MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[TheMadMonarch]

Angry. Like yeah, sure, I'm a bit useless. But it seems a bit much. He got me to swear, which is something I do like twice a month.

What self-respecting Australian only swears twice a month?

##GM note: That would be me, except even less frequently than that. Last time I swore was in a mafia game and it looked something like #@$%

We're friends for a reason!

(strange it would be that...)

[Maniac]

You may all want to bookmark this post as it may prove more valuable after my demise.

I'm uniquely place to comment on what was a T v T wagon race, so here are my observations, working from the last voter backwards: These are only observation on the EOD not my thoughts generally.

Ghug: Ghug looks pretty good here. When Flum's death is all but confirmed ghug was still alive to the fact that Kak could reverse his bizarre Macca vote and then Flum could switch and tie it. So some town cred for the Ghugster. Killing flum over me could be scum motivated however. Scum want to kill PRs and want lots of VTs dead. IF scum view me as VT (and I'm making no more claims) then they may want to kill any other town but me to increase their chance of hitting a PR. They may also reasonably think that the WW might try to take a nibble out of me tonight, so why waste a daykill on me.

Kak: I just don't understand his vote so I won't pretend to

Damo: Looks like he is 'breaking the tie' but in actually fact he is allowing Flum to tie it if he wanted to. Either way, Damo looks townie here.

Maniac: Obviously a self pres vote and Maniac looks so good here. Eben more handsome than usual.

Bona: makes it Maniac 8, Flum 7. I just can't read this as anything other than misguided town.

Foodcoats: Votes flum to tie it 7-7. Good town players should decide between the leading wagons at EOD. He had choice between two Towns, so null

Chaqa: Moved from Maniac to Flum. I had sensed Chaqa was after a maniac kill most of the day, so this kind of surprised me. Thinking about it later, I think this move could well be scum motivated. They see two townies, one (me) they probably think is VT and will die tonight anyway and one who could be a PR and will reduce the overall body count. Scum points for Chaqa who I already read as scum.

Yav: Moves from Macca to Maniac making it Maniac 8, Flum 5. I see this as town Yav.

Damo: Switches from Flum to Maniac. Indecisive town.

Kak: Moves from Macca to Maniac - seems to make sense to move from waining wagon to one of the leaders.

Flum: Votes for flum. This is flum being crafty and definately this move shouldn't be banned. He was setting up a late switch, nothing more.

Hamilton: Flum to Maniac to tie it 5 v 5, looks legit here. Town points for Hamilton

Ghug: From Celaph who was a viable wagon to Maniac. Possibly protecting Celaph, but that would look very obvious later on and as Ghug has a clear scan he doesn't need to do this if he is Godfather.

Jamie: Moved from Macca to Maniac which is the start of Maniac's wagon becoming viable. Possibly protecting Celaph, maybe protecting Macca, maybe just doesn't like playing with me and that blinkers his thought processes. Not overly scum, but more scum than nul.

Chaqa: Macca to Maniac. Maybe trying to set up a Flum alternative that wasn't celaph?

Celaph: First voter on me. At the time scores were Flum 6, Celaph 4, Macca 4. I actually really like Celaph's vote here. The easy scum vote is to build Macca or Flum and try and protect himself. Town points for Celaph (although I still scum read him, it's enough to make me pause and reassess BB's read on Celaph)

[damo666]

Day 1s vote goes into 1 of the columns, similarly for day's 2 and 3.

???

Why are there some zeros and some blanks?

Zeros indicate no days in that category.
Blanks indicate dead.

Now, would you like me to feed you some breakfast?

[TheMadMonarch]

Day 1s vote goes into 1 of the columns, similarly for day's 2 and 3.

???

Why are there some zeros and some blanks?

Zeros indicate no days in that category.
Blanks indicate dead.

Now, would you like me to feed you some breakfast?

Why is demon all blanks then a zero?

Considering it's almost 9pm, unlikely, but thanks for the offer.

[dargorygel]

A note to all the guests presently perusing The Battle for Olympus... (sixteen!) If you are playing, cool. If you are visiting, PM me and find out more info about this delightful brainy game that seems designed for dip players.

[foodcoats]

Is there any amount of evidence to suggest this EoD was T v S? Does Maniac's self-preservation vote look scummier than town?

FWIW I jumped onto Flum even though I read Maniac as scummier because I read the people on Maniac’s wagon as being scum.

If I maintain my reads I have to believe Maniac was more likely town. But I personally feel very disrupted and feel a need to look at towncore and variously held assumptions instead, like darg’s claim, ghug’s pseudoclear, and my townreads of Chaqa and kgray.

[foodcoats]

It was total bullshit. He slipped his claim and claimed he mistyped cop as doc. People refused to make this a wagon. Like wtf

This take remains moronic, Bona. If you're going to doubt darg's claim, find a better reason.

Why is it moronic? Is it cause you won't be townclear anymore?

I don’t think it’s moronic and I’m willing to reevaluate my stance on darg and ghug given the game state. But I think that if darg is fakeclaiming a counter claim will be made by N4. So I’m also willing to sit on it.

[foodcoats]

You may all want to bookmark this post as it may prove more valuable after my demise.

I'm uniquely place to comment on what was a T v T wagon race, so here are my observations, working from the last voter backwards: These are only observation on the EOD not my thoughts generally.

Ghug: Ghug looks pretty good here. When Flum's death is all but confirmed ghug was still alive to the fact that Kak could reverse his bizarre Macca vote and then Flum could switch and tie it. So some town cred for the Ghugster. Killing flum over me could be scum motivated however. Scum want to kill PRs and want lots of VTs dead. IF scum view me as VT (and I'm making no more claims) then they may want to kill any other town but me to increase their chance of hitting a PR. They may also reasonably think that the WW might try to take a nibble out of me tonight, so why waste a daykill on me.

Kak: I just don't understand his vote so I won't pretend to

Damo: Looks like he is 'breaking the tie' but in actually fact he is allowing Flum to tie it if he wanted to. Either way, Damo looks townie here.

Maniac: Obviously a self pres vote and Maniac looks so good here. Eben more handsome than usual.

Bona: makes it Maniac 8, Flum 7. I just can't read this as anything other than misguided town.

Foodcoats: Votes flum to tie it 7-7. Good town players should decide between the leading wagons at EOD. He had choice between two Towns, so null

Chaqa: Moved from Maniac to Flum. I had sensed Chaqa was after a maniac kill most of the day, so this kind of surprised me. Thinking about it later, I think this move could well be scum motivated. They see two townies, one (me) they probably think is VT and will die tonight anyway and one who could be a PR and will reduce the overall body count. Scum points for Chaqa who I already read as scum.

Yav: Moves from Macca to Maniac making it Maniac 8, Flum 5. I see this as town Yav.

Damo: Switches from Flum to Maniac. Indecisive town.

Kak: Moves from Macca to Maniac - seems to make sense to move from waining wagon to one of the leaders.

Flum: Votes for flum. This is flum being crafty and definately this move shouldn't be banned. He was setting up a late switch, nothing more.

Hamilton: Flum to Maniac to tie it 5 v 5, looks legit here. Town points for Hamilton

Ghug: From Celaph who was a viable wagon to Maniac. Possibly protecting Celaph, but that would look very obvious later on and as Ghug has a clear scan he doesn't need to do this if he is Godfather.

Jamie: Moved from Macca to Maniac which is the start of Maniac's wagon becoming viable. Possibly protecting Celaph, maybe protecting Macca, maybe just doesn't like playing with me and that blinkers his thought processes. Not overly scum, but more scum than nul.

Chaqa: Macca to Maniac. Maybe trying to set up a Flum alternative that wasn't celaph?

Celaph: First voter on me. At the time scores were Flum 6, Celaph 4, Macca 4. I actually really like Celaph's vote here. The easy scum vote is to build Macca or Flum and try and protect himself. Town points for Celaph (although I still scum read him, it's enough to make me pause and reassess BB's read on Celaph)

So from all this, are you concluding that Chaqa is your top scum read?

[foodcoats]

I’m trying to theory craft a bit on how to win here. I feel like tomorrow’s wagons need to put some fresh meat into the ring or bring more active players under scrutiny. We need something like kgray versus Kakarroto or rdr versus yavu or HB versus Chaqa. If we go after Macca or Maniac I feel like we’re going to end up with still relatively limited information because these players have less activity and have been battling less with the field. (I would also love to see Celaph at the actual end of the day. He’s slipped twice now. But we can come around to him on D5.)

I’m throwing these names out more or less based on nothing. Right now these are all people I’ve been townreading. But the EOD made me feel we were TvT and I think we need something we can argue over more. We need action and high drama; we won’t catch the whole scum team by scraping the bottom of the barrel (...no offense to you scummy types).

To channel my inner worcej, we need to put some strong townies on the block so we can win as a town team in the long run. I think we can afford a higher risk set of wagons tomorrow. If we wait longer we might lose because we will get locked into townreading some strong players who may be strong wolves.

[Maniac]

You may all want to bookmark this post as it may prove more valuable after my demise.

<snip> These are only observation on the EOD not my thoughts generally.

<snip>

So from all this, are you concluding that Chaqa is your top scum read?

I'll prepare reads that include some of the above observations and other stuff before EON. I imagine that WW didn't take a nibble from me last night as they were concerned about the watcher, but nothing is stopping them having a go tonight. I don't think I'd make a good doc save either as (a) it wouldn't clear me of being scum even if it was successful and (b) I'm likely to die tomorrow or the following night anyway.

[Hamilton Brian]

Is there any amount of evidence to suggest this EoD was T v S? Does Maniac's self-preservation vote look scummier than town?

Self-preservation is never scummy.

On the face of it, probably not. So instead, consider scum!Maniac doing what scum!Maniac should do to continue mafia interests? I am always intrigued with the motivations.

[damo666]

???

Why are there some zeros and some blanks?

Zeros indicate no days in that category.
Blanks indicate dead.

Now, would you like me to feed you some breakfast?

Why is demon all blanks then a zero?

Considering it's almost 9pm, unlikely, but thanks for the offer.

The blanks because he was dead days 2 and 3. The x=zero relates to his own vote which wasn't on himself and 'wrong' because he was scum so column C I think. Irrelevant as dead scum in any event.

[Hamilton Brian]

Bona, interesting work with D3's VCA.

If the sum total of all 3 day's VCA were collated, what might it suggest? Do you expect the pool of scum to narrow? It might be something I try to play around with today but time might be a factor.

[Chaqa]

Oh, Maniac finally made a substantial post after nearly dying?

Let's just all start town reading him.

[Hamilton Brian]

This take remains moronic, Bona. If you're going to doubt darg's claim, find a better reason.

Why is it moronic? Is it cause you won't be townclear anymore?

I don’t think it’s moronic and I’m willing to reevaluate my stance on darg and ghug given the game state. But I think that if darg is fakeclaiming a counter claim will be made by N4. So I’m also willing to sit on it.

Why might we need to wait until N4? I can't find it now but I remember a comment someone made that if Darg survives the night (Night2?) we kill them the next day. I probably have my sequence/timeline wrong BUT it's something that has kind of been abandoned. I feel like it's better to resurrect sooner than later. We've operated under this veil of "Darg claims, town scan on Ghug" since...N2?

I think you're right to re-evaluate. That occured to me during D3.

[Hamilton Brian]

Maniac, good write-up but I feel you put names in when you were talking about someone else? Ghug is listed twice?

[Hamilton Brian]

To channel my inner worcej, we need to put some strong townies on the block so we can win as a town team in the long run. I think we can afford a higher risk set of wagons tomorrow. If we wait longer we might lose because we will get locked into townreading some strong players who may be strong wolves.

So let me understand this. You want to advocate T v T wagons to encourage debate. Wouldn't it be better to pump up the scumreads?

[Hamilton Brian]

Maniac, good write-up but I feel you put names in when you were talking about someone else? Ghug is listed twice?

And now my other question is, "How much buddying are you hoping to accomplish with that output?"

[Maniac]

My scum reads:

Celaph: My scum read is primarily based on brainbomb's observations. At the end of N1 Watcher!Brainbomb said "If I die honor my reads folks kill celaph, bona, and mostly ignore everything else" Now if BB would've died N1, then he couldn't possibly have had any info to reinforce his read. But throughout D2 Watcher!Brainbomb keeps coming back to Celaph. His first D2 contribution was "[][]vote Celaph" Watcher!Brainbomb knew he's die at some point and we'd re-read him with knowledge of his role. This, to me, is clear he saw Celaph up to no good. I'm not 100% sure how he could know this, but he might have seen him as a driver. To re-inforce the point here are some sample quotes.

"Ok 100%, 100% 100% 100%" in response to kak asking if he should shoot Celaph.

"I support shooting bona, celaph, foodcoats or macca" p118

"celaph there is a reason I think you are scum...." p121

"I think celaph told me in at least 3 ways he is scum" p132

"celaph is probably janitor or driver. so I expect theyll attempt some sort of pr claim" p135

"I rest my case on celaph,and my scumreads now include kgray. that is all.
scumteam celaph kgray fluminator jamie/chaqa/rdrivera" p142

"I am the werewolf. ... I chose instead to go after celaph" p165

----end of Celaph case that relates to Watcher!Brainbomb telling us he has some kind of mechanical reason that Celaph is scum----

On D3 six people voted for Celaph: Town!Flum, Food, Ghug, Hamilton, Kgray and Maniac. He was one of the top wagons for a good portion of the day and then it disappeared. I don't think any of these people look scummy when they move off Celaph.

Celaph doesn't contribute much to D3. Perhaps he was in a hole and was careful not to keep digging. Perhaps he trusted his scum buddies to come good and find another viable target. With this in mind the first voters on Macca were, Kak, Jamie, Chaqa, damo and food. Going after lurkers is so easy for scum and I think Jamie and Chaqa could be the scum team driving this Celaph alternative wagon.

Celaph's voting D3 doesn't look bad. I actually like his vote to start my wagon.

On balance, I strongly scum read Celaph

[Jamiet99uk]

@Maniac: You have exactly one scumread, yes?

Does this mean you have magically stopped scumreading me?