M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[Vecna]

Well its day4 with no scum deaths yet. Convincingly bussing today would quite likely get them to go the distance afterwards with no more deaths if we didnt have this little moment.

[dargorygel]

it might be prudent to have the double voter claim right now, since if we do not hit scum today, tomorrow could be mylo (and we really dont wanna be put in a position there that we have to decide on the spot if its town or scum).

I was thinking through the massclaim idea, wondering if it is time. But the main value of a massclaim to me at this point was to know where the DV is, for safety. We know we can protect them, assuming Jamie is who he claims. Perhaps just asking the DV to claim would be all we need?

I'd be interested in hearing others on this.

[damo666]

Well, things calmed down.

@Jamie, I believe you. Could you explain why you claimed at this time?

First, I felt it was of some benefit to town to know understand the night's events, and secondly, I couldn't bear the prospect of Ghug tunnelling me again for a whole day and wasting yet more of town's time, and thirdly there is still another FH out there, who could choose to save me tonight if they wish, thus presenting the scum with a dilemma (which is actually a more complex dilemma than it initially seems!).

If the other FH is scum you are doomed.

If the other FH is town they should heal you and you should not heal yourself (otherwise the healing won't work). You should either save Vecna if you townread him or the person with an unknown role that you townread the most. I would suggest me.

I hope I have this right and if you are already thinking along these lines sorry for stating the obvious.

[dargorygel]

Well its day4 with no scum deaths yet. Convincingly bussing today would quite likely get them to go the distance afterwards with no more deaths if we didnt have this little moment.

Especially since she is starting to crumble.

[Vecna]

darg, im very happy you suddenly became obvtown. makes this game so much easier

[Vecna]

I suddenly went from feeling very doomy/gloomy over this game to thinking were gonna win this shit

[damo666]

1. I chose to protect myself last night, thinking that Maniac would target me.
2. Maniac was killed, and he was the Vengeful.
3. I got a message telling me that I had successfully saved my target (i.e. myself) from death.
4. Nobody else died.

So it's 100% confirmed that Maniac targeted me, Maniac was the scum NK target, and I would have died too if I hadn't protected myself. Unless you think I am lying about my role.

Ah OK. You only get a saved message if there was an attempt on your life? I don't think you would lie so you must have been the target.

Two things I don't understand:

1) Don't know why Maniac chose you, you've screamed town all game to me.
2) Why have you claimed? I see no advantage and assuming you are not lying you have set yourself up to be NKd (if scum can afford a RB). I don't get your play. And of course if you are not NK'd we'll have to condider DKing you.

I have answered question 2 very recently, Damoo,
aren't you reading the thread?

Yes I saw that, thanks. Twas a crosspost.

[dargorygel]

I am very confident of this line of thought, too. Although I am not going to announce Victory and ask scum to concede.

[Vecna]

jamiet/damo, thoughts on asking the double voter to claim?

it narrows down the second doc or diarist for scum, but theyre probably very close already with the knowledge of their own roles/alignment anyways combined with knowing me + rdrivera + jamiet + darg

[Vecna]

I am very confident of this line of thought, too. Although I am not going to announce Victory and ask scum to concede.

something about counting votes and giving us the opportunity to exercise our democratic rights?

[Vecna]

youre still suspicious about seth, correct Darg?

[dargorygel]

I am very confident of this line of thought, too. Although I am not going to announce Victory and ask scum to concede.

something about counting votes and giving us the opportunity to exercise our democratic rights?

Especially because we are swamped in this room with fake news.

[dargorygel]

youre still suspicious about seth, correct Darg?

Aye. And you see nothing but town, there, right?

[damo666]

jamiet/damo, thoughts on asking the double voter to claim?

it narrows down the second doc or diarist for scum, but theyre probably very close already with the knowledge of their own roles/alignment anyways combined with knowing me + rdrivera + jamiet + darg

It's fine if the other FH is town but if the other FH is scum then the DV would be setting themselves up for the NK. So I am against, I think it too risky.

[Vecna]

youre still suspicious about seth, correct Darg?

Aye. And you see nothing but town, there, right?

I have seen all the correct signals I saw there last game and I got miskilled for protecting them all game. ~I think~

I know im not infallible, far from it, but I have very good feelings there. Doubting myself from time to time because he's become so inactive, but theres potentially other reasons for that.

[dargorygel]

youre still suspicious about seth, correct Darg?

Aye. And you see nothing but town, there, right?

I do think your townread is stronger than my suspicion-level. Basically, my suspicions about seth center around his lack of any stands. He talks about radar and 'looking bad.' But comes short of any real conclusions. At the time, he and bunny were all I had. Not strongly felt in either case. So, while seth is on my 'do not go into the woods with' list, I'm not pushing him today.

[dargorygel]

@Jamie
Consider joining our progression. It DOES lead to chaqa, if all goes well.

[Vecna]

jamiet/damo, thoughts on asking the double voter to claim?

it narrows down the second doc or diarist for scum, but theyre probably very close already with the knowledge of their own roles/alignment anyways combined with knowing me + rdrivera + jamiet + darg

It's fine if the other FH is town but if the other FH is scum then the DV would be setting themselves up for the NK. So I am against, I think it too risky.

Ok, this post said something else initially, but I can see why you feel the role is important. I guess. Its an exchange for late game survivability and helping us solve currently and take away a potential very difficult decision tomorrow.

(initial post: i dont think the double voter is SUPER important to us regardless. It might give us an extra misskill if we get another docsave and he survives all the way to lylo, but atm its far more important to stop us from killing town.)

[Vecna]

youre still suspicious about seth, correct Darg?

Aye. And you see nothing but town, there, right?

I do think your townread is stronger than my suspicion-level. Basically, my suspicions about seth center around his lack of any stands. He talks about radar and 'looking bad.' But comes short of any real conclusions. At the time, he and bunny were all I had. Not strongly felt in either case. So, while seth is on my 'do not go into the woods with' list, I'm not pushing him today.

Yeah bunny and seth both have something similair going for them I feel. (seth much more so than bunny).

They both just feel like the typical flawed town playstyle. Town always feel flawed. But they both appear to be playing to their town meta from what I can tell. Seth early game was super aggressive in how he attacked and rediculed people.

Bunny has felt to take the same type of stances and have the same playstyle as his usual towngame ~but~ I feel he'd probably be very good at faking that stuff as scum as well. Also his volume is a lot lower, but that could very well be due to his RL stuff.

[dargorygel]

jamiet/damo, thoughts on asking the double voter to claim?

it narrows down the second doc or diarist for scum, but theyre probably very close already with the knowledge of their own roles/alignment anyways combined with knowing me + rdrivera + jamiet + darg

It's fine if the other FH is town but if the other FH is scum then the DV would be setting themselves up for the NK. So I am against, I think it too risky.

Ok, this post said something else initially, but I can see why you feel the role is important. I guess. Its an exchange for late game survivability and helping us solve currently and take away a potential very difficult decision tomorrow.

(initial post: i dont think the double voter is SUPER important to us regardless. It might give us an extra misskill if we get another docsave and he survives all the way to lylo, but atm its far more important to stop us from killing town.)

Upon further reflection... my fear of lylo is diminishing. So the DV should wait. That card can be played at any time. We do not need to help scum in their deliberations, especially because we do not know what evil lurks in their twisted planning minds.