Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[Vecna]

So I am guessing EMC was questioned his Jailer and he somehow thought he discovered the Jailer's identity and revealed this on sat phone. This would explain both the mod kill and the deleted/proscribed messages.

This is consistent with jasnah saying she may have already said too much.

I realise this is sort of 'gaming' but the info is out there so what the hell.

WE SHOULD ALL SHEEP JASNAH.

Anybody not doing so should be viewed with suspicion.

##vote Bona

Wow, what a convenient way of parking your vote on me for ages, and then to endvote. Jasnah has no information that could possibly incriminate me, and it is not mechanically possible for her to have some anyways.

##vote damo

EMC may have guessed who his jailer is and imparted it via sat phone. (Maybe even deliberately risking MK as he was a vt). For example EMC may have guessed by posting style such as punctuationless stream of consciousness or ESL error or symbols or SHOUTING or some other indicator.

I know this is speculation but the point is it is possible.

....Now the question if you, Bona, are the jailer, how did you give yourself away (if at all)?

this is such a feelbad situation

Having to speculate on whether EMC wouldve guessed, whether scum werent faking to incriminate, and having to guess what information was written in the QT and then deleted....Without any way to verify or not.

Id love to say Im just gonna ignore it and just follow my reads, but now it already is in my stream of thoughts.

[Vecna]

@Bona you've put your vote today first on the inert wagon Jamie, and then on OMGUS solo wagon damo. If damo weren't voting you, would you still go to vote him? And if not who you actually want to DK?

@Vecna I'm really easygoing person when I don't have several wannabe psychics and their hangers-on screeching about semantic scumslips. I'll support to Belgium any time, people who don't do lowest common denominator lines.

@brainbomb Remind me if you're town again? If so I may join your wagon later today, but first, I have to resolve the unrest over here

I get it, I get it

[Vecna]

##Call GM When does a player find out if their item was stolen?

##gm note
Start of day

Do dead players still get notified that their item was stolen if theyre also NK'd?

Can players NK'd by scum have their item stolen (im too lazy to go to the first page lol).

[jasnah]

OK, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I move that we not have a runaway wagon like 15 hours into a day where we desperately need to DK scum. Last night and yesterday I was a lot more chill about town's position, but as I became more and more certain emc was going to be modkilled and was town, combined with HR the town effortposter dead, it became more important to cut down on the waste of scarce public resources.

Everyone is aware of the case for and against Bona. For better or for worse he's been in the limelight long enough that we all know how and why we would kill him off. In the meantime we ought to reinvigorate public discourse and focus attention on some new areas of deliberation.

##vote thamrick

FWIW, can I ask you to expand on the the bolded and underlined above?

Not asking you to violate a GM request or anything, but how did you become more certain he was going to be Modkilled before night phase moved over?

Certain event transpired in QT which I won't elaborate on per GM request, but shortly after this point emc vanished from QT, no more talking, despite being online. He goes silent completely means it's a major incrimination, can't imagine GM could find a reasonable halfway punishment tbh, so modkill it is.

[ND]

##gm note
Just a bit more elaboration. I talked to Darg and we do not require people to read their role pm.

[Bonatogether]

Bonatogether must be joking. There are four other players voting you including one who's end voted, and although I'm the most likely of the wagon to be voting you for being stupid, pretending like we're all on you for policy reasons isn't a line worth respecting. Looking at your iso you have about one substantive comment every five posts that you write, the others are just snarking like you're trying to play a poor imitation of me. Why are you still voting Jamie?

Why are you guys voting me then? I'm firmly town. There's no possible way there's any kind of scan on me. There's no possible mechanical information on me. There's no scumslip. There's no VCA tying me to scum, or even probable scum, or even possible scum. THERE IS NO CASE.

The case is baked into how you're responding to people pushing at you. It's how you're reacting.

:|

[Foxcastle]

I think scum are in: Bob, Thamrick, Maniac, ghug, lfsichl, celaph.

[damo666]

I think scum are in: Bob, Thamrick, Maniac, ghug, lfsichl, celaph.

Rationale?

[Foxcastle]

I think scum are in: Bob, Thamrick, Maniac, ghug, lfsichl, celaph.

Rationale?

I find that hilarious coming from you.

[Bonatogether]

bona's thoughts on the d1 voting

The first half of d1 is notable in that no major wagons (>=3 votes) formed until quite late, at T-25:52. Before then, the lead wagon osscilated between lfischl, ghug, vecna, bob, and macca, with me being the voter pushing them into the lead in 3 of those 5 cases. I don't think anything can be read into this early part of the day.

For most of the remaining time (until T-7:04), Jamie's wagon was in the lead. From what people posted, it does not seem as if it was anything more than 1 or 2 people scumread him but anyways, the wagon went up to 4 votes at T-21:57, slid down one due to me three-way tying the vote, and then back up to 5 T-12:24. This early Jamie wagon (as distinguished from the late Jamie wagon) was stagnant and had no momentum, driving force, or central argument.

The wagon on me was comprised of Bob, Bunny, and jasnah, who all have scumread me since d1 but only recently been able to convince people about it. It's quite interesting to read how people who now eagerly hop on my wagon now were indifferent to it then (damo) or considered that all I was doing was "white noise" (jamie), which doesn't reflect well on damo especially.

Chaqa's wagon never collapsed throughout the day, like Jamie's did, which leads me to believe that there was at least 2 scum on it (but probably no more) It was started by Vecna as a response to Chaqa saying "comedy", with Jamie quoting Vecna's post and voting Chaqa. I gave it a third vote, tying it with my and Jamie's wagon. The main impetus behind the wagon seemed to be punishing lurking and meta-strategies, which is an easy way for scum to hide.

jasnah's wagon was started because Chaqa thought jasnah was a jerk. Second vote was damo ( ). I gave it the 3rd vote as a response to foxcastle seemingly ignoring it (although he was the 4th voter for jasnah's wagon right afterwards). It collapsed towards the end due to people not wanting to be caught off the main two wagons once it became apparent that Jamie and Chaqa would be the final two. There are 3 categories of jasnah voters - Chaqa/fox, me, and then celaph, damo, emc, ghug. These are split by where they end up. Chaqa and fox were apparently afk and didn't move. I went to Jamie. celaph/damo/emc/ghug went to chaqa.

Jamie's lategame wagon (which has to be treated as a distinct wagon) was kickstarted by bunny for pushing for alienhunting and not scumhunting more generally. He also then picked up votes from HR and me. (moving from my wagon, first vote, and moving from jasnah)

Chaqa's wagon, meanwhile, picked up 4 votes from the collapse of jasnah's wagon, while Jamie only picked up 1. This total stampede over to Chaqa makes me believe that any scum in that group chose Chaqa over Jamie. This indicates that they either a) believed that Chaqa was being targeted by town/it was easier to hide on that wagon or b) Jamie is scum and they were trying to protect him.

tl;dr
damo sus
2+ scum among ghug, jamie, jasnah, lfischl, and vecna (people who sat on the chaqa wagon for a long time)
1+ scum among celaph, damo, emc, ghug (people who moved to chaqa over jamie)

3+ scum on chaqa wagon at EoD
more scum on chaqa than on jamie

[Bonatogether]

I have multiple things due at 5 tonight (it's 1:40 now) so I cannot talk as much until then.

[brainbomb]

how many shaman are in this setup. I was under the impression we have two town shamans

[brainbomb]

TOWN ROLES
[Investigation] Alien Researcher: Each night the Alien Researcher may research a player to determine if they have been infected by Alien DNA. The Researcher will scan a player, but the scan result will not be returned until the end of the subsequent night phase. The scan will fall under the investigation order on the order of adjudication. If you are Jailed or Camped, you will be roleblocked from completing an investigation during the night phase, but still able to receive your scan result from the previous phase at the end of night. Results will come in as ALIEN DNA or NO ALIEN DNA.

[Investigation] Deputy -unknown sanity-: The Deputy works in the small and recently incorporated town of Rachel, Nevada. Each night the Deputy can investigate a player. The investigation results will read as AREA-51 or NOT AREA-51. The Deputy is of an unknown sanity. The sanity types are listed below.
[Sane Cop] Results are Accurate -unless a PR interferes with them-
[Insane Cop] Results are the opposite of what they should be
[Paranoid Cop] Results are always AREA-51
[Naive Cop] Results are always NOT AREA-51

Results are returned at the end of the night phase and will be adjudicated during the scan portion of the order of adjudication.

In addition, the Deputy does not differentiate between Mafia members who work at AREA-51 and town PR’s that work at AREA-51. The Alien Researcher and potentially 0-2 Miller’s.

[Protection] The Shaman (2x): The Shaman is an Elder in the New or Western Shoshone Tribe. Each night the Shaman can visit a player and aid them in their spiritual enlightenment. The Shaman can perform a basic heal using herbal remedies that will restore the player to full health. Or can use one of two abilities. Each of these abilities is a 1X. Once used, it is gone.

Ritual (1x): The Shaman can take a player to their home and perform a ritual. This action occurs at the end of night. If the Shaman targets a player that is jailed or camped then their action will fail. If the Shaman targets a player that is eligible for the ritual then that player will be untargetable by camping or jailing the following day. The Shaman will give the player a ritualistic substance at the end of the night phase during the heal portion of the order of adjudication. The player will be unable to participate for the duration of the following day phase and will be unable to be targeted for that phase (including DayKilling). The player will return to the game thread and be targetable at the start of the night phase. If the player was infected by ALIEN DNA that effect will be removed.

Trance (1x): The Shaman can enter into a trance and seek out the spirits of the deceased. The Shaman can ask a spirit of a deceased player a question, limited to 50 words and subject to the GM’s discretion. The deceased player can answer the question based on what they knew in the living world. The GM will give the Shaman their answer. This ability is time limited, after two subsequent phases the deceased will move on to the God QT.

[Utility] RV Camper: The RV Camper drives a state of the art, 1977 Globetrotter. Each day, during the day phase, the Camper can select two players to come and camp with him during the night in the Nevada Desert. The two players selected, cannot be selected consecutive nights in a row. The Camper and the two players can talk in the CAMPER QT during the night phase. If you are selected by the camper you cannot make a night action (if you have one) or communicate in a different night QT. If you are selected to be killed then your reveal text will state you were at a campsite. If the Alien visits you while camping, everyone at the campsite will be infected by ALIEN DNA.

Vanilla Townie: You are a vanilla townie! Each day you may vote for whoever you believe to be mafia or the alien. You win with the town.

0-2 Miller: Same as a VT, but scan as AREA-51. Wins with the town.

Did anyone else think this meant two shaman?

[brainbomb]

the reason I ask is Maniac was concerned Jamie was going to fake claim as THE shaman at EOD, and that had me confused thinking there were two so why does maniac sus a person crumbing that role

[brainbomb]

The night reveal post says "several" deaths although only 2 are listed.

There must be at least another death that is unreported.

This is damo pretending to be mister game and watch, flipping cartoon bacon onto the thread and totally at a loss for how to look town

[damo666]

The night reveal post says "several" deaths although only 2 are listed.

There must be at least another death that is unreported.

This is damo pretending to be mister game and watch, flipping cartoon bacon onto the thread and totally at a loss for how to look town

No. It is me understanding the meaning of words.

[brainbomb]

The night reveal post says "several" deaths although only 2 are listed.

There must be at least another death that is unreported.

This is damo pretending to be mister game and watch, flipping cartoon bacon onto the thread and totally at a loss for how to look town

No. It is me understanding the meaning of words.

At best it makes you look like Jamie in a pedantic frenzy. Which isnt really how you spend your time

[lfischl]

bona's thoughts on the d1 voting

The first half of d1 is notable in that no major wagons (>=3 votes) formed until quite late, at T-25:52. Before then, the lead wagon osscilated between lfischl, ghug, vecna, bob, and macca, with me being the voter pushing them into the lead in 3 of those 5 cases. I don't think anything can be read into this early part of the day.

For most of the remaining time (until T-7:04), Jamie's wagon was in the lead. From what people posted, it does not seem as if it was anything more than 1 or 2 people scumread him but anyways, the wagon went up to 4 votes at T-21:57, slid down one due to me three-way tying the vote, and then back up to 5 T-12:24. This early Jamie wagon (as distinguished from the late Jamie wagon) was stagnant and had no momentum, driving force, or central argument.

The wagon on me was comprised of Bob, Bunny, and jasnah, who all have scumread me since d1 but only recently been able to convince people about it. It's quite interesting to read how people who now eagerly hop on my wagon now were indifferent to it then (damo) or considered that all I was doing was "white noise" (jamie), which doesn't reflect well on damo especially.

Chaqa's wagon never collapsed throughout the day, like Jamie's did, which leads me to believe that there was at least 2 scum on it (but probably no more) It was started by Vecna as a response to Chaqa saying "comedy", with Jamie quoting Vecna's post and voting Chaqa. I gave it a third vote, tying it with my and Jamie's wagon. The main impetus behind the wagon seemed to be punishing lurking and meta-strategies, which is an easy way for scum to hide.

jasnah's wagon was started because Chaqa thought jasnah was a jerk. Second vote was damo ( ). I gave it the 3rd vote as a response to foxcastle seemingly ignoring it (although he was the 4th voter for jasnah's wagon right afterwards). It collapsed towards the end due to people not wanting to be caught off the main two wagons once it became apparent that Jamie and Chaqa would be the final two. There are 3 categories of jasnah voters - Chaqa/fox, me, and then celaph, damo, emc, ghug. These are split by where they end up. Chaqa and fox were apparently afk and didn't move. I went to Jamie. celaph/damo/emc/ghug went to chaqa.

Jamie's lategame wagon (which has to be treated as a distinct wagon) was kickstarted by bunny for pushing for alienhunting and not scumhunting more generally. He also then picked up votes from HR and me. (moving from my wagon, first vote, and moving from jasnah)

Chaqa's wagon, meanwhile, picked up 4 votes from the collapse of jasnah's wagon, while Jamie only picked up 1. This total stampede over to Chaqa makes me believe that any scum in that group chose Chaqa over Jamie. This indicates that they either a) believed that Chaqa was being targeted by town/it was easier to hide on that wagon or b) Jamie is scum and they were trying to protect him.

tl;dr
damo sus
2+ scum among ghug, jamie, jasnah, lfischl, and vecna (people who sat on the chaqa wagon for a long time)
1+ scum among celaph, damo, emc, ghug (people who moved to chaqa over jamie)

3+ scum on chaqa wagon at EoD
more scum on chaqa than on jamie

So, the chaqa wagon picked up 4 votes from jasnah, and you say that scum from that picked chaqa over jaime. But then why do you think it could be only 1 scum from that group? The Jaime case is interesting though. Who voted for Jamie from jasnah?

[Bonatogether]

bona's thoughts on the d1 voting

<snip>

tl;dr
damo sus
2+ scum among ghug, jamie, jasnah, lfischl, and vecna (people who sat on the chaqa wagon for a long time)
1+ scum among celaph, damo, emc, ghug (people who moved to chaqa over jamie)

3+ scum on chaqa wagon at EoD
more scum on chaqa than on jamie

So, the chaqa wagon picked up 4 votes from jasnah, and you say that scum from that picked chaqa over jaime. But then why do you think it could be only 1 scum from that group? The Jaime case is interesting though. Who voted for Jamie from jasnah?

I say 1+, indicating 1 or more. It's probably 1 (possibly 2), though, since I think the majority of scum (or an almost-majority) were on the chaqa wagon for a while.

[lfischl]

bona's thoughts on the d1 voting

<snip>

tl;dr
damo sus
2+ scum among ghug, jamie, jasnah, lfischl, and vecna (people who sat on the chaqa wagon for a long time)
1+ scum among celaph, damo, emc, ghug (people who moved to chaqa over jamie)

3+ scum on chaqa wagon at EoD
more scum on chaqa than on jamie

So, the chaqa wagon picked up 4 votes from jasnah, and you say that scum from that picked chaqa over jaime. But then why do you think it could be only 1 scum from that group? The Jaime case is interesting though. Who voted for Jamie from jasnah?

I say 1+, indicating 1 or more. It's probably 1 (possibly 2), though, since I think the majority of scum (or an almost-majority) were on the chaqa wagon for a while.

I do agree with your point that at least 3 scum were in that group of 10 who voted for him