MAFIA 66: The Battle for Olympus - Game Thread [hidden]

[brainbomb]

since you are bringing it up damo, I thought the best play for town roleblocker would be to aim at self.

youve made a few comments that make me feel more comfortable saying it

[brainbomb]

you dont have to answer that by the way.

also maniac as the alien did more, was funny, and a bit more involved than this with a much smaller crew to work alongside. (if hes even scum)

it seems like if maniac is scum, the scumteam is low energy and feels like theyve lost

[Hamilton Brian]

ISO for Vecna to see who they might have been shading:
Chaqa(but also acknowledged Chaqa’s role in the Demon wagon,
advocated killing Darg if survives the night but also equated Darg’s performance to Demon’s,
brainbomb,
kgray,
jamie,
maniac,
Macca.

someone made a comment about Vecna’s coloured list (don’t remember who),

What's missing in this is a deeper dive for context.

Do you honestly think Vecna died because he was shading known scum?

It's something to run with. It's the best I've got right now because I'm not seeing anything else slapping me upside the head yelling "Here is proof."

[celaph]

Treat as town for now:
ghug — Assuming Darg is town, ghug is very likely town and we should deal with any potential gf/ww later down the line as necessary. Even if Darg is scum there is a fair chance that ghug is town.
Darg — Short term, should be treated as a cop.

Town read:
kak — If this is scum kak, it’s a clean game so far. He handled the gun claim really naturally. That said, if that continues to be the best thing he’s done this spot is probably worth another look. His reads haven’t been all there and his D1 was lackluster. I would also like to see more come from his gun claim than just making himself look good.
kgray — This feels like normal town kgray. She’s succinct, precise, asking the right questions. She needs to start giving herself more credit for her play. gl town and sheep kgray. :)
Chaqa — Maybe I just like that he’s been defending me, but I’ve been surprised by how reasonable he’s felt. He’s made some good arguments regarding town reading kak and while I disagree with his early suspicion of darg today, I feel like it was coming from a reasonable perspective. My only concern is that the way he’s been defending the Demon voters reminds me of how he defended the teacon voters in M62.

Town lean:
Brain — Brain’s posted a lot of content of varying quality and has clearly put a lot of time into the game. What concerns me is how imprecise he’s been at times like how his justification for initially voting kak was poor. That said, in fairness to Brain I don’t think kak was a bad wagon D1 and his probably looks worse in hindsight as kak has since improved.
Food — I’m liking food in the same way I liked scum Bona in that they are both acting carefree and weird, but also in a way that I absolutely don’t expect scum to act. I was more suspicious here when he was pushing against Darg as that felt anti-town, but I’m liking his mindset more now. ghug’s had quite reasonable views of him so far.
Flum — My immediate impressions on the way he's jumping from one sus to the next feel like natural town Flum. He’s a poor kill today.
Bona — As kgray has noted, he’s been attentive and precise. He’s asked good questions and challenged people well. He was on the right wagon D1. My only concern with him is how simple his susses and reads have been. D1 it felt that he townread the people that agreed with him and/or criticized brain. D2 he’s made his vote today about clearing me.

Null:
Worcej — It doesn’t feel like he’s playing in a way that is particularly pro-town or sharp. For better or for worse, his argument with kgray reminded me of M62. I just don’t know if that is particularly alignment indicative.
Yavu + Macca — Very little from either of them. The one thing that bothers me about Yavu is that of his 5 posts today, 1 is voting for Maniac and another is defending him. That said, given that it sounds like he’s sick he can hopefully get a replacement.
Rdr — Coming off a game where I agreed heavily with this man, I don’t feel like we’re on the same wavelength at the moment. I remember nothing from his D1 though he’s had a couple nice posts this day. In general, it’s hard to read him with all the inactivity.
Jamie — Remarkably forgettable.

Scum lean:
HB — He’s been more aggressive than I expected particularly with rdr. I’ve found their interactions as a whole off-putting, but of the two I prefer rdr at the moment. His comment on demon near EoD1 didn’t really push him and he ended up on brain.
Maniac -- I see why Maniac is scummy, but it feels like this wagon is motived equally by Maniac’s inactivity. Not a sexy wagon by any stretch of the imagination.
Damo — I posted more in depth about Damo and my concerns with him earlier.

[Hamilton Brian]

also I wanted opinions, especially from the people that didn't involve themself before, but every opinion I could put into the sunlight would be good for town information. I might've not communicated that in a good enough way. Sorry.

I'm interested in if you've run a play like that before that's yielded results for town. On a scale of 1 to 10, with 10 being great impact for town, how would you say this worked out?

I am still catching up but at this point I don't think it's yielded anything.

[brainbomb]

Oh by the way, I hardclaim VT and don’t mind dying. I seem to be better at solving the puzzle than convincing others that I’m right so killing me and then following my reads isn’t the worst play ever for town.

If I do die also consider who is voting for me. I haven’t been active and that allows lazy scum to jump on the ‘maniac is lazy lurking scum’ bandwagon. Treat my killers with utmost caution.

Maniac claimed VT so if he ends up the elim he is dying without even bothering to potentially out a town pr or werewolf. so assuming maniac is scum hes gambitting that we spare him for vt claim since hes doing less harm

if maniac is the ww then hes actively helping town at present and wants to hunt and likely isnt a threat to us yet

if maniac is town then he is offering himself to be eaten by the werewolf which provides bait that a binocular user or a watcher could look at maniac tonight and possibly catch the furball

I like the idea of keeping maniac alive as a meatwad for the wolfy wolf

[celaph]

This is interesting from Maniac. He has a decent point about one busser only. Also the way Maniac is acting, in particular seeming kind of excited and specifically entering saying he “had a reason to waste time” playing this game and is now kind of walking away and not fighting for his spot and says he DOESN’T have time, makes me think he is the WW. It seems like a particularly hard 3P that is actually just designed to prevent massclaim and I totally could see someone being frustrated by drawing it.

In my analysis then celaph was the busser, although he probably didn’t intend to and got stuck. damo is weirdly lurky, and in general I’m finding the conversation for the last few hours feels like town arguing with itself, so I’d say mafia is predominantly in lurk mode, possibly lacking confidence. damo is one other scum. HB would be a third, he’s said weird wishy washy nothingness. Not sure on the last.

Can you elaborate on why you think I was bussing, in particular why you think I didn't intend to and got stuck?

I wrote about it in another post.

Can you tell me, do you think that the Demon wagon was all town? Or do you scumread anyone on there?

Vote and show me your cards. You only made one vote yesterday. Will it be the same today? Your vote is a tool, you know...

I find it unlikely that no scum found their way onto the wagon, but that doesn't make me want to kill on wagon at the moment. Maniac looks scummy for reasons entirely separate for his vote.

##vote Damo is where I'm at right now.

[Hamilton Brian]

Let's revisit this HB.

What argument am I creating in justifying Vecna's NK?
Perhaps I worded it incorrectly but I thought you were chalking the kill of Vecna up to the thought that scum automatically target the "good" solver. I just think that's too easy a mindset to operate under.

What was my 'fakey' entrance into D2?
It felt off to me. It felt trite and you were saying something just for the benefit of saying something.

What other reasons, if you have any, do you scum read me for?
That's the damnedest thing. I don't. However, my gut has had you, Maniac, and Yav pegged as scum since Day 1. It's the evidence that I don't have and I'm struggling to find it. That doesn't mean I am not looking at others. It's just the gut is driving me while the head is still working.

[brainbomb]

Scum lean:
HB — He’s been more aggressive than I expected particularly with rdr. I’ve found their interactions as a whole off-putting, but of the two I prefer rdr at the moment. His comment on demon near EoD1 didn’t really push him and he ended up on brain.
Maniac -- I see why Maniac is scummy, but it feels like this wagon is motived equally by Maniac’s inactivity. Not a sexy wagon by any stretch of the imagination.
Damo — I posted more in depth about Damo and my concerns with him earlier.

for every reason you gave to scumread these people
you excused them as well
this is hedging

[brainbomb]

why is HB a scumlean if you prefer rdriv at the moment, and riv isnt even in your scumleans.

It just looks very much like you dont have actual reasons for your scumreads and you dont wanna upset the people you listed as scum so youve excused them all or told us to go find why. which you used to give us linky links too

[damo666]

Treat as town for now:
ghug — Assuming Darg is town, ghug is very likely town and we should deal with any potential gf/ww later down the line as necessary. Even if Darg is scum there is a fair chance that ghug is town.
Darg — Short term, should be treated as a cop.

Town read:
kak — If this is scum kak, it’s a clean game so far. He handled the gun claim really naturally. That said, if that continues to be the best thing he’s done this spot is probably worth another look. His reads haven’t been all there and his D1 was lackluster. I would also like to see more come from his gun claim than just making himself look good.
kgray — This feels like normal town kgray. She’s succinct, precise, asking the right questions. She needs to start giving herself more credit for her play. gl town and sheep kgray. :)
Chaqa — Maybe I just like that he’s been defending me, but I’ve been surprised by how reasonable he’s felt. He’s made some good arguments regarding town reading kak and while I disagree with his early suspicion of darg today, I feel like it was coming from a reasonable perspective. My only concern is that the way he’s been defending the Demon voters reminds me of how he defended the teacon voters in M62.

Town lean:
Brain — Brain’s posted a lot of content of varying quality and has clearly put a lot of time into the game. What concerns me is how imprecise he’s been at times like how his justification for initially voting kak was poor. That said, in fairness to Brain I don’t think kak was a bad wagon D1 and his probably looks worse in hindsight as kak has since improved.
Food — I’m liking food in the same way I liked scum Bona in that they are both acting carefree and weird, but also in a way that I absolutely don’t expect scum to act. I was more suspicious here when he was pushing against Darg as that felt anti-town, but I’m liking his mindset more now. ghug’s had quite reasonable views of him so far.
Flum — My immediate impressions on the way he's jumping from one sus to the next feel like natural town Flum. He’s a poor kill today.
Bona — As kgray has noted, he’s been attentive and precise. He’s asked good questions and challenged people well. He was on the right wagon D1. My only concern with him is how simple his susses and reads have been. D1 it felt that he townread the people that agreed with him and/or criticized brain. D2 he’s made his vote today about clearing me.

Null:
Worcej — It doesn’t feel like he’s playing in a way that is particularly pro-town or sharp. For better or for worse, his argument with kgray reminded me of M62. I just don’t know if that is particularly alignment indicative.
Yavu + Macca — Very little from either of them. The one thing that bothers me about Yavu is that of his 5 posts today, 1 is voting for Maniac and another is defending him. That said, given that it sounds like he’s sick he can hopefully get a replacement.
Rdr — Coming off a game where I agreed heavily with this man, I don’t feel like we’re on the same wavelength at the moment. I remember nothing from his D1 though he’s had a couple nice posts this day. In general, it’s hard to read him with all the inactivity.
Jamie — Remarkably forgettable.

Scum lean:
HB — He’s been more aggressive than I expected particularly with rdr. I’ve found their interactions as a whole off-putting, but of the two I prefer rdr at the moment. His comment on demon near EoD1 didn’t really push him and he ended up on brain.
Maniac -- I see why Maniac is scummy, but it feels like this wagon is motived equally by Maniac’s inactivity. Not a sexy wagon by any stretch of the imagination.
Damo — I posted more in depth about Damo and my concerns with him earlier.

Beautiful oxymoron

[dargorygel]

I see no reason for scum to NOT rb the kill. Anyone, convince me otherwise. From a perspective inside the QT. The only reasons given so far are basically, “well, they MIGHT not…”
Some things about damo: (I’m writing this on my phone, in the back of a van fulla students. Forgive my formatting and my ‘page reference’ instead of cut-and-paste.)
Page 81 he deduces which setups are out… based on his rb. His reveal is kinda odd.
Page 106… brain makes a comment with a brain-hint… and damo draws attention to it.
He displays appropriate pressure on my claimthing
Page 109… he throws an unexplained vote on yav, and adds the potential of a rivera vote. Not unlike damo. But not helpful. He later is questioned about rivera, and explains, “POE principally.”
Page 110… he gives a list of six. Then adds two minutes later another candidate. This tastes a little townie, but also fakable.
He also condemns those who are voting for people not on his list. This isn’t necessarily AI. But it seems kind of… closed?
In pages 109? To 111 he has some interaction with/about flum, food, kgray, bona, HB, and me. Seems involved.
On page 110 he also presents a brief PSA about welsh tradition. +1
He votes kak on page 121.
On page 122 he interacts with Jamie about kak-votes.
And then on page 123, he joke-interacts with flum, brain, and Jamie. He votes maniac without any explanation. And goes to bed.
On page 131 he changes back to rdr, and has some discussion about the gunshot escapade. He doesn’t include HIS rollblock in his comments about whether or not the gun was given/fired.
On page 132 he interacts with/about celaph/chaqa/worcej/food and himself.
His kill list remains fairly consistent, if unexplained.
My biggest concern is: the claim, and his unexplained votes. The lack of explanation is pretty much normal damo, iircl.
It seems to me… that if a character were RBed, along with one other (Jamie) AND along with the possibility (likelihood, imo) of Vecna being RBed, that character would be interested in pursuing this topic. He DOES seem to exert some shade on Jamie, but not about this issue. But if he was sent into the trenches with the “claim RB” assignment… he would not want to draw attention to it.
I have been town reading Jamie. He has been in and out of meta. But I lean more suspiciously atm against damo.
I like maniac’s analysis this morning, OTHER than the omission of damo’s claim. I look forward to his adjustment. That’s a pretty big omission.
@damo… why do you think we have so many RB options?
#VOTE DAMO666

[dargorygel]

hmmm

I cross posted (this is why i don't like writing long posts) with damo.

##UNVOTE
even though i hate unvoting... i have to rethink.

[brainbomb]

your townreads are also fraudulent. There are names in your townreads that feel totally out of place. chaqa next to kgray.

you have kak at the top and applaud him for playing a perfect scum game. I dont think id list my top townread as someone who could be bamboozling me

[dargorygel]

also my 'popular' vote was on celaph, not maniac. smh

[brainbomb]

Chaqa — Maybe I just like that he’s been defending me, but I’ve been surprised by how reasonable he’s felt. He’s made some good arguments regarding town reading kak

Why would it suprise you that chaqa would be reasonable?

[Bonatogether]

Maniac (6)
yavuzovic rdrivera2005 Jamiet99uk Chaqa damo666 Kakarroto
celaph (4)
ghug foodcoats dargorygel Bonatogether

hmm ... not that I especially dislike the people on maniac, the people on celaph are quite more sexier overall, and celaph didn't answer my question on post #2530 on page 127 yet, and bona wanted competetive wagons, so let's see where that brings us

##vote celaph

Tied wagons

So you're fully back aboard this train after "forgetting" for a day?

you reminded me

[dargorygel]

In case I am caught in internet-wasteland... I will return to celaph.
Their wall post is incredibly hedgy. But I will look at it more closely, I 'spect.

##VOTE CELAPH

[dargorygel]

I could also join a bona wagon.

[Hamilton Brian]

This may be a stupid question but do Mafia have a roleblock?

Also for those looking for a D1 busser, sure a busser could exist. The vote count at the end was DemonRHK 7, Kak 4, HB 3, so unless Kak and HB are scum then DemonRHK gets saved if there are two scum on his wagon.

So assuming 0 or 1 busser we have scum on demonRHK could be 1/6

And non-bussers mafia are 3 from the remaining twelve players. Much more chance of finding scum here even if we throw a dart.

We can find any bussers later.

I'm aware that you'll all think I'm saying this to save myself, but you should all know it makes sense. Ask yourselves what you'll do if I flip town? Will you keep going through DemonRHK voters?

This is interesting from Maniac. He has a decent point about one busser only. Also the way Maniac is acting, in particular seeming kind of excited and specifically entering saying he “had a reason to waste time” playing this game and is now kind of walking away and not fighting for his spot and says he DOESN’T have time, makes me think he is the WW. It seems like a particularly hard 3P that is actually just designed to prevent massclaim and I totally could see someone being frustrated by drawing it.

In my analysis then celaph was the busser, although he probably didn’t intend to and got stuck. damo is weirdly lurky, and in general I’m finding the conversation for the last few hours feels like town arguing with itself, so I’d say mafia is predominantly in lurk mode, possibly lacking confidence. damo is one other scum. HB would be a third, he’s said weird wishy washy nothingness. Not sure on the last.

So you're suggesting Maniac could be werewolf? Good to keep in the organizer.

Suggesting Celaph got stuck? I need to look at the VC again, but it's happened before. Two games ago brain and I got stuck on ghug and the whole thing fell apart for scumteam.

Oh, when I looked at the bot and saw Celaph way in the lead, I was wondering what pushed them there. Maybe your argument was that?

Scum in lurk mode? Maybe. But, hey! What do you mean wishy washy nothingness!!! Take that back.