MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Hamilton Brian]

I am the loud doctor
I will not say my visits as they know who I am
all I can tell you is I did not save damo last night so I can tonight

[kgray]

I am the loud doctor
I will not say my visits as they know who I am
all I can tell you is I did not save damo last night so I can tonight

[ghug]

Kgray claimed my role please kill her tomorrow if I'm dead.

[kgray]

Kgray claimed my role please kill her tomorrow if I'm dead.

Nah I just CC'd Hamilton's CC of your CC.

[Maniac]

I’m the loud doctor and so is my wife.

Yes I know it’s an old joke

[BobMcBob]

Oh boy a relatively new player who is yet to really find their feet in mafia and regularly gets confused hasn't made any deep, insightful comments indicating that they have utilised their experience with the game to the benefit of town. Um, what was your case again? Macca isn't exactly the towniest person ever, but lack of towniness doesn't mean scumminess, especially in this case.

Luckily however, they aren't a total newbie and so instead of just deflecting and dismissing arguments under some premise of newbie incompetence, we can just compare performances.

Let me cherry pick out two messages from M61. The first is a defense and justification of Maniac's play. They analyze his actions and come to a conclusion that was unpopular among the town (see the message above). They consider his incentives as both town and scum for making such a play. And they acted on both of those aspects in a fashion that is internally consistent. For another example, see how they contributed to a wagon on Seth. Not only did they read the case and like it, they drew connections with the already made case to other comments and observations to further it. They commented on how Seth's impacts their conclusions.

Compare that to some of their notable comments this game. Besides the colors, their D2 reads list is purely parroting thoughts others have had. I feel similarly about their D1 reads list save the line "I didn't like the Bunny-Ghug go-between. I do not think these two are on the same team (including TT)." Beyond that, their comments have been very surface level, a fact we seem to agree on.

They're clearly capable of deep and insightful comments as they've made them in the past as town. One does not have to have fully found their feet in order to synthesize information can come to conclusions beyond what has already been said.

Could he have been coached to make this remark? I don't see how celaph would know the details of previous games.

In case you've forgotten, celaph is that one dude who bases all his logic on previous games and constantly links to them. Has done so all game.

@celaph I agree that Macca isn't exhibiting much towniness, however I don't think that is necessarily indicative of being scum. At worst I'd give them mild scumlean for this. That is insignificant right now compared to the amount of scumminess on multiple other people.

[Bonatogether]

Luckily however, they aren't a total newbie and so instead of just deflecting and dismissing arguments under some premise of newbie incompetence, we can just compare performances.

Let me cherry pick out two messages from M61. The first is a defense and justification of Maniac's play. They analyze his actions and come to a conclusion that was unpopular among the town (see the message above). They consider his incentives as both town and scum for making such a play. And they acted on both of those aspects in a fashion that is internally consistent. For another example, see how they contributed to a wagon on Seth. Not only did they read the case and like it, they drew connections with the already made case to other comments and observations to further it. They commented on how Seth's impacts their conclusions.

Compare that to some of their notable comments this game. Besides the colors, their D2 reads list is purely parroting thoughts others have had. I feel similarly about their D1 reads list save the line "I didn't like the Bunny-Ghug go-between. I do not think these two are on the same team (including TT)." Beyond that, their comments have been very surface level, a fact we seem to agree on.

They're clearly capable of deep and insightful comments as they've made them in the past as town. One does not have to have fully found their feet in order to synthesize information can come to conclusions beyond what has already been said.

Could he have been coached to make this remark? I don't see how celaph would know the details of previous games.

In case you've forgotten, celaph is that one dude who bases all his logic on previous games and constantly links to them. Has done so all game.

@celaph I agree that Macca isn't exhibiting much towniness, however I don't think that is necessarily indicative of being scum. At worst I'd give them mild scumlean for this. That is insignificant right now compared to the amount of scumminess on multiple other people.

Celaph has dug up remarks from earlier, and from past games he was in, but nothing before that. This is new.

[Ezio]

gdi ghug.

[ghug]

gdi ghug.

I think you said ghug when you meant "us".

[Maniac]

Grab yourselves a cup of tea guys, girls and non-binaries. This is going to be a long ass post.

I can’t see me voting for anyone else apart from Celaph tomorrow (Yes I’m assuming I’m still going to be alive – think all non-town actors will see me as an easy mis-daykill so won’t waste a NK on me. If I’m wrong and I’m pushing up the daisies tomorrow, please don’t ignore this last testament.

So Celaph just has to be alien at this point. HR came under some pressure on D2 yet choose to commit mafia suicide by deliberately tying the vote. That could only be to protect Celaph. If anyone wants to argue that HR drew the wrath of town by saving a townie, mafia or SK then it’s time to go back to mafia school. Yes Kgray, I’m being patronising and condescending again. Why HR thought he could get away with it? I really don’t know – perhaps hubris, perhaps he figured we’d buy his jailkeeper gambit. Who knows? But he has been caught and we have to act on the information that has presented. So ##votecelaph.

From here on I’m assuming Celaph is alien when assessing what that tells us about other players.

Kgray first:
Day one in the Z-files house 16minutes from EOD Kgray decides Buuny is probably town and starts the Celaph wagon that quickly becomes the runaway train. I’m not sure Kgray could’ve anticipated that but nor could she step away without looking super scummy. So she stayed on to the end and Celaph survived by the skin of Bonatogether’s teeth.

D2 – exhibit A. I invite all to ISO Kgray and search for Celaph. Here are the edited highlights:
Pg 153 – “I could get behind a celaph wagon again.”,
Pg 156 – “I agree with this and fully support a celaph wagon.”
Pg157 – “What do you think about Bunny's suggestion of putting celaph up to determine whether we have the psychotrooper?”
Pg157 – “Well. I think ghug and celaph are scum together, and I think killing celaph tells us whether or not we can trust scans, so he's a good target regardless.”
Pg160 – “I think celaph is a good kill because I scumread him and he tells us whether the scans are messed up or not, yes.”
Pg161 – “I think you're mafia and celaph is the underdog, yeah.”
Pg162 – “Okay, I'm going to stop taking over the thread with this. I think we should kill celaph today so we can know asap if town can trust their scans. If celaph is actually town then that sucks, but I don't think he is, and I think it's worth it to know about the psychotrooper role regardless.”
Pg184 – “Okay, well I still think celaph is scum :)”
Pg191 – “If celaph claims PR we kill him immediately, since he already claimed VT.”
Pg195 – “People who are scummy: ghug, celaph, damo, HR”
Pg199 – “But I think he's [Celaph] a great wagon and a good daykill.”
Pg 205 – 9mins to EOD “Celaph moving off his counterwagon gets townpoints”
Pg207 – 2mins to EOD “oh my god vote for HR people. I don't want celaph to die.”
Also at 2mins to EOD I vote Celaph making it 7 Celaph, 5 Ezio. Celaph and HR jump on Ezio and the tie is forced.

In summary Kgray spent days and days scum reading celaph and advocating his daykill for info and then 10mins before EOD refused to make that kill happen and left her vote on HR who only had 3 votes at the time.

If Celaph flips alien (He will) then Kgray will flip alien too.

Other people who look suspicious for voting for Celaph D1 and then not voting for him D2 when he would have been a better kill are; Donny Duke, Demon RHK and Jasnah. Jasnah is probably the most suspicious because she enabled Celaph and HR to make the late switches to Ezio to save Celaph.

I’d be really surprised if Bunny or Ghug are aliens. Ghug in particular. Assuming that aliens have a prober then Ghug being RB d1 is good indicator he isn’t alien and as aliens haven’t tried to daykill or NK ghug as far as I’m aware, I doubt they have a guilty scan. So I’m townreading Ghug.

I don’t need to talk about Damo666 or HB. If they are faking stuff somehow I'd be very surprised.

Macca is an interesting one. On the one hand if he is telling truth about the RB then he isn’t an alien (again assuming we have a prober in play), but also he wasn’t the mafia’s killer last night either if Damo is to be believed about been saved. Unless of course they (mafia and Aliens) both targeted Damo? Macca maybe RB and doc saved damo from alien NK. Which would be great if they have used that already. What I don’t understand is if aliens tried to kill Damo, why not RB the doc? Such a waste of their only NK.

Out of the rest, vecna doesn’t look great, more likely alien than mafia. Brainbomb is much calmer than usual, possibly doesn’t want attention. Thanks for nice words earlier BB. BobMcBob seems town. Rdriveria, E.m.c and Bonatogether are fairly null. Bonatogether seems to think there is a swarm of aliens.

Tl:dr – Daykill Celaph, if alien then kill Kgray, if alien you can all buy me a beer someday. Kgray prides herself on having an unblemished scum game. Don’t let them win.

[e.m.c^42]

Poor Ezio, hello.

[Donny Dude]

##CALLGM The bot is broken enough to warrant contacting Peter, in case you weren't aware yet. I'm guessing it was the deleting of messages.

I'm on it.
It has effected the page referencing... I am hoping it will not effect vote counts. I have contacted Master Peter.

You need to contact saint Peter also at not a robot way, techoheaven.

[brainbomb]

donny is here
lets get him

[damo666]

Towny post from Maniac there.

[ghug]

donny is here
lets get him

I hardclaim Donny.

[Donny Dude]

donny is here
lets get him

What is going on?

[Donny Dude]

donny is here
lets get him

I hardclaim Donny.

lol

[brainbomb]

https://youtu.be/XJPaCIOYC7k

[Donny Dude]

Grab yourselves a cup of tea guys, girls and non-binaries. This is going to be a long ass post.

I can’t see me voting for anyone else apart from Celaph tomorrow (Yes I’m assuming I’m still going to be alive – think all non-town actors will see me as an easy mis-daykill so won’t waste a NK on me. If I’m wrong and I’m pushing up the daisies tomorrow, please don’t ignore this last testament.

So Celaph just has to be alien at this point. HR came under some pressure on D2 yet choose to commit mafia suicide by deliberately tying the vote. That could only be to protect Celaph. If anyone wants to argue that HR drew the wrath of town by saving a townie, mafia or SK then it’s time to go back to mafia school. Yes Kgray, I’m being patronising and condescending again. Why HR thought he could get away with it? I really don’t know – perhaps hubris, perhaps he figured we’d buy his jailkeeper gambit. Who knows? But he has been caught and we have to act on the information that has presented. So ##votecelaph.

From here on I’m assuming Celaph is alien when assessing what that tells us about other players.

Kgray first:
Day one in the Z-files house 16minutes from EOD Kgray decides Buuny is probably town and starts the Celaph wagon that quickly becomes the runaway train. I’m not sure Kgray could’ve anticipated that but nor could she step away without looking super scummy. So she stayed on to the end and Celaph survived by the skin of Bonatogether’s teeth.

D2 – exhibit A. I invite all to ISO Kgray and search for Celaph. Here are the edited highlights:
Pg 153 – “I could get behind a celaph wagon again.”,
Pg 156 – “I agree with this and fully support a celaph wagon.”
Pg157 – “What do you think about Bunny's suggestion of putting celaph up to determine whether we have the psychotrooper?”
Pg157 – “Well. I think ghug and celaph are scum together, and I think killing celaph tells us whether or not we can trust scans, so he's a good target regardless.”
Pg160 – “I think celaph is a good kill because I scumread him and he tells us whether the scans are messed up or not, yes.”
Pg161 – “I think you're mafia and celaph is the underdog, yeah.”
Pg162 – “Okay, I'm going to stop taking over the thread with this. I think we should kill celaph today so we can know asap if town can trust their scans. If celaph is actually town then that sucks, but I don't think he is, and I think it's worth it to know about the psychotrooper role regardless.”
Pg184 – “Okay, well I still think celaph is scum :)”
Pg191 – “If celaph claims PR we kill him immediately, since he already claimed VT.”
Pg195 – “People who are scummy: ghug, celaph, damo, HR”
Pg199 – “But I think he's [Celaph] a great wagon and a good daykill.”
Pg 205 – 9mins to EOD “Celaph moving off his counterwagon gets townpoints”
Pg207 – 2mins to EOD “oh my god vote for HR people. I don't want celaph to die.”
Also at 2mins to EOD I vote Celaph making it 7 Celaph, 5 Ezio. Celaph and HR jump on Ezio and the tie is forced.

In summary Kgray spent days and days scum reading celaph and advocating his daykill for info and then 10mins before EOD refused to make that kill happen and left her vote on HR who only had 3 votes at the time.

If Celaph flips alien (He will) then Kgray will flip alien too.

Other people who look suspicious for voting for Celaph D1 and then not voting for him D2 when he would have been a better kill are; Donny Duke, Demon RHK and Jasnah. Jasnah is probably the most suspicious because she enabled Celaph and HR to make the late switches to Ezio to save Celaph.

I’d be really surprised if Bunny or Ghug are aliens. Ghug in particular. Assuming that aliens have a prober then Ghug being RB d1 is good indicator he isn’t alien and as aliens haven’t tried to daykill or NK ghug as far as I’m aware, I doubt they have a guilty scan. So I’m townreading Ghug.

I don’t need to talk about Damo666 or HB. If they are faking stuff somehow I'd be very surprised.

Macca is an interesting one. On the one hand if he is telling truth about the RB then he isn’t an alien (again assuming we have a prober in play), but also he wasn’t the mafia’s killer last night either if Damo is to be believed about been saved. Unless of course they (mafia and Aliens) both targeted Damo? Macca maybe RB and doc saved damo from alien NK. Which would be great if they have used that already. What I don’t understand is if aliens tried to kill Damo, why not RB the doc? Such a waste of their only NK.

Out of the rest, vecna doesn’t look great, more likely alien than mafia. Brainbomb is much calmer than usual, possibly doesn’t want attention. Thanks for nice words earlier BB. BobMcBob seems town. Rdriveria, E.m.c and Bonatogether are fairly null. Bonatogether seems to think there is a swarm of aliens.

Tl:dr – Daykill Celaph, if alien then kill Kgray, if alien you can all buy me a beer someday. Kgray prides herself on having an unblemished scum game. Don’t let them win.

Maniac, but at eod2 hr claimed he had a mechanically confirmed scum read on kgray and that she was not town. Do you believe hr would do that to someone on his scumteam as an alien? With kgray in your theory also being an alien.

[Maniac]

Snip

Tl:dr – Daykill Celaph, if alien then kill Kgray, if alien you can all buy me a beer someday. Kgray prides herself on having an unblemished scum game. Don’t let them win.

Maniac, but at eod2 hr claimed he had a mechanically confirmed scum read on kgray and that she was not town. Do you believe hr would do that to someone on his scumteam as an alien? With kgray in your theory also being an alien.

I wouldn’t pay too much attention to lying aliens