Damo now appears to be having. That is, I thought to myself, is Johnny Big Horse being coached?

Reflecting on JBH's super assertive, obnoxiously aggressive attacks on me earlier this phase, it occurred to me that it really felt as if someone had told JBH: "Go after Jamie. It doesn't matter if your attacks are accurate or whether he can rebut them, just be super aggressive and keep throwing accusations at him, regardless of the facts. He'll get super angry with you, it will dominate the discussion for the whole phase, you'll keep shade directed at him and we might even make him a viable wagon, and if not, it generates lots of smoke and heat, and the lurkers on our team can hide."

I think this is a plausible take.

##Vote Johnny Big Horse

Not being coached, not mafia. I am just starting to understand the game. After being shot, I learned much more. Mostly, that I don't care anymore. Also, why be polite to Jamie when she is often not polite back. A part of me thought I should just continue to go after her just for fun, not for winning the game. I don't like it when people curse at me, and I thought this was good practice. A safe way to make myself numb to abuse.

On the other hand, I continue to think Jaime is mafia, along with Damo.

The mob should have left me around to spout these stupid theories. So why did they shoot me? Either they are stupid or my stupid theories are right.

Ah, the classic gunshot wound of wisdom.

[Jamiet99uk]

I was a follower of President Eden. I liked how he communicated, and he seemed always reasonable. I voted with him, although I like to fool myself into thinking I am an independent.

Right now it is clear that Damo and Jamie are both on the same team. Very clear. Mafia.

I don't understand why Rivera, EMC, Hamilton and Celaph don't see it. But whatever.

If they succeed in killing me, just know, I told you so. I am town. I am a newb. And I fingered the Mafia, and that is why they are so adamant that I go. I am a massive threat to Jamie and Damo. Why else would those guys shoot a newb who could have had a rose (I did), while Jamie, she clearly didn't have one. Oh, I know, Jamie is mafia.

The only point in scum choosing a n1 rose would be to ensure getting shot n1 to set up an apparent clear. Therefore Chaqa must be scum with Jamie.

n1 Chaqa gun n1 shoots Jamie rose n1
Failed factional kill on snowy

n2 there are 3 shots, 1 a factional kill leaves 2 hots but there's only 1 scum unaccounted for.

This is why your theory falls down. If you are town it is impossible for Chaqa and Jamie to both be scum.

You could argue Chaqa town, Jamie scum with n1 rose who got incredibly lucky leaving 2 scum available for the n2 shots. However this would be really bad play on Jamie's part and he is too good for that.

Conditional hypotheses:

If Johnny is town is Jamie is town.
If Jamie is scum Chaqa is scum, meaning not enough scum for n2 so JBH would have to be lying which means if Jamie and Chaqa are both scum JBH has to be third man which given today's narrative is nigh on impossible.

Corollary JAMIE IS TOWN

Therefore if Johnny leaves his vote on Jamie Johnny must be scum.

So, Johnny if you are town move your vote to someone that actually can be scum given the data.

Damo, you are not a good thinker. So... let's see, whoever votes wrong is scum. Oh, that is nearly everyone. Or, maybe it's, whoever votes for whomever is on Damo's team is scum...Yah, that's it.

The scum are desperately trying to silence me. Don't worry Damo, you can NK me tonight. I used up my rose. Jaime has too, but Jaime is scum, so no point shooting her.

I am male.

My pronouns are he/his.

Please respect that, at least.

[Jamiet99uk]

Not being coached, not mafia. I am just starting to understand the game. After being shot, I learned much more. Mostly, that I don't care anymore. Also, why be polite to Jamie when she is often not polite back. A part of me thought I should just continue to go after her just for fun, not for winning the game. I don't like it when people curse at me, and I thought this was good practice. A safe way to make myself numb to abuse.

On the other hand, I continue to think Jaime is mafia, along with Damo.

The mob should have left me around to spout these stupid theories. So why did they shoot me? Either they are stupid or my stupid theories are right.

The problem is that a lot of what you are saying in your case against me is FALSE and FAKE.

You said President Eden scumread me, when in fact he said I was "most likely town". The very opposite of what you had claimed.

You said I went nuts at Brainbomb on D1. Again, the opposite was true. I had a lot of exchanges with Brainbomb, but I was calm and reasonable all the way through, and I even encouraged Brainbomb to calm down and take a break to cool off, several times.

You're also deliberately spelling my name wrong in a way that annoys me. You wouldn't necessarily have known that the spelling "Jaime" particularly irritates me, but I'll tell you who DOES know that. Worcej. He could be the one coaching you.

I assume this is the targeted response?

My comments to each line in order:

1. In regards to PE - I see a read of you being in his town group 20 hours left of N2 then a weird comment about us being dumb. I do see that he thinks you're likely town, but he isn't 100% sure. This leaves some presence of doubt that maybe JBH is latching onto, I need to read JBH's read on you to be more reflective. I'll do that now.
2. I responded to this already, I don't agree with you here. You were picking at BB and you know it.
3. The name spelling thing isn't that uncommon and the reason why I used to mess it up is because I am friends with three 'Jaime's. And TBF, I've spelled your name right for quite awhile, so this is kinda a weird connection for you to try to make to assume I'm possibly coaching JBH.

So

You'll find I'm right about 1 and JBH was talking crap.

On point 2 yes I was arguing with Brain. That's not the issue. Pay attention. The point is that JBH said I "flipped out" at Brainbomb, went nuts, lost my temper, etc. None of which is true at all.

On point 3 I'm saying you know "Jaime" annoys me and JBH would not know that, but may have been coached to say it, to rile me up.

[Chaqa]

Jamiet99uk,

Who are your team-mates?

Thanks for asking. Right now I think Celaph is, Ghug probably is too. I actually think Hamilton Brian is on my team. Rdrivera and Damo could be.

I don't think JBH, EMC, or Worcej are on my team.

Chaqa is almost slipping to null. He's kinda drifting out of the game today, which concerns me.

Yeah, I wasn't really home much the last few days. Father's Day was an all day thing and yesterday I had a bunch of stuff going on, I'm around now, though I'm still feeling good about Hamilton, Rivera, and Worcej as the likely scum team.

[Hamilton Brian]

Jamiet99uk,

Who are your team-mates?

Thanks for asking. Right now I think Celaph is, Ghug probably is too. I actually think Hamilton Brian is on my team. Rdrivera and Damo could be.

I don't think JBH, EMC, or Worcej are on my team.

Chaqa is almost slipping to null. He's kinda drifting out of the game today, which concerns me.

Yeah, I wasn't really home much the last few days. Father's Day was an all day thing and yesterday I had a bunch of stuff going on, I'm around now, though I'm still feeling good about Hamilton, Rivera, and Worcej as the likely scum team.

Just wondering if there's been anything written over these past few days to cement this opinion of the scum team?

[damo666]

I was a follower of President Eden. I liked how he communicated, and he seemed always reasonable. I voted with him, although I like to fool myself into thinking I am an independent.

Right now it is clear that Damo and Jamie are both on the same team. Very clear. Mafia.

I don't understand why Rivera, EMC, Hamilton and Celaph don't see it. But whatever.

If they succeed in killing me, just know, I told you so. I am town. I am a newb. And I fingered the Mafia, and that is why they are so adamant that I go. I am a massive threat to Jamie and Damo. Why else would those guys shoot a newb who could have had a rose (I did), while Jamie, she clearly didn't have one. Oh, I know, Jamie is mafia.

The only point in scum choosing a n1 rose would be to ensure getting shot n1 to set up an apparent clear. Therefore Chaqa must be scum with Jamie.

n1 Chaqa gun n1 shoots Jamie rose n1
Failed factional kill on snowy

n2 there are 3 shots, 1 a factional kill leaves 2 hots but there's only 1 scum unaccounted for.

This is why your theory falls down. If you are town it is impossible for Chaqa and Jamie to both be scum.

You could argue Chaqa town, Jamie scum with n1 rose who got incredibly lucky leaving 2 scum available for the n2 shots. However this would be really bad play on Jamie's part and he is too good for that.

Conditional hypotheses:

If Johnny is town is Jamie is town.
If Jamie is scum Chaqa is scum, meaning not enough scum for n2 so JBH would have to be lying which means if Jamie and Chaqa are both scum JBH has to be third man which given today's narrative is nigh on impossible.

Corollary JAMIE IS TOWN

Therefore if Johnny leaves his vote on Jamie Johnny must be scum.

So, Johnny if you are town move your vote to someone that actually can be scum given the data.

Damo, you are not a good thinker. So... let's see, whoever votes wrong is scum. Oh, that is nearly everyone. Or, maybe it's, whoever votes for whomever is on Damo's team is scum...Yah, that's it.

The scum are desperately trying to silence me. Don't worry Damo, you can NK me tonight. I used up my rose. Jaime has too, but Jaime is scum, so no point shooting her.

LOL You are missing the point. If you are town it is 99.9999999% certain Jamie is town. Your voting of him does not make sense. Anyway you've moved to me now so it doesn't matter any more.

[damo666]

I'm alive and back from vacation.

I'll do my best to catch up but with ~30 pages behind, I'll try to stick to some higher level comments/posts instead of my usual blockade of comments.

Glad you're back, if you're town we need your insight. You have become one of the primary suspects chiefly as a consequence of POE and your absence hasn't helped you. So please obvtown for us to narrow the pool.

Without context due to catchup, how am I in POE exactly? What events or claims have us creating a POE? Point me in the right direction and I'll be able to respond with something more beneficial than just 'you're wrong, I'm town'.

I can understand the whole 'he is gone and lurking, get him!' mentality we always have and if that's the issue that gets me killed, I cannot really argue against it.

I think you'll find out once you catch up.

Jamie is quasi clear. Chaqa and ghug are off table today. Celaph is probtown. And obviously I elim myself. Leaves you rdr JBH emc HamB.

[Hamilton Brian]

Yeah, I wasn't really home much the last few days. Father's Day was an all day thing and yesterday I had a bunch of stuff going on, I'm around now, though I'm still feeling good about Hamilton, Rivera, and Worcej as the likely scum team.

Just doing a quick ISO and I can't see where you really had a case on Worcej. Some "I thinks" or a dropped vote because they hadn't posted yet.

[Johnny Big Horse]

Glad you're back, if you're town we need your insight. You have become one of the primary suspects chiefly as a consequence of POE and your absence hasn't helped you. So please obvtown for us to narrow the pool.

Without context due to catchup, how am I in POE exactly? What events or claims have us creating a POE? Point me in the right direction and I'll be able to respond with something more beneficial than just 'you're wrong, I'm town'.

I can understand the whole 'he is gone and lurking, get him!' mentality we always have and if that's the issue that gets me killed, I cannot really argue against it.

I think you'll find out once you catch up.

Jamie is quasi clear. Chaqa and ghug are off table today. Celaph is probtown. And obviously I elim myself. Leaves you rdr JBH emc HamB.

For a moment, let's assume JBH is right. He claims Damo, Jamie and Chaqa Khan are mafia. So, then doesn't it follow Damo would clear his teammates? Uh, yes. BUT, this does not prove anything. Just another slight piece of evidence that weights the scale.

Also, I don't have a clue why they think Hamilton is mafia, or Worcez. They don't post a lot... oh, that must be it. They are deflecting. Anything, anyone... just not us.

[Hamilton Brian]

Yeah, I wasn't really home much the last few days. Father's Day was an all day thing and yesterday I had a bunch of stuff going on, I'm around now, though I'm still feeling good about Hamilton, Rivera, and Worcej as the likely scum team.

Just doing a quick ISO and I can't see where you really had a case on Worcej. Some "I thinks" or a dropped vote because they hadn't posted yet.

Likewise Rivera, Chaqa.

[damo666]

Without context due to catchup, how am I in POE exactly? What events or claims have us creating a POE? Point me in the right direction and I'll be able to respond with something more beneficial than just 'you're wrong, I'm town'.

I can understand the whole 'he is gone and lurking, get him!' mentality we always have and if that's the issue that gets me killed, I cannot really argue against it.

I think you'll find out once you catch up.

Jamie is quasi clear. Chaqa and ghug are off table today. Celaph is probtown. And obviously I elim myself. Leaves you rdr JBH emc HamB.

For a moment, let's assume JBH is right. He claims Damo, Jamie and Chaqa Khan are mafia. So, then doesn't it follow Damo would clear his teammates? Uh, yes. BUT, this does not prove anything. Just another slight piece of evidence that weights the scale.

Also, I don't have a clue why they think Hamilton is mafia, or Worcez. They don't post a lot... oh, that must be it. They are deflecting. Anything, anyone... just not us.

I ask you again explain to me how {Jamie, Chaqa, damo} works. What items did we pick and for what night and what happened each night.

I challenge you.

Here's one that works.

n1. Chaqa gun n1 shoots Jamie rose n1. Failed factional scum kill of Snowy.

n2. Scum factional kill of Snowy. Damo gun n2 shoots JBH rose n2. Townsperson gun n2 kills PE but is too embarassed to admit it.

Is that what you think happened? If not tell me how. Rise to the challenge. I dare you.