M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[ghug]

Yet of the four lead wagons at EoD, three of them were as specified by Maniac.

The Maniac wagon only existed because you and bo are dumb. The other two were people he picked specifically because people were already voting for them.

I don't think this is entirely correct.

At the time Maniac made his declaration on Page 149 which limited the choices to Maniac / Seth / Bo_Sox, I believe that Kgray and Seth were tied on two votes each. That's how it appears from the bot. Plus, more than one person had declared that their vote, at that point in time, was only for the purpose of responding to Maniac's "survey".

So, given you previously scumread Kray, don't you blame Maniac for supressing potential votes on Kgray? It seems odd that you are not accusing Maniac of protecting Kray.

Maniac voted kgray to put her in the lead close to the end of the day. She led despite not being one of Maniac's options.

Seth voting bo could be protecting kgray, but I think it's also a good move from an information gathering perspective.

Damo's and rd's votes were both on bo for Maniac reasons. Seth never dropped below two even when he wasn't a maniac-approved wagon.

[ghug]

I would also like Chaqa to tell us why he spent a considerable amount of time and energy shouting at the GM about his strange interpretation of the UB rules and then, as soon as the GM confirmed the obvious, that Chaqa was wrong, he faded into the background and didn't contribute much more. That was a lot of fuss about fuck all, wasn't it, Chaqa?

This feels like scum Jamie.

[Chaqa]

I would also like Chaqa to tell us why he spent a considerable amount of time and energy shouting at the GM about his strange interpretation of the UB rules and then, as soon as the GM confirmed the obvious, that Chaqa was wrong, he faded into the background and didn't contribute much more. That was a lot of fuss about fuck all, wasn't it, Chaqa?

Because I think UB is a role scum could have and was pretty sure it wasn't being treated as written, and it irked me. Worcej and I had a discussion about it offline and while we disagree, I decided to shut up about it.

I don't think it's fair to say I faded into the background when I was the fourth highest poster on Day 3...

[TheMadMonarch]

I would also like Chaqa to tell us why he spent a considerable amount of time and energy shouting at the GM about his strange interpretation of the UB rules and then, as soon as the GM confirmed the obvious, that Chaqa was wrong, he faded into the background and didn't contribute much more. That was a lot of fuss about fuck all, wasn't it, Chaqa?

This feels like scum Jamie.

Maybe... but also, Chaqa's yelling at the GM and wasting time was weird, and I'm inclined to agree with what Jamie is saying.

[TheMadMonarch]

Can someone please inform me (because I still don't know) whether it's 3/4 mafia, or 4/5? (without recruit/with recruit).

3 / 4

Thanks!

[TheMadMonarch]

I am not thrilled with Maniac's game going all the way to EoD. Others have said this, though. And I do not 'get' his game (although I am thinking that he is charting people's choices/reactions... but I don't see the strong value.) But his game DID cause me to think about seth.
It took until page 56 for him to do more than call people 'null.' He said there that folk were ‘on his radar.’ But we haven’t seen radar/sonar/star trek sensors at all so far.
#1118 Post by seth24c » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:49 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:48 pm
seth24c wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:47 pm
I'm here. Still haven't been convinced on either wagon.
You must vote.

Who are your top scumreads?

Do you even have one?
All three of the top wagons have been on my radar. Can't decide whether flums reaction test was malicious or just a bad idea.


A few pages later in post 1354, he calls rdrivera ‘scummy.’ I cannot find any other reads that lead to anything but null, or at best, 'iffy,' or 'on his radar.'

This is not hedgy. This is not declaring anything, let alone declaring and backpedaling.

This is a game that feels a lot more like pure vanilla, yes? We have roles, but deducing them does not discover alignment. I think seth is scum who is trying to fly under the radar… even his own.

##VOTE SETH24C

This is really interesting to me.

This was over the time period I didn't see anything, so this is the first I hear of it.

It's a pretty strong case imo, and it just gets better.

Soon after this is posted, seth gets online, sees it, and this happens.

Bo is on my scumread list now because I also think he tried to townslip a couple pages back.

This happens as Maniac's game pushes people onto Bo_, and this satement just feels very forced.

Seth follows with other statements, but all of them seem sort of the same; they're all opinions that other people have recently had. I would be open to voting Seth tomorrow.

In fact, scratching my earlier opinion, Seth might even take the top spot of kgray.

[TheMadMonarch]

I would also like Chaqa to tell us why he spent a considerable amount of time and energy shouting at the GM about his strange interpretation of the UB rules and then, as soon as the GM confirmed the obvious, that Chaqa was wrong, he faded into the background and didn't contribute much more. That was a lot of fuss about fuck all, wasn't it, Chaqa?

Because I think UB is a role scum could have and was pretty sure it wasn't being treated as written, and it irked me. Worcej and I had a discussion about it offline and while we disagree, I decided to shut up about it.

I don't think it's fair to say I faded into the background when I was the fourth highest poster on Day 3...

Why would the scum take UB?

[Chaqa]

I would also like Chaqa to tell us why he spent a considerable amount of time and energy shouting at the GM about his strange interpretation of the UB rules and then, as soon as the GM confirmed the obvious, that Chaqa was wrong, he faded into the background and didn't contribute much more. That was a lot of fuss about fuck all, wasn't it, Chaqa?

Because I think UB is a role scum could have and was pretty sure it wasn't being treated as written, and it irked me. Worcej and I had a discussion about it offline and while we disagree, I decided to shut up about it.

I don't think it's fair to say I faded into the background when I was the fourth highest poster on Day 3...

Why would the scum take UB?

Potential access to steal something like the Double Voter or a Vengeful, etc.?

[ghug]

I would also like Chaqa to tell us why he spent a considerable amount of time and energy shouting at the GM about his strange interpretation of the UB rules and then, as soon as the GM confirmed the obvious, that Chaqa was wrong, he faded into the background and didn't contribute much more. That was a lot of fuss about fuck all, wasn't it, Chaqa?

This feels like scum Jamie.

Maybe... but also, Chaqa's yelling at the GM and wasting time was weird, and I'm inclined to agree with what Jamie is saying.

No, it was very authentic-feeling frustration over a vaguery in the setup, which is something Jamie has a long track-record of doing himself, and it's telling that Jamie's harping on it instead of actual scumhunting/voting/actual game of mafia sorts of actions.

[dargorygel]

Because I think UB is a role scum could have and was pretty sure it wasn't being treated as written, and it irked me. Worcej and I had a discussion about it offline and while we disagree, I decided to shut up about it.

I don't think it's fair to say I faded into the background when I was the fourth highest poster on Day 3...

Why would the scum take UB?

Potential access to steal something like the Double Voter or a Vengeful, etc.?

It would be VERY much out of their control. But maybe they like random stuff.

[ghug]

I am not thrilled with Maniac's game going all the way to EoD. Others have said this, though. And I do not 'get' his game (although I am thinking that he is charting people's choices/reactions... but I don't see the strong value.) But his game DID cause me to think about seth.
It took until page 56 for him to do more than call people 'null.' He said there that folk were ‘on his radar.’ But we haven’t seen radar/sonar/star trek sensors at all so far.
#1118 Post by seth24c » Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:49 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:48 pm
seth24c wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 28, 2020 2:47 pm
I'm here. Still haven't been convinced on either wagon.
You must vote.

Who are your top scumreads?

Do you even have one?
All three of the top wagons have been on my radar. Can't decide whether flums reaction test was malicious or just a bad idea.


A few pages later in post 1354, he calls rdrivera ‘scummy.’ I cannot find any other reads that lead to anything but null, or at best, 'iffy,' or 'on his radar.'

This is not hedgy. This is not declaring anything, let alone declaring and backpedaling.

This is a game that feels a lot more like pure vanilla, yes? We have roles, but deducing them does not discover alignment. I think seth is scum who is trying to fly under the radar… even his own.

##VOTE SETH24C

This is really interesting to me.

This was over the time period I didn't see anything, so this is the first I hear of it.

It's a pretty strong case imo, and it just gets better.

Soon after this is posted, seth gets online, sees it, and this happens.

Bo is on my scumread list now because I also think he tried to townslip a couple pages back.

This happens as Maniac's game pushes people onto Bo_, and this satement just feels very forced.

Seth follows with other statements, but all of them seem sort of the same; they're all opinions that other people have recently had. I would be open to voting Seth tomorrow.

In fact, scratching my earlier opinion, Seth might even take the top spot of kgray.

I will say that that Seth post looks very bad with bo's flip.

[TheMadMonarch]

Because I think UB is a role scum could have and was pretty sure it wasn't being treated as written, and it irked me. Worcej and I had a discussion about it offline and while we disagree, I decided to shut up about it.

I don't think it's fair to say I faded into the background when I was the fourth highest poster on Day 3...

Why would the scum take UB?

Potential access to steal something like the Double Voter or a Vengeful, etc.?

But that is very unlikely. Of all the roles:

Tree Stump (+2)
Fruit Vendor (If Mafia, can't be performed alongside a factional action) (+1)
Public Vanilla (is publicly confirmed not to have any power at the start of Day 1) (0)
2-Shot Neighborizer (0)
1-Shot Gladiator (0)
Voyeur (-2)
1-Shot Follower (-3)
Even-Night Tracker (-4)
Odd-Night Tracker (-5)
Universal Backup (-5)
Non-consecutive Night Commuter (can't be performed alongside a factional action) (-5)
Modified Faith Healer (fails if both Faith Healers target the same person, 100% success rate otherwise) (-5)
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Vengeful (-25)
Restless Spirit (-35)
Double-voter (-45)

Bolded are the ones more expensive than the UB, i.e. those that the UB would help you get (otherwise, you could just buy the thing you want).

Of these, only 4 can actually be picked up by the UB:
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Double-voter (-45)

which means, the UB is very likely to not get something better, so you would have been better off just buying the thing you wanted (it would probably be cheaper), rather than crossing your fingers and hoping. It would also cause you to have it from the get-go, rather than waiting.

[ghug]

Why would the scum take UB?

Potential access to steal something like the Double Voter or a Vengeful, etc.?

But that is very unlikely. Of all the roles:

Tree Stump (+2)
Fruit Vendor (If Mafia, can't be performed alongside a factional action) (+1)
Public Vanilla (is publicly confirmed not to have any power at the start of Day 1) (0)
2-Shot Neighborizer (0)
1-Shot Gladiator (0)
Voyeur (-2)
1-Shot Follower (-3)
Even-Night Tracker (-4)
Odd-Night Tracker (-5)
Universal Backup (-5)
Non-consecutive Night Commuter (can't be performed alongside a factional action) (-5)
Modified Faith Healer (fails if both Faith Healers target the same person, 100% success rate otherwise) (-5)
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Vengeful (-25)
Restless Spirit (-35)
Double-voter (-45)

Bolded are the ones more expensive than the UB, i.e. those that the UB would help you get (otherwise, you could just buy the thing you want).

Of these, only 4 can actually be picked up by the UB:
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Double-voter (-45)

which means, the UB is very likely to not get something better, so you would have been better off just buying the thing you wanted (it would probably be cheaper), rather than crossing your fingers and hoping. It would also cause you to have it from the get-go, rather than waiting.

It's equal to or barely more expensive than the next several roles, though, while giving a shot at the expensive ones.

[TheMadMonarch]

Potential access to steal something like the Double Voter or a Vengeful, etc.?

But that is very unlikely. Of all the roles:

Tree Stump (+2)
Fruit Vendor (If Mafia, can't be performed alongside a factional action) (+1)
Public Vanilla (is publicly confirmed not to have any power at the start of Day 1) (0)
2-Shot Neighborizer (0)
1-Shot Gladiator (0)
Voyeur (-2)
1-Shot Follower (-3)
Even-Night Tracker (-4)
Odd-Night Tracker (-5)
Universal Backup (-5)
Non-consecutive Night Commuter (can't be performed alongside a factional action) (-5)
Modified Faith Healer (fails if both Faith Healers target the same person, 100% success rate otherwise) (-5)
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Vengeful (-25)
Restless Spirit (-35)
Double-voter (-45)

Bolded are the ones more expensive than the UB, i.e. those that the UB would help you get (otherwise, you could just buy the thing you want).

Of these, only 4 can actually be picked up by the UB:
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Double-voter (-45)

which means, the UB is very likely to not get something better, so you would have been better off just buying the thing you wanted (it would probably be cheaper), rather than crossing your fingers and hoping. It would also cause you to have it from the get-go, rather than waiting.

It's equal to or barely more expensive than the next several roles, though, while giving a shot at the expensive ones.

4/14, 1/7.

It's not much of a shot.

[TheMadMonarch]

But that is very unlikely. Of all the roles:

Tree Stump (+2)
Fruit Vendor (If Mafia, can't be performed alongside a factional action) (+1)
Public Vanilla (is publicly confirmed not to have any power at the start of Day 1) (0)
2-Shot Neighborizer (0)
1-Shot Gladiator (0)
Voyeur (-2)
1-Shot Follower (-3)
Even-Night Tracker (-4)
Odd-Night Tracker (-5)
Universal Backup (-5)
Non-consecutive Night Commuter (can't be performed alongside a factional action) (-5)
Modified Faith Healer (fails if both Faith Healers target the same person, 100% success rate otherwise) (-5)
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Vengeful (-25)
Restless Spirit (-35)
Double-voter (-45)

Bolded are the ones more expensive than the UB, i.e. those that the UB would help you get (otherwise, you could just buy the thing you want).

Of these, only 4 can actually be picked up by the UB:
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Double-voter (-45)

which means, the UB is very likely to not get something better, so you would have been better off just buying the thing you wanted (it would probably be cheaper), rather than crossing your fingers and hoping. It would also cause you to have it from the get-go, rather than waiting.

It's equal to or barely more expensive than the next several roles, though, while giving a shot at the expensive ones.

4/14, 2/7.

It's not much of a shot.

[ghug]

But that is very unlikely. Of all the roles:

Tree Stump (+2)
Fruit Vendor (If Mafia, can't be performed alongside a factional action) (+1)
Public Vanilla (is publicly confirmed not to have any power at the start of Day 1) (0)
2-Shot Neighborizer (0)
1-Shot Gladiator (0)
Voyeur (-2)
1-Shot Follower (-3)
Even-Night Tracker (-4)
Odd-Night Tracker (-5)
Universal Backup (-5)
Non-consecutive Night Commuter (can't be performed alongside a factional action) (-5)
Modified Faith Healer (fails if both Faith Healers target the same person, 100% success rate otherwise) (-5)
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Vengeful (-25)
Restless Spirit (-35)
Double-voter (-45)

Bolded are the ones more expensive than the UB, i.e. those that the UB would help you get (otherwise, you could just buy the thing you want).

Of these, only 4 can actually be picked up by the UB:
1-shot Night-Governor (target can't be voted next day) (-10)
Diarist (-10)
Modified Faith Healer (-15)
Double-voter (-45)

which means, the UB is very likely to not get something better, so you would have been better off just buying the thing you wanted (it would probably be cheaper), rather than crossing your fingers and hoping. It would also cause you to have it from the get-go, rather than waiting.

It's equal to or barely more expensive than the next several roles, though, while giving a shot at the expensive ones.

4/14, 2/7.

It's not much of a shot.

I think it's actually out of 13, but 4/13 good, 3 or 4/13 bad, the rest neutral is a pretty decent gamble. Most prognosticators think Trump's chances of winning tonight are about a third as high and I am nonetheless terrified.

[dargorygel]

But the first likely death would be a daykill. And a power role would claim and not die. Which might help them catch a pr for a night kill, but not be useful for UB.

[rdrivera2005]

So, we are royally screwed. Sorry Bo, really thought you were scum.

Not counting with PRs, we start the day with 7/4 (more likely) or 8/4 if we count Flum. So, we have only one misskill left, unless a PR made some great choices.

[TheMadMonarch]

So, we are royally screwed. Sorry Bo, really thought you were scum.

Not counting with PRs, we start the day with 7/4 (more likely) or 8/4 if we count Flum. So, we have only one misskill left, unless a PR made some great choices.

Which PRs and what excellent choices?

[Vecna]

did I just really wake up in a world where trump is winning again?