Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[rdrivera2005]

id bank on rdr secretary btw

Nope, I am not. I told at start that I am 100% guaranteed vanilla town. If Kgray were alive she would have believed it, but some scumbo disintegrated her.

And this is why you can't be left alive, you will end shooting or infecting a non infected town.

Vecna already told holdv this game will end. We kill you and then Worcej and scum will try to kill some clears. If Fox outplay scum we can even have one extra chance. And if you infected someone other then Fox, even you had a chance (a small one, but still).

[BobMcBob]

hmmm?
how can you be guaranteed vanilla town?
and why did you need kgray to be alive for that to be the case?
theres no downside to telling us as far as i can see

also im not gonna kill whoever i want, ill let town decide who i kill

i actually cannot win any more without some stupid scenario where you miskill twice in a row or i survive the day, infect, fox somehow manages to survive to the end and so does the person i infected without scum getting caught too quickly for that to be impossible

[ghug]

okay you know what?
i dont see the point anymore
even with a miskill today i cant win

n1: celaph (scanned and died)
n2: jasnah (immediately died)
n3: damo (scanned and died)
n4: rdr (immediately healed)
n5: fox (still infected)
n6: rdr (fox used some shaman ability and now apparently got infected again, infection on rdr failed)

i only have 1 live infectee, so i have no chance at winning unless you guys are all really dumb
so how about you let me live today and i can kill whoever you want tonight, because screw you mafia

we can either dk worcej and then try and hit another mafia tonight, or take a shot at mafia today (maniac is basically clear along with our 3 actual clears, leaving a grand total of 2 options to choose from) and then i guaranteed take out worcej tonight

my wincon at this point is basically:
get you guys to miskill worcej
actually infect someone successfully tonight
go "whoops haha how about you kill ghug hes probably alien"
somehow get that to be successful
successfully infect a second time
dont let townclear shaman foxcastle die to nk during that time
profit

so honestly why even try, because thats never gonna happen
and since mafia screwed me over, at no benefit to their wincon (which still used to be viable) why not return the favour?

I will wait on Fox to get a better understanding on what happened last night, but I have an idea.

It's tempting to get Alien working for us, but I don't think we can take this risk.

He could easily be lying about jasnah and first Fox, which swings it from 1-3. 4 if Fox can't confirm the other bit. That's either lose on killing worcej in the latter case, or lose on incorrect mafia kill, which is also not great.

[Maniac]

@bob - Jasnah had been the leading wagon with 2hrs to go on D1. Talk me through why you thought she was a good person to infect N2

Fox has hard claimed shaman. Do you really think he would still be around at the business end of the game?

[Maniac]

Bob has to be the kill today. But no need to hammer let’s fine final scum. Especially keen to hear our clears views as one of them will be targeted tonight.

[BobMcBob]

@bob - Jasnah had been the leading wagon with 2hrs to go on D1. Talk me through why you thought she was a good person to infect N2

Fox has hard claimed shaman. Do you really think he would still be around at the business end of the game?

jasnah was much more widely thought of as town by night, partially due to satphone claim
also i wanted access to the satphone qt because it sounded pretty fun

i was not online looking to change my infection orders 1 minute before eon on night 5 (when fox claimed. like seriously, get your timeline straight, how would i know he was shaman when choosing infection. you are not helping your case)
i chose to infect him because i thought he was very likely scum, but i knew town wouldnt be going after mafia until they caught alien so he was likely to outlive me (i wasnt really thinking about the post-death wincon)

[BobMcBob]

okay you know what?
i dont see the point anymore
even with a miskill today i cant win

n1: celaph (scanned and died)
n2: jasnah (immediately died)
n3: damo (scanned and died)
n4: rdr (immediately healed)
n5: fox (still infected)
n6: rdr (fox used some shaman ability and now apparently got infected again, infection on rdr failed)

i only have 1 live infectee, so i have no chance at winning unless you guys are all really dumb
so how about you let me live today and i can kill whoever you want tonight, because screw you mafia

we can either dk worcej and then try and hit another mafia tonight, or take a shot at mafia today (maniac is basically clear along with our 3 actual clears, leaving a grand total of 2 options to choose from) and then i guaranteed take out worcej tonight

my wincon at this point is basically:
get you guys to miskill worcej
actually infect someone successfully tonight
go "whoops haha how about you kill ghug hes probably alien"
somehow get that to be successful
successfully infect a second time
dont let townclear shaman foxcastle die to nk during that time
profit

so honestly why even try, because thats never gonna happen
and since mafia screwed me over, at no benefit to their wincon (which still used to be viable) why not return the favour?

I will wait on Fox to get a better understanding on what happened last night, but I have an idea.

It's tempting to get Alien working for us, but I don't think we can take this risk.

He could easily be lying about jasnah and first Fox, which swings it from 1-3. 4 if Fox can't confirm the other bit. That's either lose on killing worcej in the latter case, or lose on incorrect mafia kill, which is also not great.

fox can definitely confirm last nights action, which had something to do with rdr

i dont know what it was because i couldnt be bothered working out all the shaman interactions but we can do some gm calls to confirm that it works mechanically if you want

[BobMcBob]

Bob has to be the kill today. But no need to hammer let’s fine final scum. Especially keen to hear our clears views as one of them will be targeted tonight.

i dont think thats the case
you can kill me if you want, sure
it makes quite a bit of sense from town pov, and way more sense from scum pov
but you dont need to kill me today
but thanks for advocating no hammer, anybody who wants to speed my death at this point in the game is likely scum

[BobMcBob]

i think it is very unlikely maniac is scum
why?
because if maniac was scum, there was no sensible reason to set up a massive wagon on me instead of letting damo run away with it and then force worcej to out himself as scum in order to get damo more likely killed

it makes no sense to out one of his own team when he couldve easily got the same result without doing so

either that or its one of the biggest brain scumplays of the year
which basically narrows down worcej buddy to rdr or ghug, although im not sure which

ghugs endvote looks very bad compared to rdrs active refusal to endvote
although rdr is acting a little strange

my best guess is ghug, it makes more sense from the little analysis ive done

although im still curious to here why rdr said he was 100% guaranteed vanilla town
(satisfaction guaranteed. no refunds)
rdr please answer when you come online again

[BobMcBob]

also no hard feelings foxcastle but youre joining me on the worcej wagon

[Maniac]

Bob has to be the kill today. But no need to hammer let’s fine final scum. Especially keen to hear our clears views as one of them will be targeted tonight.

i dont think thats the case
you can kill me if you want, sure
it makes quite a bit of sense from town pov, and way more sense from scum pov
but you dont need to kill me today
but thanks for advocating no hammer, anybody who wants to speed my death at this point in the game is likely scum

We need to kill you just in case the alternative kill is the secretary and you’re lying about numbers of votes you control. We have two scum who would rather throw the game to you than lose the secretary at this point. So as much as I’d like to work with you Bob, you’re death is the right play. You’ve been unlucky with your infectees getting killed, but you’ve played your role well.

[Maniac]

Quick look at luckily end game. I think Fox needs to provide complete convo he had with Bona so we’re sure Vecna is town. Could the insanity be skewing results? Could Vecna have been framed? Just to be super cautious and no misstep.

Today Bob dies
Then Jamie/Foxx get NK
We kill worceJ
They kill Jamie/Fox
We kill Ghug/rdriveria. Im expecting a camper van claim. Could be genuine could be scum last roll of the dice, maybe Jasnah or Kgray were camper van. This is now EOL (eliminate or lose).

We definitely need to decide on this kill whilst Jamie and Fox are still alive. We’re not going to get any new scum info from VCA or anything so we can make the decision on the final kill now.

I’m aware that I’m not clear of course, so I’m still in the Ghug/rdriveria/maniac pool.

[Vecna]

I really dont know why you guys are even discussing this lol.

Today we still have 8 people. Tomorrow we will most likely be down to six, meaning with 2 extra votes the alien can always tie.

Today is the last option we have to kill the alien. Even if bob is telling the truth, we dont want to be forced to let scum kill Fox

[Vecna]

where is fox anyway

[Vecna]

##unend

I guess we should not be endvoting today, just in case fox did the thing or wants to be pretending he did the thing.

[rdrivera2005]

i think it is very unlikely maniac is scum
why?
because if maniac was scum, there was no sensible reason to set up a massive wagon on me instead of letting damo run away with it and then force worcej to out himself as scum in order to get damo more likely killed

it makes no sense to out one of his own team when he couldve easily got the same result without doing so

either that or its one of the biggest brain scumplays of the year
which basically narrows down worcej buddy to rdr or ghug, although im not sure which

ghugs endvote looks very bad compared to rdrs active refusal to endvote
although rdr is acting a little strange

my best guess is ghug, it makes more sense from the little analysis ive done

although im still curious to here why rdr said he was 100% guaranteed vanilla town
(satisfaction guaranteed. no refunds)
rdr please answer when you come online again

Bob, this is more or less an internal joke between me and Kgray. I think it started in the game where I was public vanilla.

[rdrivera2005]

##unend

I guess we should not be endvoting today, just in case fox did the thing or wants to be pretending he did the thing.

This will be weird.

[BobMcBob]

I really dont know why you guys are even discussing this lol.

Today we still have 8 people. Tomorrow we will most likely be down to six, meaning with 2 extra votes the alien can always tie.

Today is the last option we have to kill the alien. Even if bob is telling the truth, we dont want to be forced to let scum kill Fox

even if i infect tonight, chances are i dont have two infectees by morning
and if i do scum will nk one the day after

if you want to be really safe we can no-kill today and i cant possibly control half the votes tomorrow, so if i infect instead of killing you just vote me off then
i am under no inclinations to help scum at all any more

[Jamiet99uk]

fox can definitely confirm last nights action, which had something to do with rdr

i dont know what it was because i couldnt be bothered working out all the shaman interactions but we can do some gm calls to confirm that it works mechanically if you want

Let's examine this part. It may be important.

Other than their basic Heal, the Shaman has two single-use powers, the TRANCE and the RITUAL.

The TRANCE is the one that allows the Shaman to talk to the dead. Foxcastle already claims to have used that up, talking to the ghost of Bonatogether. We assume this to be true. Therefore the RITUAL was the Shaman's only potential remaining non-standard power.

The RITUAL is described as follows (I have highlighted particularly significant bits):

Ritual (1x): The Shaman can take a player to their home and perform a ritual. This action occurs at the end of night. If the Shaman targets a player that is jailed or camped then their action will fail. If the Shaman targets a player that is eligible for the ritual then that player will be untargetable by camping or jailing the following day. The Shaman will give the player a ritualistic substance at the end of the night phase during the heal portion of the order of adjudication. The player will be unable to participate for the duration of the following day phase and will be unable to be targeted for that phase (including DayKilling). The player will return to the game thread and be targetable at the start of the night phase. If the player was infected by ALIEN DNA that effect will be removed.

The most important thing to observe here is that if Rdrivera had been targeted by the Shaman's ritual last night, then Rdrivera would be forbidden from participating during the current phase.

Yet clearly Rdrivera has posted several times this phase. Therefore we can be certain Foxcastle did not use the Ritual on Rdrivera.

Bob is reporting he targeted Rdrivera last, and that Foxcastle did something that interfered with that, and somehow, allegedly, this caused Foxcastle to become infected instead.

There is no possible shaman power that would produce this effect:

- The TRANCE was already used up.
- The RITUAL would have prevented Rdrivera from posting today, yet he is posting so that doesn't fit.
- The Shaman's HEAL does not reverse Alien DNA, it simply saves the target from being killed, so it isn't that either.

I have been through the items list. There is no item listed that would cause an Alien Infection attempt to be re-directed from <target> to <item user>. The only item that gets anywhere near this is:

1x Alien Microbe Ray: The Microbe Ray, when used, will allow the player to evade any actions that target them during the night phase. This needs to be self applied or applied to another player during the day phase for it to go into effect during the night phase. Once used it is gone.

If Foxcastle had used the Alien Microbe Ray on Rdrivera and Bob tried to infect Rdrivera, the infection attempt would fail, but this would not cause Bob to infect Foxcastle instead.

Something here does not add up.

[Jamiet99uk]

(Whoops, I accidently didn't end the italics after the RITUAL description text - but my words are all as intended - sorry for that slight formatting snafu)