MAFIA 67 OFFICIAL GAME THREAD —//—//— CURSE OF THE AZURE BONDS [hidden]

[Hamilton Brian]

As far as Hambone I think I had him pegged for his limp onto the wagon after it got rolling PRE-claim

That's right; I've said multiple times I look pretty shitty for voting Chaqa after ghug did to make that wagon more prominent.

[foodcoats]

@foodcoats, you expressly were not a fan of HR's day 1. In light of their demise, do you look at their day differently?

I was just not a fan of HR doing nothing on D1. I don't recall there being a lot of interaction with him, either. So I don't feel there's much to analyze there.

[gimix]

Wow I just finished reading all that everybody posted in my night time. You may say this is low volume, but it's already a lot to read

[gimix]

As I already said this is my first game so I cannot say "X behaves that way when they're scum" or all the other sophisticated deductions that have been made.
I'll stick to the very simple, and the very simple and perhaps the only fact we know is that Damo (and to a lesser extent Perplex) was saved last minute at Chaqa's expense, and someone did a lot of work for this to happen.
So I tend to scumread Damo, and those who saved them, especially ghug.
But now the fact is, town should not risk to miskill their JOAT, even if the probability that Damo really is the JOAT seems rather low to me. So i suppose I'll
##vote ghug

[gimix]

It is rather funny that ghug was the one to insist yesterday for me to say who was rising my suspicions

[Perplexity]

##vote gimix

[Perplexity]

Brian is no longer townie, maybe worcej was right, he's trying too hard

[Perplexity]

all in all, there's no interest in coats being hanged today!

[damo666]

As I already said this is my first game so I cannot say "X behaves that way when they're scum" or all the other sophisticated deductions that have been made.
I'll stick to the very simple, and the very simple and perhaps the only fact we know is that Damo (and to a lesser extent Perplex) was saved last minute at Chaqa's expense, and someone did a lot of work for this to happen.
So I tend to scumread Damo, and those who saved them, especially ghug.
But now the fact is, town should not risk to miskill their JOAT, even if the probability that Damo really is the JOAT seems rather low to me. So i suppose I'll
##vote ghug

gimix looks fairly solid town to me. Misguided, but town nevertheless.

[damo666]

all in all, there's no interest in coats being hanged today!

I think you'll find coats are hung.

OK I'll get mine .....

[Perplexity]

my vote's on gimix because he acts too safe, it's obvious that no scumbo will be openly scummy, they are guided in pm so we shouldn't necessarily look for scummy cause towns can be that too

tone, vibe, consistency and deliverance will be my tools for finding them

[Perplexity]

bona! heard great things about you

[Perplexity]

Jamie made a really good point in the last game that one of the things scum actively try to do is create confusion, and we can't discount that that is what happened last night.

then it must be a very powerful team with experienced players. Yes, I thought of Vecna for anyone asking

[Perplexity]

Fair enough, I was looking at this purely from a votes perspective

coats, where do you have me in your pile?

[Vecna]

Jamie made a really good point in the last game that one of the things scum actively try to do is create confusion, and we can't discount that that is what happened last night.

then it must be a very powerful team with experienced players. Yes, I thought of Vecna for anyone asking

So you think scum killed HR with the reason of sowing confusion?

[Perplexity]

mafia team has at least 1 clever mofo and someone in that team has experience with or knows Riot well, also someone brought a good point, a player being mega townie could be the sniper

The sniper would want to infiltrate and be as townie as possible, it's easier for him cause he's by himself and doesn't need to defend anyone

[ghug]

This type of posturing with lists of strong reads is something you love to do as scum though

It isn't a list of reads. It's a list of live players who are not quasi town clear (worcej) and not our only unexposed PR.

Why am I not on it?

[worcej]

@worcej, can you speak more to your ghug read?

With ghug the way he talks about Chaqa makes me think he believed he was killing town. Aside from his page 1 vote which he later describes as arguably an OMGUS vote, he never made an indication that he found anything about Chaqa's play scummy. At best he asked why people thought Chaqa was town and said that Chaqa is a bad player. After he started the flashwagon and voted he did give a reason (see below), but it's basically entirely a meta argument. He is even comparing Chaqa's play to town Chaqa's past games. None of that feels towny to me.

My read of ghug has been based on his skepticism and observations (namely Chaqa's) were his reads. To me, as I read what he said during D1, I interpreted it as 'Chaqa is scum' so I didn't find his D1 activity to fall into scummy ranges. Especially the call for people to get on Chaqa once Damo claimed - in the heat of the moment, Chaqa was doomed because of the claim.

Also, does it not bother you that the last time ghug did this (M65) you two were scum? Side note because I was curious, town ghug doesn't vote for Chaqa D1.
Town Ghug: M57, M61, M62, M66 didn't vote for Chaqa D1.
Scum Ghug: M60, M63, and M65 did vote for Chaqa D1.
Chaqa subbed in part way through M57 so that counts less and going back further than that is much less meaningful as we have to skip to M39 to find another game they played together. But even still I think it's far more likely that ghug is defaulting to someone he knows that he can miskill than just a general dislike for Chaqa.

I read mostly memeing, but either Chaqa hasn't learned his lesson from his D1 miskill a couple days ago, or he thinks he's established an active meta as scum and wants to distance from it, which are both decent reasons to kill him.

My read of ghug has drastically changed now that N1 has resolved and we are where we are. He has flipped from in my town pool into me scum pool rather quickly.

The problem, in general and my interpretation, with ghug is there are a group of players (which I am a part of) that ghug doesn't care about killing in any game as any alignment. Chaqa is definitely on that list as well. That being said, it's easy for ghug to hide behind this.

Now what I really don't like (reading up to this post btw, still catching up) is ghug's apparent stance that flipping damo is bad/no information, which is bullshit. From a VCA perspective, damo is the juiciest mofo possible and his flip (now that N1 has happened) is incredibly attractive - just read PE's reasoning on scum meta (which I agree with heavily).

If Damo is scum, HB and rdr all look like possible scum trying to save him prior to the claim. Ghug comes off as trying to protect him post-claim, which is to draw out the inevitable and prevent scum from using this (in case you forgot):

Three Bits O Mander (Mafia Shambler)
You are a Mafia Shambling Mound. You are immune to poison and lightning. During a day phase once per game you may smother another player silencing them for the remainder of the day. Players silenced in this way will not be able to be eliminated and will survive daykilling. Silencing will be announced in the game thread.
You win when the town is eliminated.

If damo is scum and we get to D3, scum can keep him around even longer and force town into possible more miskills.

If damo was town, he should've been jailed last night. That was the optimum play any scum team would've done. The people battling against my WIFOM using logic seem to be ignoring this catch, which is making me go

[worcej]

a supposed 'PR' revealed EOD and scum uses their ability on worcej?

Presumably that together with killing HR is meant to confuse and they hope people will be daft enough to mk me.

What ability did you use and why?

[ghug]

Mulling over damo's aliveness, it is very odd that scum jailed worcej and not the JOAT, because they would know no matter what it was a coinflip if damo self-heals or does an action and that they might have their killer tracked - which, even though a low possibility, is very bad, and they have the complete power to neuter damo. damo also was acting more of a funny-man D1 than I think he usually does, he did the "shoot the parrot" thing, and although I initially thought that scum would have little reason to make a fakeclaim D1 even if they're on the block, worcej made a really good point that the JOAT claim has extra value because, if damo is scum, both the JOAT and the cop might counter. Also, if damo is the Jailor or the Sniper and not the Shambler or the Goon, hard-saving himself is very worthwhile.

But irrespective of all this, there is absolutely no reason to daykill damo, as others have already said. We can expect he will either be killed or counterclaimed shortly. Also, damo, you should reveal any information you have at EON.

I like some of the things that President Eden has said after all. I'm following my gut a bit more this game, as analysis really failed me and town last time, so I want to:

##VOTE lfishscl

P.S. I really don't like how ghug equated the damo situation to the dargo situation from last game because it was extensively discussed there how the wolf might want to help town, but scum might've left darg opened for eating... and I guess I just expect ghug to be savvy with roles, because he generally seems to be. So it seems a lazy handwave of, "oh, it's weird, but it doesn't matter, because we've seen it before," when in fact I think it's pretty bizarre the scum didn't jail a known PR over trying to pin the poisoner or the cop.

Wait, I acknowledged it happened last game but said that didn't make it any less weird. I wasn't normalizing it.