MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[Hamilton Brian]

Quite amusing we have a 5 strong worcej wagon with none of rdr celaph or myself on it.

What do you make of this fact and why did you choose to name these 3 people? Bona had the same number of votes as you while Maniac had just been the leading wagon and was voting worcej?

What's your conclusion why Damo included those names that weren't on the Worcej wagon?

Why might I phrase it like that? Focus attention somewhere else, perhaps?

[kgray]

viewtopic.php?p=236393#p236393

What about that bothers you?

kgray/celaph scumteam bothers me tbh

It's a paragraph of nothing but crud. Which posts did you like? How is his play different from before being outed scum that one game?

How is saying I think he's in his normal town range crud? Or townreading him for joining me on the scum wagon? I don't have time to go back through his posts right now. Maybe I'll do that later tonight.

[Hamilton Brian]

who said he didn't? maybe he was saved. Maybe he wasn't town but is mafia. Maybe he is werewolf.

I think the ww did take a shot at Maniac, so either:
a) he got doc saved
b) he's not VT who's really eager to make everyone think he is

Why are you so confident werewolf would try for Maniac?

Makes me wonder if there is value in each of us compiling a list of "the werewolf should..." and send it off EOD3.

[rdrivera2005]

Fine. I'm still not seeing what I think of as scum!celaph, but I admit he's been underwhelming.

##vote celaph

Kgray, are you saying you’re voting celaph for being underwhelming town? Do you have no better place to vote than underwhelming town?

I *hope* he's underwhelming town, after I fought for him so much yesterday. But I'm not sure, because it feels a bit like he was happy to sit back and let that happen, which worries me.

I'm not passionate about any scumreads anymore...

I think Bona's unjustified defense of worcej is extremely scummy, but he kept his cool at EOD and didn't vote worcej to save himself. I've townread scum for doing similar things before, but with 2 minutes left it's pretty compelling. If he'd answer my question about worcej's D1 VCA then I'd probably check him off my list forever.... But it's still bugging me lol

Yav is skeezing me out a little. His irrelevant vote for Maniac yesterday and then chastising of Chaqa feels like someone who didn't want to get their hands dirty on a town wagon, and he was a Hamilton voter D1. The way he's scumreading Rivera for his Hamilton vote has been bothering me, because as much as Yav explains himself, I'm not seeing the difference between Rivera making Hamilton a viable wagon when Demon was leading and yav not leaving Hamilton for Demon.

Jamie's obsession with Maniac reminds me of when he was "tunneling" on his scumbuddy ghug a few games ago. I don't know if it makes sense for him and Maniac to be partners, but it's kind of the only read Jamie has given and it feels like he's hiding behind it. His ranting about darg and this recent push for Macca I think are standard Jamie things and are NAI, but overall he feels more reserved than he normally does as town. Also, regarding the janitor thing: I don't think it makes sense for scum to Janitor brain, because his Watcher soft was so obvious. I know that if brain was Janitor'd and then someone claimed Watcher, I'd be really suspicious of that claim. So while Rivera obviously *could* be the Janitor, I think it's more likely that scum tried to Janitor Vecna and got blocked, so I think Jamie or Damo is more likely.

I'm probably the most suspicious of Flum, though. I get what he was saying about Rivera just watching at EOD yesterday (and I didn't like how Rivera called me out for being on a "non-momentum" wagon instead of saving him, when he wasn't even voting to save himself), but I really didn't like Flum's refusal to vote for a relevant wagon. He was just actively not participating. And then his last-minute post complaining about not being able to break a tie was just... ick. Also, both Flum and Chaqa have been playing Mafia for a lot longer than me and I know how the Watcher works, so I think Flum's scumread of Chaqa for understanding that mechanic is fake. I also didn't like his lazy claim that I was near-obvtown for my D1 Demon vote. And celaph was also a huge part of that vote, and Flum ignoring that to sheep brain's read just seems like opportunistic piggy-backing off of town.

So yeah, ##vote flum.

Ok. Kgray is officially back to my townreads. I had the same bad feeling about Flum, his pushes are just lazy and unjustified.

If Yav doesn't get traction I am willing to vote Flum to have a counter to Macca (which I also think is a good wagon today as we can't have him alive doing absolutely nothing other then giving excuses).

[Hamilton Brian]

DUDE are you dense

No, you are. He could have watched someone else and seen celaph.

Flum's argument was specifically based on brain claiming he visited celaph, though. He quoted where he thought brain was claiming that.

Has this argument been discounted and trashed?

[Hamilton Brian]

I think the ww did take a shot at Maniac, so either:
a) he got doc saved
b) he's not VT who's really eager to make everyone think he is

Why are you so confident werewolf would try for Maniac?

VT is most likely and it was plausible.

Are you saying it would have been more meaningful for WW to go after presumed VT, with Maniac identifying themselves as VT? Just not sure I am clear on what you're saying here.

[Hamilton Brian]

Brain couldn't have been stalked, we killed the stalker D1.

Did Yav forget this fact? I get coming up with a conspiracy but I also think one has to have the proper parts in play. Forgetfulness or convenience? Scummy?

[Jamiet99uk]

No, you are. He could have watched someone else and seen celaph.

Flum's argument was specifically based on brain claiming he visited celaph, though. He quoted where he thought brain was claiming that.

Has this argument been discounted and trashed?

Yes, Flum's original erroneous position has been pointed out as being erroneous, which you should understand by now.

[Hamilton Brian]

Devolving into "feels like scum!someone," keeps us off the investigating.

Focusing on it derails town.

Scum would also avoid making me a wagon. I think i have history on my side there. Kind of clears Yav. Ghug I expect better from.

Why would scum avoid making you a wagon? I've gone after you as a miskill target as scum.

Let me walk that back. In a general sense, it's good for scum to keep me around since my solving skills are brutal. Alternatively, I'm a good wagon if one of their PRs gets some wagon traction. SO I guess it cuts both ways. Like RDR suggested a couple of days ago, scum are "really" clamouring to get rid of me, when I said there were 3 scum on my wagon.

[Hamilton Brian]

Okay but now it feels like you're making up for the overconfidence that ghug just called you on.

I personally don't see the overconfidence. Differences in perception.

[Hamilton Brian]

Yeah, I repeat my questions when people don't answer them. As you know, since I've asked you 5 times now why you thought worcej's D1 vote for Hamilton was towny.

Bona, did you have an answer for this yet? Certainly you've had some time to develop one. I don't think the "Worcej was town, town voted for HB, therefore HB is scum" argument will work even though Worcej flipped.

[kgray]

Jamie's obsession with Maniac reminds me of when he was "tunneling" on his scumbuddy ghug a few games ago. I don't know if it makes sense for him and Maniac to be partners, but it's kind of the only read Jamie has given and it feels like he's hiding behind it. His ranting about darg and this recent push for Macca I think are standard Jamie things and are NAI, but overall he feels more reserved than he normally does as town. Also, regarding the janitor thing: I don't think it makes sense for scum to Janitor brain, because his Watcher soft was so obvious. I know that if brain was Janitor'd and then someone claimed Watcher, I'd be really suspicious of that claim. So while Rivera obviously *could* be the Janitor, I think it's more likely that scum tried to Janitor Vecna and got blocked, so I think Jamie or Damo is more likely.

I have a number of things to say about this:

It is not entirely accurate to say I have only given a read on Maniac. In particular my "rant" about Darg was accompanied by a scumread on him, which I even backed up with a vote. I also declared a townread on Celaph yesterday.

Currently I also scumread Bonatogether. I think his constant thing of voting the second or third wagon to try to make two close wagons al the time, kinda looks like him trying to mimic something he previously did as town.

I do need to update my reads on other people, that's fair enough.

If I was the Janitor, you think the Mafia sent two people to Vecna but didn't attempt to roleblock him?

Why, as Janitor, having been roleblocked and knowing I was the Town Roleblocker's target (because I would know who my own team's RB target was), would I claim the roleblock?

Okay, I'll reread you later today too. But I do think you're holding back a lot more than normal, and the Maniac focus is most of what I remember off the top of my head, which is why it feels like you're hiding behind it.

If they knew Vecna would die (maybe there's no doctor), then they wouldn't necessarily need to RB him, right? It just worked out that his PR was the one that could still do something N1 if he died. But even if Vecna was RB'd, then either you or damo has to be scum, and I'm not sure why you couldn't be Janitor who was RB'd by town? Am I missing a mechanic?

I think if scum was RB'd by town, they'd have to claim. It would be really suspicious not to.

[Hamilton Brian]

Fine. I'm still not seeing what I think of as scum!celaph, but I admit he's been underwhelming.

##vote celaph

I don't know if I've seen this sort of ...ambivalence? Not sure of the word I am looking for, but it just seems like you were resistant and dragged to this conclusion on Celaph.

Anyway, I see you're on Flum and I haven't caught on to why you switched.

[Bonatogether]

I think you and celaph are both scum. Celaph is scum because of bad D1 VCA, fluffy n1 posts, kinda sorta scumslip, and being on at EoD2 and not doing anything.

You have done a lot of kinda weird defenses of him. Weirdly defending scum!celaph makes you look very scum.

Ergo, kgray/celaph scumteam

Alright Bona, you absolutely have to explain to me how worcej's D1 voting is townier than celaph's, who helped mobilize the Demon wagon. I will literally never get over this if you can't.

Also, I defended Celaph a fair bit on D2, yet Bona has never mentioned this.

Your defenses were townier

[Bonatogether]

Alright Bona, you absolutely have to explain to me how worcej's D1 voting is townier than celaph's, who helped mobilize the Demon wagon. I will literally never get over this if you can't.

Also, I defended Celaph a fair bit on D2, yet Bona has never mentioned this.

Your defenses were townier

I'm also not trying to prove you are scum when I'm explaining my scumread of kgray

[Bonatogether]

Why are you so confident werewolf would try for Maniac?

VT is most likely and it was plausible.

Are you saying it would have been more meaningful for WW to go after presumed VT, with Maniac identifying themselves as VT? Just not sure I am clear on what you're saying here.

If I were ww, I would have done it.

[Bonatogether]

Yeah, I repeat my questions when people don't answer them. As you know, since I've asked you 5 times now why you thought worcej's D1 vote for Hamilton was towny.

Bona, did you have an answer for this yet? Certainly you've had some time to develop one. I don't think the "Worcej was town, town voted for HB, therefore HB is scum" argument will work even though Worcej flipped.

I never said this?

[Hamilton Brian]

OK but if brain had anything this specific he would have yelled it so we can dismiss it.

So brain didn't have anything hard so at best the intellectual knots we're wrapping ourselves up in a fruitless exercises?

[ghug]

If brain had watched Vecna he would have shouted from the rooftops.

Agree. Even if he saw nothing. Because if he watches Vecna, sees nobody visit, but Vecna dies, then he 100% knows it was the Ninja.

You think he would have claimed to tell us there's a ninja?

[ghug]

We lost brain, which I'm a bit sad about. He's always fun to play with.

Working my way through, but it's ANZAC day here is Australia, so I've had quite a busy morning.

STOP MAKING EXCUSES
You have done nothing all game but make excuses.
Participate properly today or be killed.

Macca did tell us when they signed up that they'd have low availability the first few days.