Mafia 65: Dreamland II [Hidden]

[brainbomb]

Well. I assume from the GM's post that EMC was jailed or otherwise told not to communicate, and he attempted to circumvent those rules. That's rather unfortunate. Silly boy, EMC.

I guess if we have to lose VTs, at least both VTs we've lost were Millers so the Deputy is potentially gaining usefulness...

emc was a vt?

[celaph]

Current thoughts:

I don't mind the jamie wagon. While Jamie's snarky summary of the wagon makes it seem bad, Maniac and others have interesting reasons.

I don't like the Chaqa wagon. I think Vecna's reasons are bad. I think the members of the wagon are sketchy. I think the timing and manner of its formulation is sketchy.

I like the Bona wagon (obv, I'm on it). I still think Bona had a lot of posts that were "too sketchy to be sketchy" by just spewing statements and then contradicting them about 10 minutes later for no reason. His high school chummy drama seemed like a way to post a lot without doing anything.

I am worried that when lfischl took early pressure (I didn't understand why, but I didn't understand why Durga got a lot of pressure in the mini game) that Vecna jumped in to change the topic. Vecna did the same for some other wagons. I'm not sure who he's saving like he did Durga, but it seems very similar to last game. His posts seem forced like they did last game too, as the GM I thought on D1 "oh man, when Durga flips it'll be obvious how Vecna was defending her". Gonna ##vote Vecna

Do note that if it turns out that Both jamiet and Chaqa turn out to be scum.

OR if Jamiet is scum and Chaqa is town.

This post is a hard-ass scumclaim trying to set up future days.

In fact, this is Bunnies scumplay to a T.

Arguing hard against certain wagons without having any opinion on it himself. Trying to draw conclusions, trying to influence general opinion.

You just rose to the top of the list buddy.

Im coming for you.

Vecna looks pretty invested here.

Is invested Vecna any way alignment indicative for him? He seemed pretty invested in both M62 (as town) and the mini-game (as scum).

[brainbomb]

vecna is still alive. his reads suck or hes evil.

[BobMcBob]

There was not a second death so alien infected someone.

is there a doctor or protective role in the setup?

There are protective / saving items like bullet proof vests...

so its possible alien tried to kill
although id assume most players would not choose to kill as alien
because otherwise the role wouldnt be "broken"
so infection is most likely?

[celaph]

@Foxcastle - I note you were around EOD1. Why didn't you vote for one of the lead wagons?

Good question from Maniac.

[celaph]

So, D1 was either:
a) a TvTvT waste. In this case it's maybe worth looking at wagons that didn't materialize (all the high schoolers, strangely, and Vecna, who acts like one), but mostly it just sucks.
b) a jasnah save. This one's my favorite, at least pre-writing. First votes on jas were Chaqa/damo/bona/Fox, which put her tied for first, with only a Fox vote on Vecna in between (Jamie was in the lead here, so this could point to a Jamie/Fox team). This put her into a tie with Chaqa and Jamie. lfischl put Chaqa back ahead, emc tied it. Celaph put her in the lead, bona moved to tie it as he does. Brain put Chaqa in the lead. Bona moved back to tie it. Bunny and celaph moved to Jamie (putting him back in the running) and Chaqa (putting him in the lead) respectively. I moved to jasnah to tie it. Then thamrick jumps on Chaqa, Riot jumps on Jamie, and bona moves to tie again, making it 7-7-5. I, emc, and damo then pile on Chaqa in that order. In this scenario, I think damo, Fox, emc, and I look good (I always look good), emc and bona could go either way, and lfischl, brain, Bunny, thamrick, and Riot look bad. The fact that that many people would look bad makes me think there was a save involving a couple of scum and a couple of unwitting town.
c) a Jamie save, here I look pretty bad because I broke the tie. All those early voters on jasnah look not great, especially Fox because he also briefly tried to make Vecna competitive. Fischy still looks bad, brain too, maybe celaph, thamrick. Riot looks good, Bunny looks good. Bona's still hard to read based on the VCA, but probably a little better because he ended up killing the jasnah wagon to force a tie between Chaqa and Jamie.
d) a double save. lfischl, brain, thamrick, maybe me look bad here. Fox, emc, damo, Bunny, HR all look pretty good. Probably Bona too, as he only voted Chaqa early in the day.

We would be quite unlucky for it to be TvTvT. I propose we dk Jasnah tomorrow.

Why Jasnah over Jamie from your perspective? Also, is it really so unlikely to be TvTvT that we should dismiss the possibility all together?

[damo666]

The bot has emc as a live player

[celaph]

As the GM have given me a second chance (thanks GM) I will post my read from the DK.

I suspect any vet player that pushed Chaqa's kill. Chaqa as scum lurks, buss all his team to win, use real life excuses and get caught, but don't do this kind of shenanigan. I can't believe players like Vecna, Jamiet and Brain really believe Chaqa was scum doing a weird play that will result in lot of pressure D2 just for the giggs. Ghug get a bit of a pass because he moved at the end when it was clearly between Chaqa and Jamiet.

That's were I would start tomorrow if I am alive.

I feel like there's a large contingent of us at this point who want to kill Chaqa for his bullshit in the hopes that he'll stop pulling his bullshit.

Yes, a game where town is probably the weakest faction seems a good moment to push a policy kill. I agree that it's a bullshit play (and told so), but there is no reason to push Chaqa's death on D1. Why aren't we policy killing lurkers or people that didn't vote?

[celaph]

was the scum one m50?
i think thats where i remember them from

In M54 you were goon and he was watcher. In M53 you were VT and he was mafia. Fox didn't play in M50.

okay i have no clue which game is which, or i may be mixing him up with someone else
but im fairly sure he had a spreadsheet once

Cool. I can safely ignore Bob's meta comments on Fox.

[Jamiet99uk]

Well. I assume from the GM's post that EMC was jailed or otherwise told not to communicate, and he attempted to circumvent those rules. That's rather unfortunate. Silly boy, EMC.

I guess if we have to lose VTs, at least both VTs we've lost were Millers so the Deputy is potentially gaining usefulness...

emc was a vt?

I have no idea.

Hellenic Riot and Chaqa were both Millers, can't you read?

[rdrivera2005]

vecna is still alive. his reads suck or hes evil.

I think it's the second.

##vote Vecna

[Maniac]

RIP HR & EMC

I meant to get on before EON to give a read.

A think Foxtail is scum. He was around EOD1 but didn't choose between the main wagons. When I asked him about this he said it's good to have votes spread out D1. I can't get my breath at this comment. If town spread their votes in a game like this with six mafia who have daychat, then mafia can win easily. I don't often scum read people for bad play, but this is so awful and I rate Foxtail as a player and can't believe he could play so badly. ##vote Foxtail

[Vecna]

vecna is still alive. his reads suck or hes evil.

Im like 50 pages behind. I had a tryhard game that ended 12h before this game.

Im taking it easy. You pretending my reads are shit just because im suspicious of you is whatever.

Feel free to solve the game yourself and not rely on me to do it for once

[rdrivera2005]

I feel like there's a large contingent of us at this point who want to kill Chaqa for his bullshit in the hopes that he'll stop pulling his bullshit.

Yes, a game where town is probably the weakest faction seems a good moment to push a policy kill. I agree that it's a bullshit play (and told so), but there is no reason to push Chaqa's death on D1. Why aren't we policy killing lurkers or people that didn't vote?

Thanks. I swear I try to avoid that word and also to use the right pronouns, but I usually fail miserably.

[damo666]

So, D1 was either:
a) a TvTvT waste. In this case it's maybe worth looking at wagons that didn't materialize (all the high schoolers, strangely, and Vecna, who acts like one), but mostly it just sucks.
b) a jasnah save. This one's my favorite, at least pre-writing. First votes on jas were Chaqa/damo/bona/Fox, which put her tied for first, with only a Fox vote on Vecna in between (Jamie was in the lead here, so this could point to a Jamie/Fox team). This put her into a tie with Chaqa and Jamie. lfischl put Chaqa back ahead, emc tied it. Celaph put her in the lead, bona moved to tie it as he does. Brain put Chaqa in the lead. Bona moved back to tie it. Bunny and celaph moved to Jamie (putting him back in the running) and Chaqa (putting him in the lead) respectively. I moved to jasnah to tie it. Then thamrick jumps on Chaqa, Riot jumps on Jamie, and bona moves to tie again, making it 7-7-5. I, emc, and damo then pile on Chaqa in that order. In this scenario, I think damo, Fox, emc, and I look good (I always look good), emc and bona could go either way, and lfischl, brain, Bunny, thamrick, and Riot look bad. The fact that that many people would look bad makes me think there was a save involving a couple of scum and a couple of unwitting town.
c) a Jamie save, here I look pretty bad because I broke the tie. All those early voters on jasnah look not great, especially Fox because he also briefly tried to make Vecna competitive. Fischy still looks bad, brain too, maybe celaph, thamrick. Riot looks good, Bunny looks good. Bona's still hard to read based on the VCA, but probably a little better because he ended up killing the jasnah wagon to force a tie between Chaqa and Jamie.
d) a double save. lfischl, brain, thamrick, maybe me look bad here. Fox, emc, damo, Bunny, HR all look pretty good. Probably Bona too, as he only voted Chaqa early in the day.

We would be quite unlucky for it to be TvTvT. I propose we dk Jasnah tomorrow.

Why Jasnah over Jamie from your perspective? Also, is it really so unlikely to be TvTvT that we should dismiss the possibility all together?

We certainly shouldn't dismiss the possibility (and I didn't suggest as much). We have more (quasi) info on Jasnah now and she is not a sensible dk. I am still town reading Jamie atm so it may well have been TTT.

[BobMcBob]

In M54 you were goon and he was watcher. In M53 you were VT and he was mafia. Fox didn't play in M50.

okay i have no clue which game is which, or i may be mixing him up with someone else
but im fairly sure he had a spreadsheet once

Cool. I can safely ignore Bob's meta comments on Fox.

didnt plan to make many anyway, but probably wise

[jasnah]

@ celaph Where were you all N1? Just zero post and then show up start of D2 and talk talk talk?

I really hope someone has got investigation results. If I had a base pass I'd have used that shit, the longer you hold on to it the more likely it gets stolen.

[TheMadMonarch]

I haven't read since page 81, and I won't be online for the first half of D2. However:

##VOTE jamie
##END

[damo666]

The night reveal post says "several" deaths although only 2 are listed.

There must be at least another death that is unreported.

[celaph]

who do you scumread and why

jamie because of strange anger direction
lfischl for acting strange
at least one of vecna/bunny is likely to be scum
jasnah feels oddly different to last game in a scumleany way
foxc is mostly fine but had one post that gave off major bad vibes

How is lfischl acting strange?
Why do you say that about Vecna and Bunny?
What was that post from fox?

now bona

why are you spending so much time asking questions without making any actual contributions?
why are you scum?
who are your scumreads?

Some actually decent questions from the pair of them. They aren't that deep or cutting in any real way, but a good start and better than what they've been doing. It feels like they know that this is what they should be doing to get townread despite doing the exact opposite for most of the game. They're either suboptimal town or scum and I kind of want to flip one and see.