Mafia 1016: America's Past-Crime [HIDDEN]

[Jamiet99uk]

This question becomes a lot easier to answer after we see Durga's flip imo. Regardless, I dont see why she'd focus on damo while there was a much easier Bozo wagon there.

I agree, and I want to flip Durga, but right now, don't you think it's interesting / weird, having seen Kgray play several times before, how she didn't question Damo while yelling for people to join his wagon?

Sort of invalidates my earlier question, but im guessing its because of personal reasons and she just likes playing with Bozo and Durga and didnt want to see them as competing wagons.

You are saying that Town Kgray would push a Damo wagon, when she had no strong reason for suspecting Damo, just because she's matey with Durga and/or Bozo outside of the game and wants to keep them around regardless of their alignment?

Really?

[Jamiet99uk]

These are really, really bad responses from Vecna and my townread on him is fading.

Vecna / Kgray scumteam?

[Jamiet99uk]

im guessing its because of personal reasons and she just likes playing with Bozo and Durga

This would be totally unlike the Kgray I've seen before, protecting her friends for personal reasons unrelated to the game. Surely she's a much better player than that. A really weird suggestion.

I also had no idea she knew Bozo personally. Were they both at college together with Chaqa?

[Jamiet99uk]

UPDATED Group 1 scum-ranking:

Kgray
Durga
Vecna
Bonato
Celaf

##VOITE KGRAY

[Jamiet99uk]

* ##VOTE KGRAY

(Correcting typo)

[Jamiet99uk]

CASE ON KGRAY - A SUMMARY:

Kgray voted Damo out of nowhere, with no case, no explanation, nothing.

When Dargorygel asked Kgray about Damo's plan for the Question Asker, Kgray said this was NAI.

When asked why she was voting for Damo, Kgray said she didn't have a good explanation.

When pressed further, Kgray said Damo "seemed to be lying low", and this was the best reason she could offer.

Later, Kgray said to Durga that Damo was scummy for voting her.

As EoD approached, Kgray gave the Damo wagon another push by indicating she didn't want to vote for Bozo (but gave no other reason for Damo to be scum).

Kgray then repeated the fact that she didn't like Damo's vote for Durga.

During EoD Kgray repeatedly advocated for Damo votes. She practically begged Brainbomb to vote for him. And yet, all this time, she presented no strong reason for a Damo scumread, and Kgray didn't ask Damo a single meaningful question.

All of this is totally out of character for the sharp, questioning, inquisitive Town Kgray I've seen before.

SCUM

[Vecna]

Maybe she saw that I also had suspicions of Damo and felt it was a potential counterwagon. I dont think he was around to answer questions when the wagon was started? (I havent reread the last hour of EoD in great detail yet, but did see he popped in briefly to object).

I really dont see how this surprises you Jamiet. We try to find common ground on kill targets in plenty of games.

If you and Bozo are town, it was a fine kill. If Durga is scum and saved, it still provided all the shit we need to unravel it. I dont think she'd start a new wagon on Damo and ignore the Bozo wagon if she was trying to save a scum Durga.

I dont see any scum motivation here?

[Jamiet99uk]

I think this is a good case.

If you don't agree, feel free to vote for Durga or Vecna.

[Vecna]

im guessing its because of personal reasons and she just likes playing with Bozo and Durga

This would be totally unlike the Kgray I've seen before, protecting her friends for personal reasons unrelated to the game. Surely she's a much better player than that. A really weird suggestion.

I also had no idea she knew Bozo personally. Were they both at college together with Chaqa?

Its also an issue of competence Jamiet. Save the better players so they can contribute.

(disclaimer: I do not share these views).

Anyways, direct your questions at her lol. Im not Rdrivera.

[Jamiet99uk]

Its also an issue of competence Jamiet. Save the better players so they can contribute.

Oh sure because Durga is contributing so much.

You're funny.

[Vecna]

I vaguely recall another game where she was laying low D1 to be MPV D3. You might have some memories of that game yourself

And you know just as well that Durga can be very useful as town. Its not like Kgray was the only one trying to save Durga D1 for that reason.

[Vecna]

Anyways, at least this little interaction was valuable since it completely evaporated any illusions that you could be scum here.

[bozotheclown]

@Bozotheclown
@Vecna

What do you think about my observations on Kgray, and specifically the way she pushed the Damo wagon without (a) having a good reason for it, and (b) without asking him any questions?

I'd really like your thoughts, and if possible I'd like you to specifically address both (a) and (b).

Thank you in advance.

kgray's D1 voting looks suspicious, but she did give reasons for voting for damo, and although she said herself they were not strong reasons, I do not think they were unreasonable for D1. kgray did ask damo some questions near EOD when damo was defending himself.

[Vecna]

How are you gonna approach tomorrow if Durga flips scum, Bozo?

[bozotheclown]

im guessing its because of personal reasons and she just likes playing with Bozo and Durga

This would be totally unlike the Kgray I've seen before, protecting her friends for personal reasons unrelated to the game. Surely she's a much better player than that. A really weird suggestion.

I also had no idea she knew Bozo personally. Were they both at college together with Chaqa?

No, we were once on the same curling team.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Bozotheclown
@Vecna

What do you think about my observations on Kgray, and specifically the way she pushed the Damo wagon without (a) having a good reason for it, and (b) without asking him any questions?

I'd really like your thoughts, and if possible I'd like you to specifically address both (a) and (b).

Thank you in advance.

kgray's D1 voting looks suspicious, but she did give reasons for voting for damo, and although she said herself they were not strong reasons, I do not think they were unreasonable for D1. kgray did ask damo some questions near EOD when damo was defending himself.

Her reasons were "he seems to be lying low" and "he is voting for Durga". Super weak stuff.

The only question she asked him was why he was voting for Durga.

[bozotheclown]

CASE ON KGRAY - A SUMMARY:

Kgray voted Damo out of nowhere, with no case, no explanation, nothing.

When Dargorygel asked Kgray about Damo's plan for the Question Asker, Kgray said this was NAI.

When asked why she was voting for Damo, Kgray said she didn't have a good explanation.

When pressed further, Kgray said Damo "seemed to be lying low", and this was the best reason she could offer.

Later, Kgray said to Durga that Damo was scummy for voting her.

As EoD approached, Kgray gave the Damo wagon another push by indicating she didn't want to vote for Bozo (but gave no other reason for Damo to be scum).

Kgray then repeated the fact that she didn't like Damo's vote for Durga.

During EoD Kgray repeatedly advocated for Damo votes. She practically begged Brainbomb to vote for him. And yet, all this time, she presented no strong reason for a Damo scumread, and Kgray didn't ask Damo a single meaningful question.

All of this is totally out of character for the sharp, questioning, inquisitive Town Kgray I've seen before.

SCUM

Before voting for damo the first time, kgray had agreed with rdrivera that damo was "laying too low" and had questioned damo's reads list, so I do not think it is accurate to say her vote was without any explanation.

[bozotheclown]

How are you gonna approach tomorrow if Durga flips scum, Bozo?

If Durga is scum, I think those who voted for every possible counter wagon (you, Bonatogether, and celaph) look suspect.

[dargorygel]

I find Jaimei... er... jeimai... er.. .Jamie's case compelling.
##VOTE KGRAY

Further, of the five
Kgray/Durga
Vecna
Bonatogether
Celeph

the players who would do the most potential damage to town's reasoning as hiding scum:
Kgray
Vecna
Bona
Celaph
Durga

[dargorygel]

(Bot Note: I am working on it, now that I have caught up reading overnight. Hopefully it is an easy fix.)