M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[brainbomb]

##Call GM
can we please stop the +1 after today.

[brainbomb]

I find it quite distressing to see people implying I am mentally unstable or in general insulting me and seeing +1s piling up on disgusting remarks directed at me.

[Jamiet99uk]

##Call GM
can we please stop the +1 after today.

I endorse this.
I still prefer to keep the ban on +1's in place, to be quite honest.

[Johnny Big Horse]

Brainbomb, you can post thoughtful and perhaps helpful posts, and sometimes you post noise... maybe more often noise. I think that is the best way to play mafia. Give lots of good sound reasoning, and then lead the dupes astray.

You have convinced me that Eden is one of the town's enemies.

But there are two more, and look, I am not as clever as you legacy players, but it seems to me, we should be looking at Brainbomb (because he mixes too much noise with good reasoning), ghug (for soliciting my opinion which nobody should do) and one more, I forget who.

##Vote President Eden

If Eden is killed and turned out to be scum, would that change your scum read of brainbomb? What would you think of brain if Eden turned out to be town?

Great questions. I have no answers at present.

I am only half witted today, as have to attend a funeral. Please excuse my absence.

[brainbomb]

If you gave me the option to restart this game and play differently I would have just ignored the games first 37 hours and tried to play like HR with a very late phase pop in and hope I guessed correctly.

It seems to be a decent playstyle. Unfortunately i usually have a mountain to climb before I am able to be free from detractors. As snowy said im just this total sociopath who wants very badly to catch scum and be heard

[brainbomb]

Johnny I was the one who didnt know how many scum there were. not Jamie.

[Chaqa]

Anyone actually voting brain because of the gun BS is either scum or dumb.

[brainbomb]

I have 12 posts left so I will be back at end of phase.

I support killing emc food or eden.

also not wild about hamilton.

Do not kill: rdrivera, ghug, jamesq99mcburger, snowy, damo

[worcej]

##Call GM
can we please stop the +1 after today.

Hell no - I like my fake internet points going up.

Anyways - My opinion on each wagon:

• BB - I've liked the later posts of D1 to buy him a phase. His initial defense to suspicion was downright bad, so he's no where near my town-core yet. But the level of loathing/annoyance now fits a dejected town player that I've seen him do too many times not to notice it.
• Food - Food's put a lot of thought into the Chaqa and snowy, yet is still on BB. This seems opportunistic given that a day ago his vote when to BB when he was lead wagon. He doesn't seem adamant enough about his reads to start something with the amount of time available.
• Eden - I think eden came into the game like a dick, but his arguments and reasoning for his stance are articulated well and are based in logic. He is operating off the level of town information/assumptions and is the most townie of these 3.

I feel like EMC is going to get subbed out at this rate, which I'll be okay with since it's D1. If he somehow manages to get his vote in and avoid sub, I 100% support shooting him. But I'm interested in seeing what happens if I do this:

##vote EMC

If this doesn't take off, my vote is going to food by EOD.

Quick TL;DR of my analysis of the wagons - Order of scummiest: Food >> BB >>>> Eden

[snowy801]

Brainbomb, you can post thoughtful and perhaps helpful posts, and sometimes you post noise... maybe more often noise. I think that is the best way to play mafia. Give lots of good sound reasoning, and then lead the dupes astray.

You have convinced me that Eden is one of the town's enemies.

But there are two more, and look, I am not as clever as you legacy players, but it seems to me, we should be looking at Brainbomb (because he mixes too much noise with good reasoning), ghug (for soliciting my opinion which nobody should do) and one more, I forget who.

##Vote President Eden

If Eden is killed and turned out to be scum, would that change your scum read of brainbomb? What would you think of brain if Eden turned out to be town?

Great questions. I have no answers at present.

I am only half witted today, as have to attend a funeral. Please excuse my absence.

Ah, the funeral defense. Condolences if you truly are, but I quite recall fondly my own funeral defense (which to be fair was also true, but the timeframe was... significantly adjusted).

[brainbomb]

##Vote snowy801

[brainbomb]

Whether you are casting shade on a scum partner johnny or on town johnny; that was highly irregular to accuse a brand new player of. Someone whose character we know little about. To imply a new person under no pressure would lie about having a funeral to attend even if it was in jest is pretty bizarre

[brainbomb]

Youve concluded very little today snowy and im starting to see cracks in your reasoning which seem to focus on minutiae and friviloties. You havent actually pushed anyone for things other than semantics. And although youve extended what looked like an olive branch to me it really has been mostly you hedging that im very likely to have a gun and im annoying so you dont actually care if I die. At one point saying policy killing me is probably just fine.

I had you as strong town but now you seem to be more of a chatterbox parrot who sits back writing large replies to look like you care — which you clearly dont

[brainbomb]

I would expect you to be very talkative like you had something to prove as either alignment. the difference is you usually prove a lot and establish clear and obvious townreads as town.

[Jamiet99uk]

##Vote snowy801

Who do you think is the third scum alongside Foodcoats and Snowy?

[ghug]

##Vote snowy801

Who do you think is the third scum alongside Foodcoats and Snowy?

Gosh, Jamie, can't you read?

[snowy801]

So, my current thoughts on the game [I have meetings from 3-5:30 so I want to get this out of the way, though I anticipate being able to sneak views in throughout regardless.]

So we ended last night around 22:31 before deadline (BD) in the state of the game with 4 food, 2 brain, 2 jamiet, 2 worcej (sorry for being US centric but there was a 5 hour gap in votes, so...)

Which ended with ghug's vote on PE, making it 4 food, 2 brain, 2 PE, 2 worcej. That was ~18 BD

I am going to discount worcej henceforth for this post because I don't really think anyone is strongly pushing him as scum right now.

So PE comes out swinging, and swinging hard around 16 BD, claiming the scum team is brainbomb/ghug/x, possibly Chaqa, and follows up in a series of posts which I previously characterized as a reach, and desperate. I used that word very carefully, because when I landed my previous vote on food I hadn't any solid reason to vote him except some niggling feeling in the back of my head that this was a suspicious individual.

Now, I have better reason to believe so. The niggling feeling which was triggered by his opening was highly solidified by the series of posts he made when it became evident that he was the top wagon:

1. He acknowledges the wagon
2. Out of the blue, posts a read list unsolicited (which was unsubstantial and mostly spent its time calling people idiots, very cool)
3. When people called him out on his read list, he made a series of posts which I can only summarize as follows: "hey look guys, I don't care. I'm not concerned. Look how unconcerned I am, joking around like a clown."

Your assessment may differ, so here is food: start 26:29
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... =foodcoats

So naturally, I stayed on him, suspicious as I was. That actually came before the PE stuff I mentioned chronologically. And then PE ~18-16 BD happened, and I started criticizing his words, because I thought and still think his logic is hot trash. He naturally takes offense, and says something that really triggered my [derelict and broken, possibly] scumdar:

Why so dramatic? You're really rubbing me the wrong way with the sweeping overstatements.

This is, insofar as I can see, a threat. One which says "I don't like the way you're talking about me, back off else I'm going to start scumreading you."

This starts a pattern. That was PE's last post - let's move on to food.

So Food comes in and starts saying that I am "interpreting [PE]'s banter as certainty", which is a scummy move. I invite you all to take a minute to review whether you believe PE's statements regarding on how he believes brainbomb/ghug/x, possibly Chaqa, are mere "banter" or a serious accusation.

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... ent%20Eden (start around 18:05 BD)

Perhaps he meant only the end vote thing. Either way, I think it conveys an intent. An intent that he doesn't like what I am saying. Here's the kicker though:

In my reads now please move Eden up to townread and move snowy down to null.

So sure, someone might take my words to be suspicious, but what does that have to do with PE suddenly becoming more town? I'm sure he'll have an elegant response for us later but to me it said this, and here is my formal accusation: "snowy is throwing shade at my teammate and it is to my interest to discredit him and confer cred to my teammate instead."

I took this opportunity to vote PE, without explanation, because you might recall at this point that I was already voting for food who at this point I was already scumreading, but the thing was, I wanted to see what would happen if a world where we have food/brain, with a potential for a dark horse wagon, became food/brain/eden.

Food blows up.

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... =foodcoats

7:07 BD - 6:54 BD. That is a desperate explosion of what I perceive to be as fear. He has been placed in a situation where his theoretical alternative is now a scummate, it is no longer a question of "let's see what happens by EoD and carefully manipulate" to "we cannot let this stand, snowy cannot start a third wagon on my eden".

Call it confirmation bias, but this observation was further exacerbated by damo coming in and saying starting 6:31 BD "brain might be town, might be scum but he's gotta go."

http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... er=damo666

I personally think nobody's "gotta go" anywhere, unless we believe that individual to be the most likely to be scum, no?

Now then, caveats:

1. This entire argument was delayed, and potentially weakened, by my lasting suspicion that brainbomb is indeed scum and was angry, as PE stated, as having been caught. As brainbomb has consistently been among my top suspects thus far, and it did not appear that they were bussing, it already indicated to me that my suspicions could be suspect. However, the more I read brainbomb's later, more collected explanations the more I came to believe that his words and actions could've come from a town mindset.

2. I here apparently have identified all three scum. Am I an idiot? Yes. Am I always wrong? Yes. Am I so arrogant to believe that I have solved the game day 1? I want to say no, but in reality the answer must be yes. Am I falling deeply into confirmation bias? Yes. But despite those things, I have no better answer to provide as of yet.

3. It occurs to me that PE and food are the most blatantly arrogant swaggarts in the game and I am conflating my mislike of such behavior with scumminess.

There's still time to change minds, but I wanted to get this out during lunch when I have time, and also because I think I might have something here.

The key word is desperation. Why would someone be desperate? If they have something to lose, and the only one with the information to know whether something is being lost is scum.

[snowy801]

Youve concluded very little today snowy and im starting to see cracks in your reasoning which seem to focus on minutiae and friviloties. You havent actually pushed anyone for things other than semantics. And although youve extended what looked like an olive branch to me it really has been mostly you hedging that im very likely to have a gun and im annoying so you dont actually care if I die. At one point saying policy killing me is probably just fine.

I had you as strong town but now you seem to be more of a chatterbox parrot who sits back writing large replies to look like you care — which you clearly dont

Oh gee willikers, I'm sorry for taking the time to write it out. I will endeavor to make 23 continguous posts like you do in the future, so everyone can know when I'm writing at all times.

[Jamiet99uk]

##Vote snowy801

Who do you think is the third scum alongside Foodcoats and Snowy?

Gosh, Jamie, can't you read?

Moments earlier he predicted it was "emc, food, eden". So I'm curious to know how the addition of Snowy to his scumreads changes things.

[ghug]

I'm finding that my view of the game matches Snowy's and brain's.