MAFIA 64 - The Z Files - Game Thread [HIDDEN]

[Donny Dude]

What about maniac play is towny?

[celaph]

You disagree that we only have 1 scum team, and an SK or 2?

Treating a small scumteam as an sk is a bad approach to take because they have more than 1 vote and almost certainly have various special abilities that they can use to screw with town

How many mafia can there be? I'm guessing 1...

I'm inclined to believe that the high number of mafia discard claims indicate that a higher than average number of mafia roles were given out which means that we should be looking for a team of 2-3. Certainly small and we should be looking for that, but not alone.

[Bonatogether]

Treating a small scumteam as an sk is a bad approach to take because they have more than 1 vote and almost certainly have various special abilities that they can use to screw with town

How many mafia can there be? I'm guessing 1...

I'm inclined to believe that the high number of mafia discard claims indicate that a higher than average number of mafia roles were given out which means that we should be looking for a team of 2-3. Certainly small and we should be looking for that, but not alone.

What do you think it indicates about the size of the aliens?

[kgray]

What about maniac play is towny?

Not much, but imo this is how he's been as town in past games. Maybe slightly less involved, as Rivera and maybe ghug pointed out, but otherwise very similar.

[BobMcBob]

DemonRHK is a mason. you shouldnt be voting him

Ahhhhh, so that was why? This good explanation thankee.

[kgray]

As I've said before, I townlean ghug for his vote movement and thought that I haven't seen from scum ghug.

Okay, you did say his votes were towny to you, although I still don't agree with or understand why that's your opinion if you thought he didn't care who died in a TvT.

You were scumreading ghug for basically all of D1 because you thought he didn't seem solvey. Do you still feel that way?

[celaph]

I think they're going to be hunting each other, yes, but they still mostly just need to hang back and not die. Part of that also depends on how many are on each team, I think, but in general it's harder in this game to figure out who's faking it because they can still be "solving" but at the end of the day it's not their priority.

I pretty strongly disagree with this. Since it's day 2 I feel more comfortable talking about optimal scumplay since they've already been able to talk in their QT.

I think they absolutely should be at the forefront of scumhunting, leading the charge as much as possible on the other team.

It's normally a bad idea to scumhunt as scum b/c you have perfect information and it's very hard to look natural while doing it. It's very difficult to tunnel convincingly when you know you're talking out of your ass, for example. If you get caught with extra information, it's lights out.

In this game, scum have limited information. I believe they absolutely should be pushing as much as they possibly can as frequently as they possibly can because of how much easier it is. Their priority is obviously getting townread still, but scumhunting (and catching a scum) is probably the #1 way to get townread on this forum.

Okay. I'm not entirely sure I agree with you. In games I've played, I think successful scum are typically those who hang back and watch.

But assuming you're right, what is your suggestion? That we hunt by looking for the most active hunters? Or are you saying we just have nothing to go off of until we get a scum flip?

From what I've heard from others you make such good scum because you're good at appearing to hunt. Do you disagree? If your concern is that most people who've tried that fail, isn't that exactly Ezio's point? I don't know if I agree if they should be pushing as much as they can, but I see no reason not to hunt.

[BobMcBob]

Okay now I searched the bot and I'm confused. I'm just gonna let this issue rot on the sidelines. Don't like emc vote very much, ghug might be good though.

[kgray]

From what I've heard from others you make such good scum because you're good at appearing to hunt. Do you disagree? If your concern is that most people who've tried that fail, isn't that exactly Ezio's point? I don't know if I agree if they should be pushing as much as they can, but I see no reason not to hunt.

I think I'm good at scum because I'm relatively good at mimicking my town tendencies. This is becoming less effective as people figure me out, and I don't know exactly what it is, but I don't know if it's mostly appearing to hunt.

My original point to bona was that I think scum are more successful by sitting back and watching town murder itself. Look at Chaqa in your first game lmao. And I didn't think that would change that much in this game, even with two factions, because at the end of the day scum just need to outlive everyone.

Ezio's point, I believe, was that they have more cover in this game because they can still hunt, and that if they're playing optimally they'll be doing that to try to blend in. Basically warning me not to look for the same coasting behavior that scum often get away with.

[celaph]

What about maniac play is towny?

Early game he made a reasonable point about not killing ghug. He makes a good point about not voting for Bozo and engaged in reasonable conversation defending it. It not much compared to others, but it's more than I'm used to seeing.

The scummy part of Maniac is his voting behavior. He voted rdr because 3-way ties are fun and then voted me because he hadn't played with lfischl before.

[Bonatogether]

Hi celaph! Do you mind answering my question?

[celaph]

How many mafia can there be? I'm guessing 1...

I'm inclined to believe that the high number of mafia discard claims indicate that a higher than average number of mafia roles were given out which means that we should be looking for a team of 2-3. Certainly small and we should be looking for that, but not alone.

What do you think it indicates about the size of the aliens?

As written says very little about the aliens. If you wanted to extrapolate then I would guess 3-4 aliens, but the margin of error in that and which aliens is much higher this game.

I think either way, the take away is that at least one of our scum teams will be very opposed to bussing and possibly both.

[Bonatogether]

I'm inclined to believe that the high number of mafia discard claims indicate that a higher than average number of mafia roles were given out which means that we should be looking for a team of 2-3. Certainly small and we should be looking for that, but not alone.

What do you think it indicates about the size of the aliens?

As written says very little about the aliens. If you wanted to extrapolate then I would guess 3-4 aliens, but the margin of error in that and which aliens is much higher this game.

I think either way, the take away is that at least one of our scum teams will be very opposed to bussing and possibly both.

Do you think the aliens are claiming mafia discards?

[celaph]

As I've said before, I townlean ghug for his vote movement and thought that I haven't seen from scum ghug.

Okay, you did say his votes were towny to you, although I still don't agree with or understand why that's your opinion if you thought he didn't care who died in a TvT.

You were scumreading ghug for basically all of D1 because you thought he didn't seem solvey. Do you still feel that way?

He is trending downwards D2 for this reason, but not as fast for me as the people voting him. I get the feeling that he is playing weird intentionally at the moment, though the question is obviously why. If I had to guess I think he's fishing for reactions around his roleblocked claim.

[celaph]

Can someone who has played with ezio know if he is better as scum/town and which one he enjoys more?

Ezio lives for mechanics, so I imagine he'd pick whatever role appealed to him most.

He's very smart, but he struggles to convince people of things, so he's very hit or miss as any alignment.

He got me to give him the win as scum at KILO once by not posting for nearly the whole phase after I came in scumreading him.

Do you think Ezio would consider town doctor a mechanically boring role?

[celaph]

What do you think it indicates about the size of the aliens?

As written says very little about the aliens. If you wanted to extrapolate then I would guess 3-4 aliens, but the margin of error in that and which aliens is much higher this game.

I think either way, the take away is that at least one of our scum teams will be very opposed to bussing and possibly both.

Do you think the aliens are claiming mafia discards?

If they are it's because they honestly got an alien and a mafia. For all the reasons mentioned earlier, I would find it really dubious if someone claimed a discard that was neither of their cards unless that discard was mafia goon or town VT.

[Bonatogether]

As written says very little about the aliens. If you wanted to extrapolate then I would guess 3-4 aliens, but the margin of error in that and which aliens is much higher this game.

I think either way, the take away is that at least one of our scum teams will be very opposed to bussing and possibly both.

Do you think the aliens are claiming mafia discards?

If they are it's because they honestly got an alien and a mafia. For all the reasons mentioned earlier, I would find it really dubious if someone claimed a discard that was neither of their cards unless that discard was mafia goon or town VT.

There are greater than average goon discards being claimed, so isn't it a logical conclusion to assume that there is at least one alien among the goon claims?

And isn't it odd, then, that there are only two VT discard claims?

[ghug]

Can someone who has played with ezio know if he is better as scum/town and which one he enjoys more?

Ezio lives for mechanics, so I imagine he'd pick whatever role appealed to him most.

He's very smart, but he struggles to convince people of things, so he's very hit or miss as any alignment.

He got me to give him the win as scum at KILO once by not posting for nearly the whole phase after I came in scumreading him.

Do you think Ezio would consider town doctor a mechanically boring role?

It's pretty standard, so quite possibly.

[ghug]

Do you think the aliens are claiming mafia discards?

If they are it's because they honestly got an alien and a mafia. For all the reasons mentioned earlier, I would find it really dubious if someone claimed a discard that was neither of their cards unless that discard was mafia goon or town VT.

There are greater than average goon discards being claimed, so isn't it a logical conclusion to assume that there is at least one alien among the goon claims?

And isn't it odd, then, that there are only two VT discard claims?

Not especially.

There's reason not to claim VT discard, as it means you're likely not a VT and should be targeted. I pushed to just claim scum discards for a reason. It's also entirely possible people chose VT over the scum roles they discarded.

[Donny Dude]

What about maniac play is towny?

Early game he made a reasonable point about not killing ghug. He makes a good point about not voting for Bozo and engaged in reasonable conversation defending it. It not much compared to others, but it's more than I'm used to seeing.

The scummy part of Maniac is his voting behavior. He voted rdr because 3-way ties are fun and then voted me because he hadn't played with lfischl before.

eah that is true, but recently he has not been active and honestly forgot he was playing for a moment which I don't remember being a thing for him.