M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[kgray]

hmm...unless Vecna scum and scum have a healer?

Another option is town shot at town!vecna...

Is it possible town killed teacon and scum tried to kill Vecna?

I'm taking on faith that Vecna was saved since a healer would know he saved him. That said...there are 2 healers, and they might EACH think the other saved him...

That'd be tricky...

You think the healers don't know who they visited?

I think healers don't know who the other healer visited. So if Vecna claims a healer visited him, then Healer A would assume that Healer B did the visit and Healer B would assume that Healer A did the visit.

What are you even talking about? The healer who did not visit Vecna would obviously know that they did not visit Vecna and are therefore "the other healer."

[worcej]

##CALLGM How do mafia actions appear to the Voyeur?

Killing (mafia kill), Investigation (Rolecop), Roleblock (duh), and Protective (vest giving).

[worcej]

##CALL GM how does the Governor work? Can we not vote the target at all? Is there an announcement? If the target is the leading vote getter, then does the 2nd place automatically die or does nobody die?

The person they target will have a vote count of 0 in the final votes for the phase. If they were the leading wagon, then the next highest would get the day kill 'honors'.

[worcej]

##CALL GM in the case that the diarist targeted the non-consecutive night commuter, what would they have been told?

'Nights'

[bo_sox48]

EOD2
To be frank, I was completely out of it. As well as forgetting to cast a vote, I was not processing the things I was reading. As I mentioned before, the only thing I took away from Day 2 is the I don't trust Bo_ any more. I don't remember why, I just don't trust him.

In that, a lot of unexplained votes for Maniac are coming in, what's that about?

If you have read EOD2, why don't you know why Maniac is getting votes?

[bo_sox48]

Some thoughts on EOD:

Vecna/Maniac/Chaqa all independently cast their vote to break the tie between Dargo and HR by voting HR.

There seemed to be a large contingent of "not HR" that had a split vote on Dargo, Maniac, and Teacon. Previously on Kgray too, and also Jamie.

bo was around, and while he declared he thought HR was town, declined to vote Dargo.


If Dargo is town, then I wouldn't be surprised if bo is scum (I'd have said the same of Teacon, but RIP...)

Likewise, if Dargo is scum, I'd be surprised if bo is scum because I'd expect him to save his teammate. However this makes Vecna/Maniac/Chaqa all look more suspicious. If Dargo is scum, then we'll certainly find at least 1 if not 2 there.

Vecna/Maniac/Chaqa all crossposted their vote on HR, yes, but Maniac claimed some time ago that his was not independent of Vecna's vote. He said he wanted not only to break the tie but cast a second vote on HR to ensure the double vote could not have tied things up. I thought this was bullshit, because like you I deduced that, since their votes all occurred within the span of a single refresh of my page, they crossposted.

I was around, and I did decline to vote darg, but only because I was waiting until XX:59 to do so. By then, HR had gone up 7-4, and voting darg would have put the vote within the realm of a tie again. I did not want that, even if a townread died.

What do you make of the degradation of the wagons on kgray and Jamie?

[Chaqa]

OK...EOD2 vote progression. Starting with dargo's move from Jamie to HR with 1:46 left.

I can relate.
Jamie"s reaction to being one of the wagons us to work on his PhD. That looks townie to me. I could vote for teacon again, or Maniac or HR. (Bozo too, but it for "replacement logic" and omgus.) Sheeping kgray(I like her cases) though, and going to HR. He and Maniac are at the same radar level.

##vote Hellenic Riot

Now who will jump?

This makes it 4 (HEL) - 3(MAN) - 2(JAM) - 2(KGR)

An hour later ghug is the next vote after responding to me about whether I'd join him on kgray (where he wasn't)

She had very open concoctions and pushed them strongly in our last game, when she was town. I'm seeing none of that here.

I would be open to killing darg as well.

4(HEL) - 3(MAN) - 2(KGR) - 2(TEA) -2 (DAR)

Next move is 5 minutes later by rdr

Damo got a pass until D3, so ##vote Maniac

I probably won't be around at EOD, I have a tennis game at the same time and I will be leaving to club 15 minutes to EOD, might be able to check before game start butv can't count on it.

Damo got a pass until today, so rdr tied the vote. It seemed like his vote (and mine, and many others I have not looked at) were voting for "not HR".

4(HEL) -4 (MAN) - 2(KGR) - 2(TEA) -2 (DAR)

10 minutes later (30 to go in the day)
ghug moves to kgray, responding to a comment of hers. He says "this is a fair point" and then votes her.

4(HEL) - 4(MAN) - 3 (KGR) - 2 (TEA)

Nothing happens for 20 minutes (vote wise), and with 11 to go HR naked votes dargo. This is very interesting, and should have confirmed that either he's a next level scum player or was not willing to vote Maniac to survive (nor to stay on kgray and get those to switch--nor to push Teacon to 3rd). It seems his only scumread of the possible wagons was dargo, with me be the only other voter.

4(HEL) -4(MAN) -2 (KGR/TEA/DAR)

Ghug instantly posts that this dargo feels like his old scummate dargo, and moves back there from kgray:

4(HEL) -4(MAN) - 3(DAR) -2 (TEA)

HR posts this explanation "As I mentioned above, I don't think kgray & darg are scum together, and I think the way Darg has disappeared since being called out for his vote is pretty damning." (Note: in retrospect this reasoning was incorrec, I'm glad Dargo is doing better. See @bo...things happen to people, I worry when they disappear).

With 6 minutes to go and in response to this Chaqa post "Okay I'm focused and here til EoD.

I would vote HR over Darg.

The last like five times Fargo was scum, he slipped up within the first day or so... he hasn't done that yet, so either he's not scum, or it's just a matter of time. I really think it would be wasteful to vote for him."

kgray says that's good enough for her to vote dargo.

4 (HEL/DAR) - 3 (MAN) - 2 (TEA)

Nothing happens to break this tie until Vecna, and then immediately Maniac and Chaqa vote for HEL. Bo_Sox meanwhile declined to move to dargo despite being convinced HEL was town (Hel called him on this).

The Vecna/Maniac/Chaqa votes were so close together that Chaqa claimed he was ninja'd. So I think we should consider all 3 of them as having been the 5th vote.

Thoughts to follow.

I just want to clarify I said that at one hour and six minutes to EoD. Timezones.

[bo_sox48]

His vote to break the tie in the last minute for HR doesn't look good (especially if Dargo is scum).

Ok then, just to be safe.

##VOTE Maniac


If this is the reason they're after Maniac, why aren't Vecna and Chaqa in the line of fire?

That is not the reason that I and others went after Maniac. You should probably actually read the thread if you're going to say you scumread me but don't know why instead of claiming you read it but having no clue what is happening.

[bo_sox48]

##Vote kgray

This vote is unlikely to change. I will only change it if all three of ghug, bo_sox, and Jamiet agree I should (though they don't have to agree to change it to the same person).

lmao ##vote chaqa

Is this omgus or what

[ghug]

Please would you actually make some effort to read what has already been demanded before demanding a thousand fewer demands from the demander?

Are you castigating me or Jamie? I am taking his advice to play like I have before, and reading more. I have time tonight. I have questions when I read more.

I was making fun of Jamie for his misplaced critique of you.

[kgray]

##Vote kgray

This vote is unlikely to change. I will only change it if all three of ghug, bo_sox, and Jamiet agree I should (though they don't have to agree to change it to the same person).

lmao ##vote chaqa

Is this omgus or what

You, ghug and Jamie should just tell him he should change it. I don't care if you scumread me or not, you can vote me too, he can keep it on me, whatever. But make him be accountable for his votes.

[ghug]

##Vote kgray

This vote is unlikely to change. I will only change it if all three of ghug, bo_sox, and Jamiet agree I should (though they don't have to agree to change it to the same person).

lmao ##vote chaqa

This is funny?

It'd be funny if it weren't so offensive...

[kgray]

lmao ##vote chaqa

This is funny?

It'd be funny if it weren't so offensive...

You really townread Chaqa?

[BunnyGo]

You think the healers don't know who they visited?

I think healers don't know who the other healer visited. So if Vecna claims a healer visited him, then Healer A would assume that Healer B did the visit and Healer B would assume that Healer A did the visit.

What are you even talking about? The healer who did not visit Vecna would obviously know that they did not visit Vecna and are therefore "the other healer."

FFS Can you read or think?! Is what I wrote that unclear?! I'm suggesting that him FAKE CLAIMING he was visited by a healer and saved would be baller. Because each healer would think the other was the one who visited.

[BunnyGo]

<snip>
I just want to clarify I said that at one hour and six minutes to EoD. Timezones.

Wait. Are all my times off?!

[ghug]

This is funny?

It'd be funny if it weren't so offensive...

You really townread Chaqa?

You don't understand how little Chaqa needs to do to make me think he cares more than normal.

[ghug]

I think healers don't know who the other healer visited. So if Vecna claims a healer visited him, then Healer A would assume that Healer B did the visit and Healer B would assume that Healer A did the visit.

What are you even talking about? The healer who did not visit Vecna would obviously know that they did not visit Vecna and are therefore "the other healer."

FFS Can you read or think?! Is what I wrote that unclear?! I'm suggesting that him FAKE CLAIMING he was visited by a healer and saved would be baller. Because each healer would think the other was the one who visited.

This seemed very clear to me, so I'm not sure why mini-me didn't get it.

[ghug]

It'd be funny if it weren't so offensive...

You really townread Chaqa?

You don't understand how little Chaqa needs to do to make me think he cares more than normal.

My read of what he's saying is that he's willing to stop his push if a strong townread tells him to, which almost makes sense in a game with like twelve cops.

[kgray]

I think healers don't know who the other healer visited. So if Vecna claims a healer visited him, then Healer A would assume that Healer B did the visit and Healer B would assume that Healer A did the visit.

What are you even talking about? The healer who did not visit Vecna would obviously know that they did not visit Vecna and are therefore "the other healer."

FFS Can you read or think?! Is what I wrote that unclear?! I'm suggesting that him FAKE CLAIMING he was visited by a healer and saved would be baller. Because each healer would think the other was the one who visited.

You're questioning whether I can read or think after misunderstanding your ramblings in the same post where you speculated that town killed teacon... classic

[kgray]

It'd be funny if it weren't so offensive...

You really townread Chaqa?

You don't understand how little Chaqa needs to do to make me think he cares more than normal.

Is him caring more than normal towny?