M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[ghug]

@ghug, sub-optimal or not. It's the only game in town. Town will make it's own mind up about you trying to scupper it.

What do you mean by "it's the only game in town"?

Nobody's going to kill you. That would be moronic. I'm going to spend the whole day pushing my scumreads instead of wasting it on your bad game that limits options to a bunch of my townreads and is ultimately a boon for scum if you follow through on using it to select your target.

[worcej]

Didn’t we already talk about this and determine UB is Flum’s role not Bozo’s?

Nope, the GM confirmed it's not the spirit.

The fuck.

##CallGM: why is one role (Vengeful) being ruled "as written" when another (Spirit) isn't?

GM Note:
Not sure what you're referring to with the spirit not being referred as written. Can you elaborate?

[worcej]

Sorry, that should be the Universal Backup isn't:

You are the Universal Backup. You will assume the powers of the first person to be eliminated. If the person did not have powers, your ability does not trigger. If the role had charges, you gain the same amount of charges as the player had when they were eliminated. If the role had no charges when they were eliminated, you do not gain their role.

So, by this writing, the Universal Backup should either be:
1. A Vengeful Spirit who will have a vote upon death OR
2. A VT who will never become anything

No reading of this role PM allows for it to be the Governor...

GM Note:
Assuming this is the clarification, the reason the UB did not become the restless spirit is covered in the last sentence of the UB role.

The RS's 'charge' was used upon death. You cannot die multiple times, so because it triggered at death, there was no 'additional charge' for the UB to take over. Make sense?

[worcej]

Bananas are terrible.

##CALLGM If the first role eliminated has no powers, does the backup get the next one, or become a vanilla?

GM Note:
The UB does not trigger if the role had no charges left or if it has no powers.

This means the UB would never become the Public Vanilla, the Treestump, Vengeful, or Restless Spirit.

[worcej]

O please do tell me where

It is answered in the OP, on page 1, Ghug, where the Universal Backup's role PM is displayed:

"You are the Universal Backup. You will assume the powers of the first person to be eliminated. If the person did not have powers, your ability does not trigger. If the role had charges, you gain the same amount of charges as the player had when they were eliminated. If the role had no charges when they were eliminated, you do not gain their role."

You are the Universal Backup. You will assume the powers of the first person to be eliminated. If the person did not have powers, your ability does not trigger. If the role had charges, you gain the same amount of charges as the player had when they were eliminated. If the role had no charges when they were eliminated, you do not gain their role.

Highlighted what I think is the critical detail

GM Note:
The sentence you highlighted is generally true. However the following sentences in the role description qualified scenarios where it wouldn't trigger.

[ghug]

##CALLGM

Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't feel like you've resolved the ambiguity. If the UB's ability doesn't trigger on the first player eliminated because that player doesn't have abilities, does it trigger on the next player eliminated, or never?

[seth24c]

Sorry for my absence. I had a busy weekend and I am catching up now.

[Jamiet99uk]

##CALLGM

Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't feel like you've resolved the ambiguity. If the UB's ability doesn't trigger on the first player eliminated because that player doesn't have abilities, does it trigger on the next player eliminated, or never?

I bet you a family-sized quiche lorraine that its the former, and not the latter.

[Chaqa]

It is answered in the OP, on page 1, Ghug, where the Universal Backup's role PM is displayed:

"You are the Universal Backup. You will assume the powers of the first person to be eliminated. If the person did not have powers, your ability does not trigger. If the role had charges, you gain the same amount of charges as the player had when they were eliminated. If the role had no charges when they were eliminated, you do not gain their role."

You are the Universal Backup. You will assume the powers of the first person to be eliminated. If the person did not have powers, your ability does not trigger. If the role had charges, you gain the same amount of charges as the player had when they were eliminated. If the role had no charges when they were eliminated, you do not gain their role.

Highlighted what I think is the critical detail

GM Note:
The sentence you highlighted is generally true. However the following sentences in the role description qualified scenarios where it wouldn't trigger.

##ProtestGM: Then as it is written the UB should ever gain powers. Nothing allows for them to get the “next” set of powers.

[ghug]

##CALLGM

Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't feel like you've resolved the ambiguity. If the UB's ability doesn't trigger on the first player eliminated because that player doesn't have abilities, does it trigger on the next player eliminated, or never?

I bet you a family-sized quiche lorraine that its the former, and not the latter.

I would make the same bet, but I'd rather we confirm it.

[Jamiet99uk]

##ProtestGM: Then as it is written the UB should ever gain powers. Nothing allows for them to get the “next” set of powers.

This is becoming very tedious indeed, Chaqa.

If you detest the setup and hold the GM in the contempt that you are displaying, I suggest you ask to sub out.

Otherwise you are clogging up the thread with an endless mechanics argument that is not helping anyone.

[Maniac]

I don't think there has been any voting in the last hour.

Chaqa still has 3 votes and Seth 2 votes.

Ghug & Bunny are hereby removed from my list. It's between Chaqa and Seth as to who I take with me at EOD.

See you all in 2 hours.

[kgray]

GM Note:
I would think the backup does not inherit the spirit's ability, since it uses it's ability on death and the backup doesn't inherit abilities that are out of charges.

/user/teacon7/gifs/SW/DarthVader/Nooooooooooooooooooo.WAV

##CallGM so does the UB still get to back up something else? or is the UB now useless?

The UB never can be wasted in this setup. Go read the role.

Can we please move on now?

[Chaqa]

##ProtestGM: Then as it is written the UB should ever gain powers. Nothing allows for them to get the “next” set of powers.

This is becoming very tedious indeed, Chaqa.

If you detest the setup and hold the GM in the contempt that you are displaying, I suggest you ask to sub out.

Otherwise you are clogging up the thread with an endless mechanics argument that is not helping anyone.

It’s absolutely astonishing to me that YOU of all people aren’t trying to get clarity on this.

[kgray]

I don't think there has been any voting in the last hour.

Chaqa still has 3 votes and Seth 2 votes.

Ghug & Bunny are hereby removed from my list. It's between Chaqa and Seth as to who I take with me at EOD.

See you all in 2 hours.

Why did you take ghug off the list?

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't think there has been any voting in the last hour.

Chaqa still has 3 votes and Seth 2 votes.

Ghug & Bunny are hereby removed from my list. It's between Chaqa and Seth as to who I take with me at EOD.

See you all in 2 hours.

That's fine with me; I think both of them could be scum.

[Chaqa]

I don't think there has been any voting in the last hour.

Chaqa still has 3 votes and Seth 2 votes.

Ghug & Bunny are hereby removed from my list. It's between Chaqa and Seth as to who I take with me at EOD.

See you all in 2 hours.

lol I’m so glad you’re letting five voters determine this

Anyone else find this whole thing forced and random?

[Jamiet99uk]

##ProtestGM: Then as it is written the UB should ever gain powers. Nothing allows for them to get the “next” set of powers.

This is becoming very tedious indeed, Chaqa.

If you detest the setup and hold the GM in the contempt that you are displaying, I suggest you ask to sub out.

Otherwise you are clogging up the thread with an endless mechanics argument that is not helping anyone.

It’s absolutely astonishing to me that YOU of all people aren’t trying to get clarity on this.

The role is clear to me as it stands. I believe my interpretation of the role PM is the only sensible one, and is in accordance with the way that role is listed on the two main Mafia Wikis. I do not feel further clarification was needed, and I am annoyed at your ceaseless whinging and shouting and hectoring the GM. You are being an ass and I urge you to stop.

[Jamiet99uk]

I don't think there has been any voting in the last hour.

Chaqa still has 3 votes and Seth 2 votes.

Ghug & Bunny are hereby removed from my list. It's between Chaqa and Seth as to who I take with me at EOD.

See you all in 2 hours.

lol I’m so glad you’re letting five voters determine this

Anyone else find this whole thing forced and random?

You might say it was a little bit.... scummy, even?

[Chaqa]

This is becoming very tedious indeed, Chaqa.

If you detest the setup and hold the GM in the contempt that you are displaying, I suggest you ask to sub out.

Otherwise you are clogging up the thread with an endless mechanics argument that is not helping anyone.

It’s absolutely astonishing to me that YOU of all people aren’t trying to get clarity on this.

The role is clear to me as it stands. I believe my interpretation of the role PM is the only sensible one, and is in accordance with the way that role is listed on the two main Mafia Wikis. I do not feel further clarification was needed, and I am annoyed at your ceaseless whinging and shouting and hectoring the GM. You are being an ass and I urge you to stop.

And yet the Vengeful behaving differently is fine with you?

The Jamie I know would be calling for blood over this. Is there perhaps some alignment reason you’re okay with this interpretation? Hmmmm