Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[TheMadMonarch]

I haven't read since page 81, and I won't be online for the first half of D2. However:

##VOTE jamie
##END

If you are not going to be able to catch up later, why the fuck are you endvoting?

This is directly anti-town, shitty fucking behaviour and I don't care if my reaction seems OMGUS, but ##VOTE MACCA

If you can't participate, fuck off and sub out.

I got an extension on the assignment that I was gonna have to spend all my time on tonight, so now there's time for mafia.

[TheMadMonarch]

holy heck jasnah looks awful on page 92
welcome to my scum list again jas
i kinda wanna push for a bona kill but im not quite convinced enough hes scum instead of obnoxious town

How? Jas looks great!

[TheMadMonarch]

I'll do EON reads. I won't be analyzing these and most if not all requests for me to show my work will not be entertained. I don't like explaining myself and there's too much of import at this EON for us to start having the serious talks until after it goes through.

Confirmed town
Emc

I like these people
Maniac
Bob McBob
Celaph
lfischl
worcej

Grudgingly, I'll town lean this individual
Ghug

I don't like these people
Damo
Bona
Macca

Giving me a headache. Someone else sort these individuals out
Jamiet
HR
Vecna

If I didn't write your name, you're not yet important enough for me to concern myself with you.

I like you!

[TheMadMonarch]

Jamie if youre really Alien Researcher youre basically outted now. tell us more

I'm afraid so.

In addition, the Deputy does not differentiate between Mafia members who work at AREA-51 and town PR’s that work at AREA-51. The Alien Researcher and potentially 0-2 Miller’s.

This is not good for Town. I wish Macca had read the setup more carefully.

We're pretty screwed now.

I read it. I saw that. However:

I still think you're scum, regardless of the scan. Plus, 4/5 remaining AREA-51 roles are mafia. I don't think you had any choice here then to claim AR, especially since BB already suggested it (you didn't have to even read the setup!).

[TheMadMonarch]

I declare you wrong.

Strictly speaking, odds are you're mafia. This is such a clean excuse for you to survive a few nks. I call bs

How. If so, why is there no counter-claim? If I am lying, the real Alien Researcher would counter-claim me. Indeed I hereby call on them to do so.

a) it could be kgray
b) they might not cc you for their own safety. The alien gets a kill, and would almost certainly use it on an AR.
c) I don't trust you.

[jasnah]

I consider not cc'ing to be anti-town, not overwhelmingly so given the lack of protective role in this setup, but anti-town nonetheless.

Not cc'ing now and being allowed to cc later is a great way to give mafia late game claim space and run a large risk of DK'ing a town PR because our shits and giggles wanted to YOLO in on the prospect of another hidden PR.

Also, Jamie's only choice wasn't to claim AR, he could as easily have claimed to have been gently visited last night by Man in Black, which isn't particularly farfetched when he was one of the main accused yesterday.

If there's real AR and they aren't cc'ing, Jamie lives and gets to be semi-clear.

[Vecna]

before catching up, what was this nonsense I saw in your EoN reads about me giving you a headache jasnah?

[damo666]

So I am guessing EMC was questioned his Jailer and he somehow thought he discovered the Jailer's identity and revealed this on sat phone. This would explain both the mod kill and the deleted/proscribed messages.

This is consistent with jasnah saying she may have already said too much.

I realise this is sort of 'gaming' but the info is out there so what the hell.

WE SHOULD ALL SHEEP JASNAH.

Anybody not doing so should be viewed with suspicion.

[damo666]

* 'by' before 'his jailer '

[damo666]

##vote Bona

[BobMcBob]

The alien ray gun was almost certainly held by the Secretary, the Man in Black, or the MP.

Alien, the only other evil with an item, shouldn't waste the ray gun early in D1 when it could be so useful in gaining a late-game edge, and if town hip fired kgray then vegged they deserve to lose.

Therefore there are two remaining unaccounted for mafia items that were held from D1, and one alien item.

Aside from emc there are two more N1 sat phone claims. Macca also claims to have been holding a base pass N1. Already me + two other N1 sat phones + Macca can't all be evil, assuming Macca's not lying about his base pass, which is a minimum but tolerable start.

Anyone else who can credibly claim that they had an item N1 is cleared from being item thief or gunman, and if they come forward we'll have a pool of >4 people of which maximum 3 can be scum.

you lost me on this logic
scum can still receive items, so anyone with a phone is in no way cleared of being scum
i believe there are scum that do not receive items but even so I dont see how this logic functions

[jasnah]

@ Vecna It's a warm, fuzzy feeling. Like hot chocolate with a little too much sugar, or three people alliances with one too many person. That's what a headache feels like right?

@damo First of all, town should always sheep me. You're clearly smarter than I believed as you recognize this fundamental truth when so many still live in denial.

However, whether or not I have a reliable knowledge of who is MP, you still would have to consider whether you think I'm town, making you right, or you think I'm not town, making you wrong. If I'm not town I don't have much interest in booting out the real MP, unless either the MP is someone like Bona, and makes for a happy coincidence that I can remove them from the discussion, or I'm thinking of retaliation from other satellite phone holders (at least one of whom probably read the deleted comments, before they were deleted) if I disseminate falsehoods.

A long way of asking, damo my not friend, do you now think I'm town, or you think still I can likely be scum and willing to join my wagon in hopes I would bus teammate?

[jasnah]

The alien ray gun was almost certainly held by the Secretary, the Man in Black, or the MP.

Alien, the only other evil with an item, shouldn't waste the ray gun early in D1 when it could be so useful in gaining a late-game edge, and if town hip fired kgray then vegged they deserve to lose.

Therefore there are two remaining unaccounted for mafia items that were held from D1, and one alien item.

Aside from emc there are two more N1 sat phone claims. Macca also claims to have been holding a base pass N1. Already me + two other N1 sat phones + Macca can't all be evil, assuming Macca's not lying about his base pass, which is a minimum but tolerable start.

Anyone else who can credibly claim that they had an item N1 is cleared from being item thief or gunman, and if they come forward we'll have a pool of >4 people of which maximum 3 can be scum.

you lost me on this logic
scum can still receive items, so anyone with a phone is in no way cleared of being scum
i believe there are scum that do not receive items but even so I dont see how this logic functions

What do you not understand? My post was very clear. I don't want to have to lower myself to ELY5 because you're not in fact 5, despite all appearances.

[Jamiet99uk]

Good morning

##VOTE BONATOGETHER

(Good work so far, Jasnah)

[Jamiet99uk]

In addition, the Deputy does not differentiate between Mafia members who work at AREA-51 and town PR’s that work at AREA-51. The Alien Researcher and potentially 0-2 Miller’s.

This is not good for Town. I wish Macca had read the setup more carefully.

We're pretty screwed now.

I read it. I saw that. However:

I still think you're scum, regardless of the scan. Plus, 4/5 remaining AREA-51 roles are mafia. I don't think you had any choice here then to claim AR, especially since BB already suggested it (you didn't have to even read the setup!).

What will you learn when I am revealed to be town? How will you use this lesson to become better at this game?

[BobMcBob]

So I am guessing EMC was questioned his Jailer and he somehow thought he discovered the Jailer's identity and revealed this on sat phone. This would explain both the mod kill and the deleted/proscribed messages.

This is consistent with jasnah saying she may have already said too much.

I realise this is sort of 'gaming' but the info is out there so what the hell.

WE SHOULD ALL SHEEP JASNAH.

Anybody not doing so should be viewed with suspicion.

this idea is beyond miserable
I mean sure i also want to vote bona right now but sheeping jasnah is actually a horrible idea
you are well known for reading too far into things that dont exist, like saying that several should necessarily mean more than 2, when it clearly didnt
emc would likely me modkilled regardless of what he said over the phone, and jasnah didnt seem thrilled with talking about it largely because the gms said not to hence, saying too much
there are plenty of reasons to vote bona other than oh look i have a meta-meta tinfoil theory about how the gms are running the game and phone lines and 5g towers causing coronavirus
and also this kind of meta-meta gaming, even if it happens to be correct, which i doubt, is very unfun
i appreciate the attempt damo but you are very much jumping at the wrong straws here

[BobMcBob]

The alien ray gun was almost certainly held by the Secretary, the Man in Black, or the MP.

Alien, the only other evil with an item, shouldn't waste the ray gun early in D1 when it could be so useful in gaining a late-game edge, and if town hip fired kgray then vegged they deserve to lose.

Therefore there are two remaining unaccounted for mafia items that were held from D1, and one alien item.

Aside from emc there are two more N1 sat phone claims. Macca also claims to have been holding a base pass N1. Already me + two other N1 sat phones + Macca can't all be evil, assuming Macca's not lying about his base pass, which is a minimum but tolerable start.

Anyone else who can credibly claim that they had an item N1 is cleared from being item thief or gunman, and if they come forward we'll have a pool of >4 people of which maximum 3 can be scum.

you lost me on this logic
scum can still receive items, so anyone with a phone is in no way cleared of being scum
i believe there are scum that do not receive items but even so I dont see how this logic functions

What do you not understand? My post was very clear. I don't want to have to lower myself to ELY5 because you're not in fact 5, despite all appearances.

what are you going to narrow it down to?
a pool of 4 people of which at most 3 can be scum?
how on earth is that in any way helpful?

[rdrivera2005]

So I am guessing EMC was questioned his Jailer and he somehow thought he discovered the Jailer's identity and revealed this on sat phone. This would explain both the mod kill and the deleted/proscribed messages.

This is consistent with jasnah saying she may have already said too much.

I realise this is sort of 'gaming' but the info is out there so what the hell.

WE SHOULD ALL SHEEP JASNAH.

Anybody not doing so should be viewed with suspicion.

Damo, I don't fully agree with your logic. Emc was modkilled because he posted in a QT while jailed. The content of what he posted doesn't mind and we shouldn't try to outguess GMs or pressure Jasnah about it.

This said, I also strongly townread Jasnah by now, but won't sheep him unless I agree with his vote. And I am torn on Bona. His behavior is obnoxious and anti-town today (sorry Bona) but not sure it's scum. Scum is probably relaxed and letting town tear apart as they are winning by a large margin. And I don't want another policy lynch.

[Jamiet99uk]

you lost me on this logic
scum can still receive items, so anyone with a phone is in no way cleared of being scum
i believe there are scum that do not receive items but even so I dont see how this logic functions

What do you not understand? My post was very clear. I don't want to have to lower myself to ELY5 because you're not in fact 5, despite all appearances.

what are you going to narrow it down to?
a pool of 4 people of which at most 3 can be scum?
how on earth is that in any way helpful?

A pool of 4 people containing 1-3 scum would be pretty useful.

[jasnah]

you lost me on this logic
scum can still receive items, so anyone with a phone is in no way cleared of being scum
i believe there are scum that do not receive items but even so I dont see how this logic functions

What do you not understand? My post was very clear. I don't want to have to lower myself to ELY5 because you're not in fact 5, despite all appearances.

what are you going to narrow it down to?
a pool of 4 people of which at most 3 can be scum?
how on earth is that in any way helpful?

Contingently, the suggested is useful because it leads us toward a situation where potentially almost everyone alive can be cleared from being item thief or gunman, leaving just two or slightly more people who are confirmed to be item thief and gunman because they didn't start with items.

Intrinsically, it's useful because until AR and deputy come into effect, this is the closest this set up gives us to mech confirms. I'm sure you can understand this, that you can consult your star signs and your tarot cards for days and see what they say about the number of exclamation marks so and so writes or how many times they yell 'sCuMsLeEp!!!' or how pissed off they get at your chickenshit pseudopsychology, all of that is ultimately speculative. Process of elimination through item ownership meanwhile is mechanical. It doesn't lie. And it's as near as you can get to "knowing" in the rigorous sense.