M68: Guns N' Roses GAMETHREAD [hidden]

[foodcoats]

Clipping snowy's quote for sake of length:

Nor am I "desperate" to solve the game. I see things and I point them out. I don't get why you're shading my posts while agreeing with me.

If it were merely that, I do not think you would be claiming you have found all three mafia members 10 hours before deadline and slamming end votes. It is sufficient to most probably identify one scum member by end of day, you see, and as I stated earlier your chaqa-ghug connection is an unbelievable reach which I cannot find a justification for.

Interpreting someone's banter as certainty is something that I think scum do. Here, snowy is interpreting Eden's "lol got'em" statements as being lock-certainty about the scum team - and then saying that that is a desperate move to appear townie from a scum!Eden.

I actually find it much more scummy of snowy to take Eden's position and twist it this way than for Eden to make a "lol got'em" statement in the first place.

In my reads now please move Eden up to townread and move snowy down to null.

[foodcoats]

The chance I have a gun is actually 100%, snowy.

@food: I don’t think I ever said there were no guns? I said I picked a gun without having read the setup, which is true.

Eden’s point about me shooting ghug is also true. I had told him I was going to pick a gun and pop him, which I may still do, but it seems a little off now obsessed he is with it

Ah, you are right. I misread this post:

Thus it still remains the case that in the pool of:

Brainbomb
Ghug
Chaqa

There must be at least one scum.

Purely on the numbers I can't see a good reason to vote outside that pool today.

Well, if brain in fact chose a rose, there could be exactly 0 scum in there.

I deserve a slap.

[worcej]

Brainbomb, you can post thoughtful and perhaps helpful posts, and sometimes you post noise... maybe more often noise. I think that is the best way to play mafia. Give lots of good sound reasoning, and then lead the dupes astray.

You have convinced me that Eden is one of the town's enemies.

But there are two more, and look, I am not as clever as you legacy players, but it seems to me, we should be looking at Brainbomb (because he mixes too much noise with good reasoning), ghug (for soliciting my opinion which nobody should do) and one more, I forget who.

##Vote President Eden

I disagree with your opinion on ghug. It makes the most sense to engage with a new player so that we can bring them actively into the game instead of having them sit back and be engulfed in our shitstorm of posting.

I will say your posting has gotten significantly better - your entrance was poor and I am curious, have you played any sort of mafia/werewolf before?

I have never played mafia before. It looked like from from afar, but all of this nastiness, especially yesterday... I might as well read the news.

But I have played Avalon in person several times, and my line of thinking comes straight from that.

Some of us have played together for over 40 games, so some tempers flare up every now and then. I'd say the news is far worse than us

[snowy801]

Interpreting someone's banter as certainty is something that I think scum do. Here, snowy is interpreting Eden's "lol got'em" statements as being lock-certainty about the scum team - and then saying that that is a desperate move to appear townie from a scum!Eden.

I actually find it much more scummy of snowy to take Eden's position and twist it this way than for Eden to make a "lol got'em" statement in the first place.

In my reads now please move Eden up to townread and move snowy down to null.

This is a most interesting response. Quite possibly exactly what I was searching for, I am not sure.

##vote President Eden

[worcej]

I find it notable that worcej has yet to vote despite his contributions.

Would you say that this is customary for you? If so, who do you think you would hypothetically vote for if someone put a gun to your head and if not, what's different?

I am going to revisit an interaction at EON1 that I can't discuss right now.

I haven't given you much thought, but this intuitively strikes me as a pure scum action. I will not press you to reveal the topic, and I doubt you would regardless, but why do you suppose you chose to announce ahead of time that you will discuss said interaction later, rather than simply doing so at night?

I usually don't move my vote a whole bunch and generally place it near EOD unless there is a compelling reason (such as claims) to not.

Hypothetically, with a gun to my forehead, I'd vote BB at this exact moment. But I have ~5 pages to catch up to see if my opinion should change.

[Hamilton Brian]

This is a most interesting response. Quite possibly exactly what I was searching for, I am not sure.

What was it from foodcoats that made you decide to vote PE?

[worcej]

Also Snowy, as you may well find, I have a reputation for low and useless posting. Emc and I will be in a race to the bottom.

EMC is currently winning that race by a good margin. You're at least making some effort.

Jamie really has a target for EMC's lurking this game.

@Jamie - is this the typical 'he doesn't play why does he sign up' or something more?

[snowy801]

This is a most interesting response. Quite possibly exactly what I was searching for, I am not sure.

What was it from foodcoats that made you decide to vote PE?

Let me sit on the answer to this for a little while. I need to organize my thoughts, and I'm curious to see what happens without my further intervention.

[worcej]

imo, people with hidden status are cowards.

Everyone should be hidden now that we know you can see when someone is writing a PM.

It isn't cowardly to prevent people from cheating.

[worcej]

were into the point of the game where people generate lists of where they view every player in the game with zero explanation as to why.

gonna say at least 3 of the ppl who posted forced reads lists are scum here

Another good townie post.

So one towny post out of how many and you're auto on the "Brain is town..." side? The more I read the less inclined I am.

'townie posts' does not make someone automatically town.

This post in question was a good observation that I agreed with - there were a few low effort read lists and I find those distracting and not actually helpful.

[Hamilton Brian]

This post in question was a good observation that I agreed with - there were a few low effort read lists and I find those distracting and not actually helpful.

Fair enough.

[foodcoats]

At first I was like:

I am strongly in favor of being honest to town, against the popular notion of being ambiguous or deceptive in an attempt to deceive scum.

And then I was like:

This is a most interesting response. Quite possibly exactly what I was searching for, I am not sure.

What was it from foodcoats that made you decide to vote PE?

Let me sit on the answer to this for a little while. I need to organize my thoughts, and I'm curious to see what happens without my further intervention.

I am not scumreading snowy for this, but I really liked the original sentiment about laying bare, playing "to town" and not trying to "mine" for scum. I don't really like when people claim to be doing fancy things to trap scum or generate reactions that will illuminate the hidden secrets of the universe. damo was doing it too by refusing to explain why he thinks brain should claim.

[worcej]

As long as we kill obvious mafia brainbomb today and I get to tell y’all the other two mafia EON1 that’s fine by me

This post feels forced. ##VOTE Eden

Also I feel like all the "bitch" stuff is intended to provoke shitshow.

Eh, it seems like a pretty normal Eden thing to say.

In my limited experience with Eden (being him playing here) it felt a little too much at the time.

But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you both do a lot more stuff together.

[foodcoats]

Another good townie post.

So one towny post out of how many and you're auto on the "Brain is town..." side? The more I read the less inclined I am.

'townie posts' does not make someone automatically town.

This post in question was a good observation that I agreed with - there were a few low effort read lists and I find those distracting and not actually helpful.

Is it townie or scummy that there had not even been three reads lists and brain did not realize this? Is it townie or scummy that brain believes three of the alleged reads listers were scum - i.e. that brain believed that the entire scum team posted fake reads lists?

[worcej]

Team is brainbomb / ghug / x, most likely Chaqa but not necessarily.

- All 3 took guns so they're not among the 9-11 (out of 11) town that took roses
- brainbomb's whining about being pressured over his pregame choice was so obviously mafia that's mad he got sussed on mechanics and not on being scummy, he's not once actually addressed any reasons why people put pressure on him and just whines about how mechanical info is unfair. Everything he did in his frustration yesterday was beg town to let him try to trick them. If you know bb you know he cares a lot about this kinda thing.
- ghug is forcing reads and disinterested in finding mafia, and awkwardly trying to justify a townread on Chaqa (who has done nothing to get "top townread" status) so that he has a reason why neither of them shoot each other. ghug generally agreed with the personality read on brainbomb I mentioned above and is now making up reasons not to be on a very strong day 1 wagon.

Chaqa hasn't actually done anything suspicious, but the numbers on guns suggest he's well above random chance to be mafia. He can prove he's town by shooting ghug and having ghug flip mafia. If he does some 300 IQ play where he shoots his own teammate to get a clear then he can have it I guess. But if they don't shoot each other they're 100% mafia, anyone who knows anything about them knows that the only thing they enjoy more than fucking with each other in mafia is winning so the only reason they won't hipfire each other is because they know they're on the same team.

I trust y'all will wake up in time to vote obvscum brainbomb out.

AMA I guess but spare me any made up pretenses or obviously phony criticisms, real inquiries only please. Thank you \m/

##VOTE brainbomb
##END

I want to hear more about the ghug take... from what you mentioned as scum reasons for ghug would be somewhat new for his scum game - I feel he is far more active as scum than he is now.

[snowy801]

At first I was like:

I am strongly in favor of being honest to town, against the popular notion of being ambiguous or deceptive in an attempt to deceive scum.

And then I was like:

What was it from foodcoats that made you decide to vote PE?

Let me sit on the answer to this for a little while. I need to organize my thoughts, and I'm curious to see what happens without my further intervention.

I am not scumreading snowy for this, but I really liked the original sentiment about laying bare, playing "to town" and not trying to "mine" for scum. I don't really like when people claim to be doing fancy things to trap scum or generate reactions that will illuminate the hidden secrets of the universe. damo was doing it too by refusing to explain why he thinks brain should claim.

I'm afraid I can promise no such illumination, only the sentiment that I am not confident in my ability to vocalize my growing suspicions, as well as an inclination to see the game play out more and have some time to think before I make the attempt.

I wish I were as bombastic as people like President Eden, ever certain of their beliefs, but I have learned over time that I am simply not correct every single time and it was truly a tragedy to embrace the thought. Tragic, but necessary.

[foodcoats]

To carry on from my comment on snowy's behaviour, at least one person, and I think more, was shading Eden for saying "I have to read something from EON1, can't discuss it now," which he came back later to say was his read of Chaqa and ghug's interactions that he didn't want to affect with his analysis. I dislike that Eden did this initially, but it should also be pointed out that anyone who was shading him should equally shade damo and snowy for being too clever for the rest of us.

Although, I don't actually scumread any of them for it, I just think it's anti-town.

SEE SOMETHING SAY SOMETHING

[foodcoats]

And I also realize I am basically posting crap at this point that is not directly helpful to solving and am also guilty. Alas.

[worcej]

So one towny post out of how many and you're auto on the "Brain is town..." side? The more I read the less inclined I am.

'townie posts' does not make someone automatically town.

This post in question was a good observation that I agreed with - there were a few low effort read lists and I find those distracting and not actually helpful.

Is it townie or scummy that there had not even been three reads lists and brain did not realize this? Is it townie or scummy that brain believes three of the alleged reads listers were scum - i.e. that brain believed that the entire scum team posted fake reads lists?

It's NAI to me that brain used the number 3 specifically - the important note was that I agreed with the concept that there were lists being made with not enough context to really learn anything about thought processes.

It could be catchup issues, but the snowy list stood out as meh to me and I saw a few contributors, such as HB, Jamie, and ghug, to it that were also worthless.

At first, when I read by snowy's list, I was interested in the thought process. But then I thought about it more and realized it has nothing to do with alignment and is a wasted exercise.

[worcej]

There's plenty of possible reasons, none of which I'm privy to:

- You didn't think about it and just claimed truthfully
- You did think about it, and decided that people wouldn't believe a rose claim and would be suspicious of it
- You did think about it, but just didn't care
- You specifically wanted to be able to make this point at some point in the game

I'm not you and I'm not mafia so I have no idea which it is, or if it's something else altogether that comes from having info I don't have. But even if it's optimal play to claim rose (debatable, though I tend to think so), I have no reason to assume you made the optimal decision in this case.

Better question is why you pretended to think my comment about the high number of rose picks is mafia stirring the pot. That's a preposterous reach.

I don't think your first point would happen with ghug and Chaqa - they are not that stupid to just blurt it out.

I can see 2 and 3, especially 3 from Chaqa, from both of them.

Point 4 is kinda meh in my opinion. I don't see scum~ghug/Chaqa laying breadcrumbs to go back to as scum.