MAFIA XXXVII: THE WHEEL OF WEB-TIME

[yavuzovic]

Of course, ##vote brainbomb and ##end

[rdrivera2005]

I have been reading what I missed and it haven't been a pleasure.

Some impressions: Brain and Teacher interaction seems weird, forced. I had a town read on both, but I start to believe maybe Brain is SK (this is an explanation for being soo upset, Brain can't win as SK) and maybe Teacher is scum.

@Brain - Why you are so sure I am scum? Why you are soo annoyed?

I also made a fast read on Ike and DrCJG and can't find any PR hints, were the kills just fearkills?

I also don't understand why SK (or even Mafia) didn't kill Yav. It's the perfect kill for SK, probably ensure two lynches (Brain and Teacher). And it's another reason to change my town read on them. Yav is another option to SK, he is playing really different this game (Teacher pointed out too), a lot more aggressive.

I still have some slight scumreads on Fox and Bozo that seems to be coasting, but not enough to push their lynch.

[Jamiet99uk]

3.
9.
11.
14.
Bingo.

[yavuzovic]

Oh look once again Brainbomb refuses to answer a straight question and posts angry frothing bullshit.

Can anyone who townreads him explain, since he refuses, why DrCRG's death renders it impossible that Brainbomb is scum as he seems to claim?

I shot DrCgjc

Do you counter claim?

I claim you are a liar, and not the SK. You said that as SK you would kill Yavuzovic. Yavuzovic is still alive. Your post-facto claim to have killed DrCJG is not persuasive.

However if you are sticking to your claim to be SK then of course we should lynch you. The SK is the enemy of town and killing the SK will help town win.

This doesn't explain everything. Somebody might have attacked me and somebody has protected me. We don't really know who killed Ike and who killed CJG.
Also give me 15 minutes to read what happened when I was away.

[damo666]

So Jamie I assume 3 9 11 14 includes SK?

And I assume you mean Brain, Fox, Peter, Teacher.

I think you have a MINIMUM of one right and highly likely a MINIMUM of one wrong.

[yavuzovic]

Lynching brain will not be only good for our win condition, he is also a great problem for reading the thread. I think that's spam.

[damo666]

Depends who 'our' is Yav

[teacher2]

Let's at least advance the game while we are in our tunnel and not hammer? Last reactions before V/LA til tonight.

@Teacher2 - I want an indepth explenation why you backed off. Because you stated your reason for scumreading Peter is that he lurks as scum. Go use his own bot against him and tell me how that is not exactly what is happening this game.

Ummmm, Ive been talking about that ever since the flip, if not before? Here are the two best ones, but if you ISO me I repeat it other times as well. (1 and 2). Basically its pure Meta from him acting the same way in M36. Also, perhaps you missed the second question to you in link 2 – a lot has happened since you pushed Peter. Are you still pushing him just on that one post?

Brain and Teacher interaction seems weird, forced.

It was, at least from me. I was trying to get actual information out of him without getting cursed/ignored. It did feel like playing with a bomb.

I also made a fast read on Ike and DrCJG and can't find any PR hints, were the kills just fearkills?

This is the source of my Yav as SK crackpot theory. It would explain why SK didn’t go for Yav, and also the specific SK target.

Serial Killer should want to kill scum to avoid being endgamed too early. But kills were relatively towny. That means the SK was a fearkill.

Initially, both targets make sense as fear kills – Ike and Dr are experienced and good players. But its at the next level – who is afraid? – that the SK occurs. I don’t think SK kills Ike because he does not pose an obvious threat to any one slot yet.

Dr, in contrast, poses an obvious threat to Yav, given his end of D1 talk about always scumreading Yav and being willing to go there today. I now agree with the consensus that Dr was the SK, and I think he points to the identity of the Serial Killer.

As Ive said, Yavuz has just felt off this game, but I was having difficulty pairing him. This NKA ties everything nicely together.

Somebody might have attacked me and somebody has protected me.

Scum/SK/Vet-JOAT would know if you were attacked (but it is probably too early for a Vet-JOAT attack so two kills make sense), and Doc-JOAT would know if you were protected, which makes you a semi-town clear but also an incomprehensible save target since you were pretty mixed-read.

[Vecna]

Pretty sure the post you were replying to answered that.

[teacher2]

Pretty sure the post you were replying to answered that.

Fair enough. Can you answer my question for overnight about retracting your Rod Rivera read?

[teacher2]

autocorrect FTW!

[brainbomb]

Its interesting that I get voted on for spamming and toxicity but when I dont talk none of my voters even try to eval amyone

[damo666]

Brain can you answer my q re worcej please

[yavuzovic]

What is the point of SK claiming if BB is a town?
What is the point of calling themselves "werewolf"?

[worcej]

Readlist, 2.0 - I'd come up with a catchy topic to make it funny, but my Sunday Morning humor is nowhere to be found.

I'll make this one focus on the current people up for lynching:

Brain - STILL TOWN LEAN: I might be the only one that thinks this, mostly because you're driving everyone nuts. But let's all be honest about this: What would the value of brain continuing to shine a spot-light on himself do if he were scum? I imagine scum will not every NK Brain because of the fact he is wildly viewed as annoying/bothersome. I honestly think he's just stirring the pot to get people to slip... which is leading me to my next read...

Jamie - SOFT SCUM LEAN: Majority of people seem to think it's irrelevant, but I find your tunneling on Brain a majority of this game to be suspicious. To me, assuming Brain is the D2 Lynch, if he flips town you're immediately my top scum due to the hyper focus you've put onto him this game. You voted for him from your first post and have never left him once, regardless of the community input. Let's go further with this - @Jamie, if he flips town at EOD, what will be your defense for hyper focusing him?

worcej - Cool Dude: An awesome dude that is the epitome of town.

peterlund - SCUM LEAN: Peter seems to be deflecting in his D2 posts away from himself. Nothing is being offered as substantial and is mostly fluff, http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... =peterlund, and the D1 posts were also nothing to be excited about other than declaring teacher as possible scum.

teacher2 - SOFT TOWN LEAN: Really hard to nail you down to scum because I feel like you're genuinely playing as how I've seen you play in the past two games and both times you were town. I'll continue with my town lean and see how the game develops - considering the NK possibilities might solve that riddle for me.

Otherwise, Damo and Bismark are both on my 'meh' list due to really not posting much and lurking. This is typical of Damo, based on Noob game experience (also why it was easy to tunnel you on D1 in said game), and I know nothing of Bismark.

More to come, considering we're over 24 hours from EOD :D

[Foxcastle]

Having the traitor taken out is actually pretty lucky for us, I think. Not knowing who his scumbuddies were, he was going to be the hardest one to draw connections to and analyze interactions.

I would love the delicious irony if the mafia took out their own traitor, but I'm inclined to think that RagingIke was a mafia fearkill. They'd be looking to get rid of someone who was widely townread and potentially going to lead the town to victory, and RagingIke fits that bill pretty well. I think Vecna is also up there, but Vecna is too busy tunneling Peter right now. I think it's more likely that the mafia team includes at least one veteran who knows to fearkill RagingIke and would not have been worried about DrCJG, than an entire scumteam of newbies who decided to take out DrCJG instead.

That's speculation, but if that's true, why would the Serial Killer go for DrCJG?
The Serial Killer wants to be widely town read to avoid the lynch, and has no fear of the NK, so actually does have a real incentive to solve the game. Also an incentive to get rid of players that look better than him to keep himself further from the lynch.

I think there were better kills than DrCJG whether he was the NK or the SK. He was mostly townread, but not universally, and was wearing a reputation as a good scum player, and it would be easy to throw shade on him for his role in mislynching thedipplayer. [Reads summary: Yavuz parked a vote on him; Teacher read him as null early on (p. 14) and then a townlead after the lynch (p. 38); Jamie was null (p. 16); BB gave him an early town read (p. 17) and then another in the night (p. 35); slight scumread/pressure read from Rdrivera (p. 18) who later floated that voting for DrCJG was an option (p. 29); townread from Foxcastle (p. 22); scumlean from Worcej (p. 25); slight scumread from Squiggs at the beginning of the night (p. 32); townread from Bozo at EON (p. 38) though probably too late to affect NK/SK orders.]

So that makes me think the SK is not a veteran. Not to imply that new players can't play well, but the SK doesn't have anyone to talk to about strategy (like the mafia QT), and so I think if there is inexperience in that slot, it is more likely to show up.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie, if he flips town at EOD, what will be your defense for hyper focusing him?

He is claiming to be the Serial Killer. Why would you *not* lynch someone who is doing that?

[Squigs44]

This is through post 893:

1. BismarckAlive: Null
Lurked. His few posts have seemed genuine to me. I can definitely tell it’s his first forum mafia game though. His vote on peter was the last of that wagon before it dissapated, so if peter is mafia, it is highly unlikely BA is as well.

2. Bozo: Town Lean
Hasn’t posted a ton, but what he has posted hasnt raised any red flags. His voting D1 makes me lean town on him. First to thedip, later switched to peter, but explained it as a better alternative to lynching BB, then flipped back to thedip once that wagon was a more viable option.

3. Brainbomb: What his name implies, a bomb
I can’t get a read on Brainbomb. Everytime I think I have a good idea of why he does things, he switches it up. He is a master at WIFOM as well. Part of me thinks he is the SK and didn’t kill Yav on purpose so that people were more likely to think he isnt SK. But again, this is all WIFOM. The only way we are going to know his role is once he turns up dead (or the end of the game if he survives). Once he is dead, that gives us a whole lot of information since he has been one of the focuses of the game. Wouldn’t mind lynching him for that reason, but I think there are better options that are more likely to be scum, so ##Unvote Brainbomb

4. Damo666: Null / Scumlean
Day 1 he was not active at all, and voted without much explanation. Jumped on the BB wagon with his vote, then tried to jump on the worcej wagon, then finally settled on the peter wagon. All of his votes were to jump on wagons. Then accuses those that jumped on thedip wagon, specifically peter and worcej. Later in the game when we know more identities this could be very telling. @Damo - I would like to hear your thoughts on more players. Also, if you could provide some more original thoughts rather than jumping on wagons without explanation that would be great.

5. Squigs44: Only guy I can trust in this whole game

6. DoubtingThomas: Null / Scumlean
The newbiest of all the newbs. Either he is scum trying not to screw up and get killed, or he is a scared first time player. Hasn’t scum hunted at all. Just following along with everyone else. @DoubtingThomas - Why don’t you stop following along and worrying about what people think and post some of your original thoughts about who is scum and why

7. DrCJG : Rip

8. Flash2015 : Slight town
Has shown the most effort from the newbs. Everything he says makes sense and is justified. However, his only real reads I have seen have been: lynch BB cause he is lying. He flipped his vote to thedip because “the final choice wasn't horrible as thedipplayer wasn't making much of an effort anyway”, and also, “I didn't feel like I could influence the lynch much at the end because I didn't have any strong reads on anyone apart from BB”. So his flip to thedip seems just a little off to me. Why switch if it doesn’t make a difference? Seems like he might be hedging here. Town read for me for his effort and involvement, but would like to see him put himself out there a little more with reads on everyone. I’m still keeping my eye on you.

9. Foxcastle: Slight town
After rereading through him again, I actually like him a lot more. The beginning of his game I still dislike. Talked about game mechanics and joked around. But once it got into crunch time end of day 1, he was thinking critically. He called people out for how they were voting, questioning people’s reasonings and pointing out inconsistencies. He didn’t vote on any of the wagons which I like, but it also makes his vote inconsequential. Normally I would think this is scummy, but considering how hard he pushed a no-lynch, I think this is consistent with his playstyle.

10. Jamiet99uk: Null
Tunnelling way too hard. Of course there was his Brainbomb explosion at the beginning of the game, but after posting his reads somewhat early on, he has posted twice 3,9,11,14 without an explanation as if that is the unalterable truth. Has been less active now that him and BB have stopped fighting. It’s hard for me to decide if his emotional and reactive play is just his authentic townie play style, or if he is frustrated scum.

11. Peterlund: Town lean
I don’t know why he had a wagon on him D1. His comment about Jamie and BB going at each other being an act was not scummy at all IMO. It’s a very real strategy that I have seen used before. After the wagon got on him, he remained calm, and actually mounted a good argument against Teacher, which I really like. The only red flag here is he was the one to flip the vote to thedip. Given that his vote on teacher wasn’t going to accomplish anything, it looks like he probably just wanted a useful vote that would break the tie.

12. RagingIke: Rip

13. Rdrivera2005: Town
Low poster, but quality posts. Keeps a level head and doesn’t get caught up in some of the drama that other players do like the worcej wagon or the jamie-bb interaction. Makes a good post about Fox. Would like to see more activity from him, but honestly I like all of his posts.

14. Teacher2: Slight Town
I like him a lot more than my last reads post. He has been one of the most active posters, and at least after D1, they are good posts. Asks a lot of questions, digs things up, and posts reads. I still am wary of his D1 play, and his analytics, so only a slight town.


15. Thedipplayer: Rip

16. Vecna: Scum
His page 15 reads have comments on all his town or null reads, but no explanation on his scum reads. And since then he hasnt really posted much to scum hunt. This comment on page 23: “just know all the people with a lot of experience are telling you to vote peterLund” is very scummy to me.

17. Worcej: Scum
His reads post on page 25 seems to be more a comment on play styles than anything else. He puts his read as null on peter, but then jumps on the peter wagon with his vote? Then flips to thedip which causes that wagon to tie, and eventually wins. His comment of “saw this one coming” after thedip died is also scummy. If you saw it coming why did you vote for him?
##Vote Worcej

18. Yavuzovic: Scum lean
See previous arguments against Yav. Basically he has tunnelled on BB and has been static this game. Add to that the fact that he has been very quiet lately and he is still a scum lean for me.

[bozotheclown]

I am a little behind, so I am going to go back to the beginning of D2. Since DrCJG was the traitor, we do not know which kill was the NK and the SK. There are other possibilities as well, there could have been a kill by the JOAT or veteran, with the NK or SK getting saved or the NK and SK target being the same. However, most likely the two kills were the NK and SK, and only the mafia and SK know who was the NK and who was the SK.

Here is the first post by brainbomb D2:

LOL whyd I kill Drcj?

Here is a response by Jamie:

LOL whyd I kill Drcj?

You didnt. You killed RagingIke.

My question to brainbomb and Jamie is, why did you assume DrCJG was the SK?

[bozotheclown]

@Vecna: In the pregame chat, you said you were going to "janitor" peter the first chance you had, then you scum read peter for some of his first comments in the game and voted for him, referencing your pregame comment. Why the focus on peter? Even if you believe he is scum, it appears you had a bias going into the game and were looking at him closely for anything suspicious.