MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[Hamilton Brian]

I still townread you but I'm sus of the way you're handling the Macca thing.

How I'm handling the Macca thing?

[kgray]

I don't approve Macca kill, they won't be much informative and we have better candidates. Also they doesn't show up after a wagon is formed against them so they are more likely to be town I guess. I don't want to townread Macca because I have no reason, but should we really kill a lurker?

I agree with your first line, though I would rather just get a sub if they don't participate. That said, they've said they've caught up so I'm hoping that they contribute later today. That said, what do you mean they didn't show up after a wagon formed against them? The way that you are soft defending them without paying attention feels icky.

I retract this arguement because Macca showed up! I was saying that mafia would be more likely to come back to defend themselves than town.
Town doesn't have a reason to lurk without something about real life. Even if they lurk, it's unlikely that they will stop lurking when they are in danger.
But the mafia, in contrast, would start defending themselves if they are being voted.
I can see the scenario where Macca is town because they were clear about their absence. However it's kind of suspicious that they immediately came back after a wagon is formed. I made that post in thr quote because I didn't see Macca last night.

And sorry about the pronoun confusion, I'm not used to it.

Why do you think scum is more likely to show up when they're a wagon than town? I don't want to be killed no matter what my alignment is. Why would town care less?

[kgray]

I don't scumread you because your vote D1 is bizarre, in fact, we were on the same wagon. I scumread you because you voted for HB when RHK/HB were 4/2 nd with your vote this became 4/3. Ypu created wn alternative for RHK, who is confirmed scum.
If my reason was only who you voted for, I would scumread myself as well :/

What do you think of hamilton then? also mafia? D1 he did the same thing as rd so it was 4-3-3-3 (demon - myself - hamilton - brain), in fact, by your logic, rd voted mafia (since only mafia gives more alternatives, right?)

I scumread rdrivera and HB separately. If HB is scum, turning him into an alternative against Demon doesn't make any sense so rivera would be much safer, I would even put him on my townreads list.

Right, but Hamilton voted for brain making a 3-vote counter wagon to Demon the same way that Rivera did by voting Hamilton. Why do you find Rivera scummier than Hamilton for their D1 votes?

[Chaqa]

I don't understand the question here

What's at least one thing that you would point to about your play so far that is incontrovertibly proof of your town membership?

I don’t really have any? No one does. That isn’t how this game works outside mechanical clears

[kgray]

What are people thinking about Jamie this morning? I have some thoughts, but I don't want to shade people's answers. I will respond to any comments in a few hours.

I think he's going over-the-top on Macca to make it seem like he cares more about this game than he does, probably because he's been called out for hiding.

[Hamilton Brian]

I have certainly walked back my opinion that Jamie is town.

[foodcoats]

If Vecna gave someone an item that isn't a gun, he's as dead to me as he is to this game.

I wonder if the fact that various experienced players generally expect that Vecna would've given out the gun, and that in theory he was not RB'd, and that the gun has not been fired, means we could look at Vecna's townreads and identify someone who might have received it and deduce that they might be scum.

1. yavuzovic
2. bonatogether
3. ghug
4. macca573
5. rdrivera2005
6. Celaph
7. Vecna
8. damo666
9. Hamilton Brian
10. belCavendishNY
11. worcej
12. kgray
13. Chaqa
14. Maniac
15. brainbomb
16. Dargorygel
17. Kakarroto
18. foodcoats
19. DemonRHK
20. Jamiet99uk

Feeling decent about this, in different shades of green

I did not receive a gun, so in theory it would mean Kak, Chaq, rdr, ghug or yavu is scum with a gun. (In this grand conspiratorial theory against which I hold many reservations, just batting about the ideas. Also possible of course that worcej or brain died with a gun, but I really doubt that - we know worcej was observing his wagon and online before his DK and I doubt brain would holster.)

I could see town with a gun choosing to holster for a number of reasons. Is there any reason your discounting the possibility here?

It's possible, but I think the people who might have received a gun would also be likely to fire it if they were town.

[foodcoats]

You've asked me a few questions about lines of thinking that I've abandoned unfortunately.

Does that mean you forgot them or you realized they were inaccurate?

I realized I no longer believed in them once I had done more reading and thinking.

[rdrivera2005]

I'm not fond of this connection formed between damo and macca.

Going now to drink coffee.

Do you think that scum Macca would so openly follow scum Damo like that? I agree that they're both sus to some extent independently, but Damo's looked townier recently and I kinda doubt that scum Macca would be that obvious.

Agree with this post. I can see scum Macca following town Damo, but not scum Macca following scum Damo.

Anyway, this isn't scummy from Macca.

[foodcoats]

@HB, yesterday you indicated a desire to leave my wagon, yet you haven't at this point. Has your read on the matter changed or can you otherwise talk about your perception?

Just on it to be somewhere for right now. I had a First Post of the Morning that was a reply to ghug from last night where you might find some details. I do think my thought process around role blocks was too precocious and I feel like I've had to walk it back (scum somewhere in Darg, Damo, Jamie, Rivera).

I am troubled by the three that shared the decisive wagons, so that's where I've tried to dig today (that's Chaqa, kgray, Maniac).

What do you mean by decisive wagons? The final DK vote? One was a mafia and one was a town. What kind of tricksiness would you be worried about and think you could infer specifically from those three sharing space on the final wagons?

[rdrivera2005]

I wonder if the fact that various experienced players generally expect that Vecna would've given out the gun, and that in theory he was not RB'd, and that the gun has not been fired, means we could look at Vecna's townreads and identify someone who might have received it and deduce that they might be scum.



I did not receive a gun, so in theory it would mean Kak, Chaq, rdr, ghug or yavu is scum with a gun. (In this grand conspiratorial theory against which I hold many reservations, just batting about the ideas. Also possible of course that worcej or brain died with a gun, but I really doubt that - we know worcej was observing his wagon and online before his DK and I doubt brain would holster.)

I could see town with a gun choosing to holster for a number of reasons. Is there any reason your discounting the possibility here?

It's possible, but I think the people who might have received a gun would also be likely to fire it if they were town.

Not really. If you don't have a strong confidence on your reads, waiting for a confirmed scum to shoot is a reasonable play.

[Hamilton Brian]

What do you mean by decisive wagons? The final DK vote? One was a mafia and one was a town. What kind of tricksiness would you be worried about and think you could infer specifically from those three sharing space on the final wagons?

I'll come back to this but I am digging into something else right now.

[foodcoats]

I'll largely be in and out from now through EOD. My goal will be vote within that group of 4 I raised before, with the possibility I would jump on another if none of those wagons materialize and I have to make a choice, e.g. between someone I read town and someone I read as null.

... I guess that all seems obvious, but I was under the same gun during the last EOD and I couldn't make up my mind between bona and worcej, though since I've reasoned through it I should've voted bona, even though I still would not have liked it.

[kgray]

There are 4 scum left. That's only 2.

They are the half of the scum team then lol
But please consider this. They don't have scumreads on each other. Rivera said he thinks that Macca should be eliminated then voted for Flum. They didn't vote for each other not a single time. Also non of them were on RHK on Day 1.
I'm usually mean to myself for not being a good town player but I'm more confident about this.
##vote Macca because they're more likely to be eliminated and it will be safer to kill Rivera once Macca flips scum

Don't be hard on yourself about your abilities - you have actually done a bunch of work to convince me that rdr is possibly scum. I still need to iso RDR properly and come to my own conclusions, just low on time. But I feel pretty good that you are at least town, and that rdr may be scum, based on your interactions.

This creeps me out so much.

[kgray]

The wagon on me smells like bullshit but I'm working until deadline.
##vote celaph

Something is smelly out of kgray/celaph/chaqa/rdr

You never answered my question about why you were feeling better about celaph. Why are you back to feeling worse about him now?

[Hamilton Brian]

What do you mean by decisive wagons? The final DK vote? One was a mafia and one was a town. What kind of tricksiness would you be worried about and think you could infer specifically from those three sharing space on the final wagons?

I'll come back to this but I am digging into something else right now.

Never mind, I don't want to forget this. My peanut brain says the three landed on the same wagon; yes, one flipped scum and the other didn't. If you compare how D1 ended...it was pretty hectic and full of movement. Panic driven and bussing? D2? Seemed relatively more "chill" if I recall. Not true, going back to it, there were a couple of minutes left. I helped make Worcej a lead wagon with about 20 minutes to go. Ghug stepped off to do some flattening. With 2 minutes to go, Chaqa makes the move to make Worcej the day's choice.

Maybe the remaining scum team includes Chaqa, Flum, and Maniac.

At this stage I'd be good with a DK of one of those 3 and potentially Jamie. I am still trying to dig through kgray's output.

[Hamilton Brian]

##Vote Flum

[Chaqa]

What do you mean by decisive wagons? The final DK vote? One was a mafia and one was a town. What kind of tricksiness would you be worried about and think you could infer specifically from those three sharing space on the final wagons?

I'll come back to this but I am digging into something else right now.

Never mind, I don't want to forget this. My peanut brain says the three landed on the same wagon; yes, one flipped scum and the other didn't. If you compare how D1 ended...it was pretty hectic and full of movement. Panic driven and bussing? D2? Seemed relatively more "chill" if I recall. Not true, going back to it, there were a couple of minutes left. I helped make Worcej a lead wagon with about 20 minutes to go. Ghug stepped off to do some flattening. With 2 minutes to go, Chaqa makes the move to make Worcej the day's choice.

Maybe the remaining scum team includes Chaqa, Flum, and Maniac.

At this stage I'd be good with a DK of one of those 3 and potentially Jamie. I am still trying to dig through kgray's output.

If anything Day 1 was calm and Day 2 was hectic.

I was pretty against all of the Day 2 options. I was pushing hard on Maniac and I've been calling out Flum all game. You're really starting to make me doubt you're towniness, and I think maybe now you were the 2nd scum up on the block Day 1, probably a more important role than Stalker.

So I'm gonna add HB to my list of likely scum.

[Chaqa]

Oh and then you go and vote for Flum... which I do like.

Sigh.

HB, y u like this

[Hamilton Brian]

The only thing that causes me hesitation in my reading of you, or actually relying on brain's read of you, is that D1 brain practically loved you. Maybe too strong, but then what happened? Did brain shift, and why? That's what my dig was; I had forgotten in the reply to foodcoats but just remembered.